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Author Topic: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?  (Read 5687 times)

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Offline (Evan)

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SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« on: March 01, 2009, 09:37:44 PM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!

Offline jlykos

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 12:55:05 AM »
I would put the external preamp at the minimum and run line-in to the D50.  Adjust the D50 levels accordingly.  I am not familiar with the SP preamps, but if they have individual gain controls for the left and right mics, you may want to slightly adjust the gain on the preamp so that one channel is 0 and the other is +1 or something like that to equalize the levels if they are uneven.
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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 03:19:04 AM »
Well the way the SP pre's work is that there's three gain switches. High, low, and no gain. Then there's a knob that controls the output of the preamp...I don't think the knob controls the gain at all.

Offline jlykos

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 12:02:21 PM »
In that case, use the preamp as a battery box and run it with no gain, line-in to the D50 and adjust the levels on the D50.  That is what I do with my current rig; the PSP-2 is used more like a really nice-sounding battery box than to supply gain.  With my mics and setup, I will start the show with the level set on 4 on the D50 and then adjust upwards or downwards from there.
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"I have no views," Mickey Melchiondo, known as Dean Ween, said in a philosophical moment. "I am way too stupid. I have no strong feelings about anything. I'm really into television and the computer. I believe everything I see on TV and read on the Internet."

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 12:07:22 PM »
Well the way the SP pre's work is that there's three gain switches. High, low, and no gain. Then there's a knob that controls the output of the preamp...I don't think the knob controls the gain at all.

That preamp should be run at the middle setting for loud stuff. And the volume at max.

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Offline illconditioned

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 12:36:15 PM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 01:04:51 PM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


The internal preamp is about as good as the R09HR.
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Offline (Evan)

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 01:09:23 PM »
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


I'm using AT943's. I was under the impression that the preamp would handle higher levels better than the mic input of the D50....

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 01:15:29 PM »
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


I'm using AT943's. I was under the impression that the preamp would handle higher levels better than the mic input of the D50....

That depends on the amount of gain you need. The more gain you need the less headroom you have.
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Offline (Evan)

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 01:35:47 PM »
I was planning on using the LOW setting to record live musical theatre.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 01:36:43 PM »
I was planning on using the LOW setting to record live musical theatre.

What mics are you using?
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Offline (Evan)

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 01:42:29 PM »

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 01:50:45 PM »
What mics are you using?

AT943's

Ok well they are not a very sensitive mic.. You will need about 20 db from a preamp and the rest you can get from your D50. Try that.

Chris
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Offline (Evan)

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 03:10:08 PM »
So set the preamp to the low (which is around 20db), then turn the output all the way up and adjust with D50?

Offline Belexes

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 09:33:31 PM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


But isn't the line input have less S/N than the mic input? I am running a 9100 before the D50 and going line-in. (CA-14 mics or AT853s)
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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2009, 05:25:00 PM »
So have I understood correctly that I should turn the output of the pramp all the way up, and adjust the levels from the D50?

Offline dave570

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2009, 07:33:27 PM »
Here's what I do when taping low-pro. I raise the recorder levels to 35-45 and then put my recorder on "lock" mode so I don't accidently stop it. Unfortunately, lock mode makes the recorder levels control un-usable. I use the pre-amp knob to adjust the levels and either set the SP preamp to L/H/off depending on the music. If I didn't do it this way, I would have to un-lock the recorder and hope I don't stop it by pressing the stop button when taping.  I don't about you but if you are subject to "oh sh*t" moments like me, locking the recorder after it starts recording is ths safest thing to do. For open taping, I would not do it this way. So it depends.





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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2009, 07:39:38 PM »
Well the D50 has an analogue dial to control recording levels, so the levels are still adjustable when the recorder is locked :/

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2009, 12:40:16 AM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


I'm going to give this a try tomorrow Richard at an outdoor festival.  I'm gonna run my CA-14's directly into my D-50 via "mic-in".  It seems that since battery life in a non-issue as well as an incredible internal pre-amp, no sense not to.  I feel like many of my recent recordings have been strangely sub-par when going the standard rout: line-in and CA pre-amps.  Any ill effects utilizing the 20db attenuator switch on the D-50 if it get's too loud?  I should think not, hope not.

David
Mics: Schoeps MK41; AT853(3-wire)(c,o); AT943(c,o); Audix M1290 (h); AT933(3-wire)(c,o); AT831(3-wire)(c); Shure 185(c); Sony ECM-166BMP (o); Sony ECM-166BC (c); CA-14(c); CA-11(c,o)
Preamps: BabyNbox; Naiant Tinybox v2.3
Recorders: Sony PCM-A10; Sony PCM-M10; Sony PCM-D50; Roland R-07; Edirol R-09HR; Sony MZ-RH1
Video:  Panasonic HDC-TM700 HD; Canon PowerShot SX50 HD; Sony DSC-HX50V

Offline illconditioned

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2009, 01:23:33 AM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


I'm going to give this a try tomorrow Richard at an outdoor festival.  I'm gonna run my CA-14's directly into my D-50 via "mic-in".  It seems that since battery life in a non-issue as well as an incredible internal pre-amp, no sense not to.  I feel like many of my recent recordings have been strangely sub-par when going the standard rout: line-in and CA pre-amps.  Any ill effects utilizing the 20db attenuator switch on the D-50 if it get's too loud?  I should think not, hope not.

David
For ambient I use approx level #5, mic in.  For concerts I use approx #5 with the 20dB pad.

Ideally line in would avoid a bit of mic gain, but then you don't get plug in power.  If I was running a battery box I *might* try running that to line in for loud shows, but really, mic in on this thing is so good, I don't see the need.  Plug in power is just so convenient for me.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Falconidave

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2009, 11:37:42 AM »
Wow what a big difference.  I ran my CA-14's directly in the "mic-in" input and used the 20db pad switch.  I was sitting in virtually the same spot as I've been the last 3 years, and looks like the same PA system.  The bass volume is always heavy in this festival, so I turned on the LCF at 150hz.  Had it set at 75hz for the opening band and it was slightly boomy in the recording.  Well, the results of the final band(Rick Springfield) pull turned out great.  I had to do some more post volume boosting than usual, but no biggy there, using 24/96 makes that possible.  I am amazed at how much better it sounds when really cranked up, ZERO distortion.  Thanks for the advice Richard. I'll be upping it to DIME later if anyone is interested.

David
Mics: Schoeps MK41; AT853(3-wire)(c,o); AT943(c,o); Audix M1290 (h); AT933(3-wire)(c,o); AT831(3-wire)(c); Shure 185(c); Sony ECM-166BMP (o); Sony ECM-166BC (c); CA-14(c); CA-11(c,o)
Preamps: BabyNbox; Naiant Tinybox v2.3
Recorders: Sony PCM-A10; Sony PCM-M10; Sony PCM-D50; Roland R-07; Edirol R-09HR; Sony MZ-RH1
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Offline illconditioned

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2009, 02:31:57 PM »
Wow what a big difference.  I ran my CA-14's directly in the "mic-in" input and used the 20db pad switch.  I was sitting in virtually the same spot as I've been the last 3 years, and looks like the same PA system.  The bass volume is always heavy in this festival, so I turned on the LCF at 150hz.  Had it set at 75hz for the opening band and it was slightly boomy in the recording.  Well, the results of the final band(Rick Springfield) pull turned out great.  I had to do some more post volume boosting than usual, but no biggy there, using 24/96 makes that possible.  I am amazed at how much better it sounds when really cranked up, ZERO distortion.  Thanks for the advice Richard. I'll be upping it to DIME later if anyone is interested.

David
Glad it worked for you.

Yeah, *if* you're careful with the plug in power wiring (4.7 or 2.2k mod or whatever), this recorder is top-notch, both for ambient and rock recording.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline Dede2002

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2009, 02:34:12 PM »
So I'm just got an SP-PREAMP for my Sony D50, and I was wondering which unit I should use for adjusting the recording level? Should I put the D50 on maximum, and adjust the level with the preamp? Or put the preamp level on maximum and adjust it with the D50?

Also, I'm going to be using the "Low" option most of the time on the preamp, but there may be times when I just use it as a battery box. So I would ask the same question for that case. Adjust level on D50 or preamp?

Thanks!
What mics are you using?  I would never put a preamp in front of the D50.  The internal preamp is great, and "less is more", so don't add anything to the signal chain.  My best recordings are made with mics directly into the recorder (plug in power).

  Richard


Agreed.
You don't have to use a preamp just because you own one  ;)
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Offline Falconidave

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2009, 03:46:01 PM »
Wow what a big difference.  I ran my CA-14's directly in the "mic-in" input and used the 20db pad switch.  I was sitting in virtually the same spot as I've been the last 3 years, and looks like the same PA system.  The bass volume is always heavy in this festival, so I turned on the LCF at 150hz.  Had it set at 75hz for the opening band and it was slightly boomy in the recording.  Well, the results of the final band(Rick Springfield) pull turned out great.  I had to do some more post volume boosting than usual, but no biggy there, using 24/96 makes that possible.  I am amazed at how much better it sounds when really cranked up, ZERO distortion.  Thanks for the advice Richard. I'll be upping it to DIME later if anyone is interested.

David
Glad it worked for you.

Yeah, *if* you're careful with the plug in power wiring (4.7 or 2.2k mod or whatever), this recorder is top-notch, both for ambient and rock recording.

  Richard


What do you mean by "careful"?  The only modded mics I own are the recently purchased ATU853A's from SP, and the AT853's(4.7k) I got from you in a trade awhile back.  Will those work okay with the D50?  Thanks
Mics: Schoeps MK41; AT853(3-wire)(c,o); AT943(c,o); Audix M1290 (h); AT933(3-wire)(c,o); AT831(3-wire)(c); Shure 185(c); Sony ECM-166BMP (o); Sony ECM-166BC (c); CA-14(c); CA-11(c,o)
Preamps: BabyNbox; Naiant Tinybox v2.3
Recorders: Sony PCM-A10; Sony PCM-M10; Sony PCM-D50; Roland R-07; Edirol R-09HR; Sony MZ-RH1
Video:  Panasonic HDC-TM700 HD; Canon PowerShot SX50 HD; Sony DSC-HX50V

Offline Arni99

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2009, 03:51:45 PM »
Although I got the SP-PREAMP a little while ago, I'll be using my DPA 4061 + bbox on my D50's MIC-IN with the -20db setting for Tommy Emmanuel...acoustic amplified guitar in a few days.
I actually NEVER used my preamp except for home-recording-tests. 
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2009, 04:28:56 PM »
Although I got the SP-PREAMP a little while ago, I'll be using my DPA 4061 + bbox on my D50's MIC-IN with the -20db setting for Tommy Emmanuel...acoustic amplified guitar in a few days.
I actually NEVER used my preamp except for home-recording-tests. 

Since it's raining, I'm going indoors tonight to see Monte Montgomery, acoustic guitar wizard.  Will go with CA-14 cards and "mic-in" -20db pad and probably 75hz LCF.
Mics: Schoeps MK41; AT853(3-wire)(c,o); AT943(c,o); Audix M1290 (h); AT933(3-wire)(c,o); AT831(3-wire)(c); Shure 185(c); Sony ECM-166BMP (o); Sony ECM-166BC (c); CA-14(c); CA-11(c,o)
Preamps: BabyNbox; Naiant Tinybox v2.3
Recorders: Sony PCM-A10; Sony PCM-M10; Sony PCM-D50; Roland R-07; Edirol R-09HR; Sony MZ-RH1
Video:  Panasonic HDC-TM700 HD; Canon PowerShot SX50 HD; Sony DSC-HX50V

Offline Arni99

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2009, 05:05:57 PM »
Although I got the SP-PREAMP a little while ago, I'll be using my DPA 4061 + bbox on my D50's MIC-IN with the -20db setting for Tommy Emmanuel...acoustic amplified guitar in a few days.
I actually NEVER used my preamp except for home-recording-tests. 

Since it's raining, I'm going indoors tonight to see Monte Montgomery, acoustic guitar wizard.  Will go with CA-14 cards and "mic-in" -20db pad and probably 75hz LCF.
I wouldn't use the LCF with cardioid mics.
With DPA4061 omnis it's a different story at "bassy" funk/pop/rock shows....75Hz would fit well then.
1st: SONY PCM-M10 + DPA 4060's + DPA MPS 6030 power supply (microdot)
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Offline Falconidave

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Re: SP-PREAMP and Sony D50 - Which level to adjust?
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2009, 05:20:18 PM »
Although I got the SP-PREAMP a little while ago, I'll be using my DPA 4061 + bbox on my D50's MIC-IN with the -20db setting for Tommy Emmanuel...acoustic amplified guitar in a few days.
I actually NEVER used my preamp except for home-recording-tests. 

Since it's raining, I'm going indoors tonight to see Monte Montgomery, acoustic guitar wizard.  Will go with CA-14 cards and "mic-in" -20db pad and probably 75hz LCF.
I wouldn't use the LCF with cardioid mics.
With DPA4061 omnis it's a different story at "bassy" funk/pop/rock shows....75Hz would fit well then.

Yeah you're probably right there.  I just got a bit paranoid after this festival last night where you could literally feel the bass waves hitting your chest.  I am so loving not having to run a pre-amp/battery box every night!!  Thanks...
Mics: Schoeps MK41; AT853(3-wire)(c,o); AT943(c,o); Audix M1290 (h); AT933(3-wire)(c,o); AT831(3-wire)(c); Shure 185(c); Sony ECM-166BMP (o); Sony ECM-166BC (c); CA-14(c); CA-11(c,o)
Preamps: BabyNbox; Naiant Tinybox v2.3
Recorders: Sony PCM-A10; Sony PCM-M10; Sony PCM-D50; Roland R-07; Edirol R-09HR; Sony MZ-RH1
Video:  Panasonic HDC-TM700 HD; Canon PowerShot SX50 HD; Sony DSC-HX50V

 

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