Topic: MKH416 as mid for a m/s setup?

[jbw]

Hey there Tapers,

I was wondering if anyone has any experience utilizing a MKH416 as a mid for a m/s setup, and if they do/did what microphone would they suggest for a side.

I am in need a stereo setup and I record mainly sound effects, not music. I figured this might be a better approach than getting a separate stereo mic.

Thanks in advance.

[John Willett]

The MKH 416 is often used with the MKH 30 as MS - OK, but not as good as MKH 60/30.

The use is mainly broadcast - for music a 50/30 or 40/30 combination is better.  I have used a 40/30 set-up for ages.

[jbw]

The MKH 416 is often used with the MKH 30 as MS - OK, but not as good as MKH 60/30.

The use is mainly broadcast - for music a 50/30 or 40/30 combination is better.  I have used a 40/30 set-up for ages.

Hey thanks for the info, I am guessing since the MKH 60 has a bit "wider pattern than the 416, that is why it makes for a better choice.

Hrmm, decisions, decisions.

[DSatz]

> I am guessing since the MKH 60 has a bit "wider" pattern than the 416, that is why it makes for a better choice.

No, if shotgun microphones could have a consistent pickup pattern across the audio frequency range the way people seem to imagine, they would be enormously useful for distant pickup of all types of sound. The narrower their pattern, the farther away you could use them from.

Unfortunately, though, that isn't how shotgun microphones behave in reality. Even the best have irregular high-frequency response off-axis, and not just a little--multiple peaks and dips of 4 - 5 dB are not uncommon. And the high-frequency response also varies greatly depending on the exact angle of sound incidence: A frequency that has a 4 dB dip at a 30 degree angle might have a 4 dB peak for sound arriving at 35 degrees. That's due to the physics of how shotgun mikes work (the "interference tube" principle).

If you were recording in a dry acoustic and all your sound sources were on axis, this wouldn't matter much. But when you're recording music at normal distances, half or more of the sound energy that reaches your microphones is coming from significantly off-axis. In such situations, shotgun microphones (especially long ones) color and distort the sound picture considerably.

One other, equally important point: The narrow directional pattern of a shotgun microphone occurs only above some given frequency--perhaps 1 or 2 kHz, depending on the length of the slotted interference tube of the microphone. Below that frequency, the interference tube has little or no effect and the microphone's directional pattern will be a conventional super- or hypercardioid. For normal applications--mono dialog and effects recording for film and video--that's OK, but for stereo music recording it's not. It means that the stereo imaging of your M/S arrangement will be quite different at different frequencies. Off-center sound sources will divide by frequency, with the lows and low-mids coming more from center while the highs will come more from the sides.

For M/S stereo recording to work, what is needed from the "M" microphone is the greatest possible consistency and smoothness of directionality (whatever directional pattern you may choose) across the audio frequency range. Unfortunately, those are precisely the qualities which shotgun microphones, as a class, are notably deficient in--particularly long shotguns. By contrast, a good single-diaphragm supercardioid (Schoeps, Neumann or Sennheiser) will have a far more even (constant) directional pattern across the frequency range. And if you absolutely must record from a substantial distance, that type of microphone will also give you much better high-frequency diffuse-field response than any shotgun can.

So that's why.

--best regards

[jbw]

Woah, thanks for the information DSatz, next time could you please elaborate.

[F.O.Bean]

Woah, thanks for the information DSatz, next time could you please elaborate.

Yes, he IS the resident GURU about ALL things recording and microphone-wise Thanks, as usual, DSatz

[John Willett]

I am guessing since the MKH 60 has a bit "wider pattern than the 416, that is why it makes for a better choice.

No, that's not the reason.

The MKH 60 has pretty well the same polar pattern as the 416.

But - the MKH 60 is the same series as the MKH 30 - they are both symmetrical capsule mics, they are quieter and have a hgher output level than the old 416.

Basically, the MKH 30 and 60 are identical except for the polar-pattern.  In comparison, the 416 is low output and noisy.

The MKH 20/30/40/50/60 series were designed to be the same - except for the polar-pattern.