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Author Topic: UA-5 2x A/D vs PS2>9100  (Read 4009 times)

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Offline travelinbeat

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UA-5 2x A/D vs PS2>9100
« on: May 19, 2009, 12:07:47 AM »
So this thread has evolved into a different question than the one I started with, but is still related enough that I think it can stay attached.  I am running audio into an R-09HR (no digi / opti-in).  Considering that this device accepts only analogue signal, would I be better off running Mics (BSC-1's) > PS2 > CA ST-9100 or Mics (BCS-1's) > UA-5.  An issue to consider is that by pulling an analogue signal from the UA-5, it will have already undergone one A/D conversion, and then when it is plugged in to the R-09HR that same signal will undergo yet another A/D conversion.  So maybe there are a couple of questions:
 1- What would sound better PS2 > 9100 or UA-5
 2- If UA-5, then what, if any, mod would be best
 3- Does anyone know of any mod's to the UA-5 that would allow one of the analogue outputs (headphones, perhaps) to bypass the A/D conversion of the device?  Who might be able to help me out with such a mod?

Thanks in advance!!!!



Quote from: original post
I want to start to start off by saying that I'm new to open-taping... I'm a long-time stealth'er.

I bought some BSC1's recently and plan on powering them with a PS2, and boosting them with a CA ST-9100 Pre.  At the same time, I have been trying to offload my HiMD MZ-RH10 (listed in YS).  A fella (non-TS member) contacted me offering a 1:1 trade for one of his homebrew pre's.  Thing is I don't know him, and don't know pre's.  I don't know much about power and whether it's easy or hard to make a pre.  I'm attaching a link to his pictures as well as his spec's on the device.  I am just wondering what you guys think about the situation... is it worth offloading my MD in order to get the combination power plus +26dB of a pre that he swears is solid and clean?  Should I run from the whole ordeal? 

Any and all opinions and insights are welcome, and thanks in advance!

http://picasaweb.google.com/strungup66/MicPreamp#

Gain= 26 db fixed setting
S/N = -88 db ( very very quiet )
Power =1 x 9 Volt battery*
input = XLR balanced , converted internal Balanced to Unbalanced for better shielding and noise rejection
Output = 1/4 inch stereo connector, use Headphone adapter (Supplied)for 1/8 inch

*- (may be 2x 9V's for the mic-powering model)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2009, 11:12:04 PM by travelinbeat »
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline taylordb

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 05:26:31 AM »
Personally I would not be interested in a pre that had only one gain setting, no matter how quiet it was.  The CA ST-9100 is pretty quiet itself and has much more flexibility in gain positions.

Offline sunjan

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 06:17:49 AM »
Personally I would not be interested in a pre that had only one gain setting, no matter how quiet it was.  The CA ST-9100 is pretty quiet itself and has much more flexibility in gain positions.
What he said.

Once you sold you Hi-MD, top up maybe ~$50 and you can get yourself a UA-5 wmod:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117531.0.html
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
MD transfers: MZ-RH1. Tape transfers: Nak DR-1
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 09:00:27 AM »
Personally I would not be interested in a pre that had only one gain setting, no matter how quiet it was.  The CA ST-9100 is pretty quiet itself and has much more flexibility in gain positions.
What he said.

Once you sold you Hi-MD, top up maybe ~$50 and you can get yourself a UA-5 wmod:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117531.0.html

What's the deal with the UA-5's?  do those provide phantom?  What's the max gain?
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline sunjan

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 09:56:51 AM »
Once you sold you Hi-MD, top up maybe ~$50 and you can get yourself a UA-5 wmod:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,117531.0.html

What's the deal with the UA-5's?  do those provide phantom?  What's the max gain?

P48 and +50dB gain, all-in-one  :D:
http://www.core-sound.com/ua5-duo-usbpre-comparison.html
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
MD transfers: MZ-RH1. Tape transfers: Nak DR-1
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 10:48:33 AM »
Hole crap +50dB?!?!   :o

That's the elephant gun of audio!

I think you've won me on one of these =)

Another quick question-- as I will be running from the UA-5 into an R-09HR (which does not any any digi-in), how should I pull an output signal?
« Last Edit: May 19, 2009, 10:55:52 AM by travelinbeat »
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 11:31:00 AM »
Another quick question-- as I will be running from the UA-5 into an R-09HR (which does not any any digi-in), how should I pull an output signal?

you have 2 choices there, either the 1/4" output jacks on the back or the (2) RCA jacks on the back can be used to output to your R09HR. Either cable would have to terminate to an 1/8" jack though
Mics:
AKG ck91 actives
AKG ck61 > Nbob collettes > PFA
Church CA 14 cards

Preamps:
Edirol UA-5 w/Oade PMod
Church 9100
Church 9100 (for use with the ck91 mics only)

Recorders:
Tascam DR680
Edirol R4 w/Oade Concert Mod
Edirol R09

gear for sale:

Offline tgakidis

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2009, 04:59:22 PM »
The UA-5 into the R09hr is not a pass through and would go through a series of Digital conversion.  Anlaog Mics > UA-5 Digi > UA-5 Alanog Out > R09HR Digi conversion (A>D>A>D).  Not the purest conversion but a few folks do it and have no complaints.  The UA-5 > H120 is sweet 16 bit digi recording rig and I still have mine for festivals with multiple stages.  In fact I will be using that combo this weekend for the side stage and the Strange-Creek festival in Greenfield, Ma.
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken RFT AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414 xls / AKG c414 B-XLS / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1,ck22,ck3,ck8,Blue B6) / nBob AKG Actives>PFA/ nBob AKG Actives>nBox Platinum / Naiant AKG Actives>PFA / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 / Lunated V3
Recs: Sound Devices MixPre-10ii, MixPre-10T, MixPre-6ii, MixPre-6 / Sony PCM-M10 / Roland R-07

My Recordings: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%28Gakidis%29&sort=-date

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 05:59:12 PM »
You say it is not a pass through--  what does that mean?

I understand that I would not be using the UA5 to it's fullest capabilities with the R-09HR, but considering that there's no way to use any A/D with that unit, wouldn't I better off with a UA5 than a PS2 + ST-9100?  The main advantages I'm seeing are a)significantly less gear, b) significantly more gain
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline tgakidis

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 06:33:32 PM »
normal conversion is a>d the ua5 r09hr combo does it twice because of the analog out of the ua5.  Not a huge problem except to the purists.  Talk with chris at Busman about a warm vs transparent mod with his mics.  I would think a transparent would be good but I am not real familiar with those mics.
GAKables: Custom XLR, Digi & Batt Cables http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0

Mics: Telefunken RFT AR-51 / Telefunken ELA M 260 (tk60,tk61,tk62) / Telefunken M60 / AKG c426b / AKG c414 xls / AKG c414 B-XLS / AKG c460b (ck61,ck62,ck63,ck69,a60,ck1,ck22,ck3,ck8,Blue B6) / nBob AKG Actives>PFA/ nBob AKG Actives>nBox Platinum / Naiant AKG Actives>PFA / AT853 w/ 4.7k Mod (Card,Omni,Sub)
Pre-Amps: Sonosax SX-M2 / Lunated V3
Recs: Sound Devices MixPre-10ii, MixPre-10T, MixPre-6ii, MixPre-6 / Sony PCM-M10 / Roland R-07

My Recordings: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%28Gakidis%29&sort=-date

Offline sunjan

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2009, 11:07:17 AM »
You say it is not a pass through--  what does that mean?
Exactly what he described. UA-5 does A>D>A, ie. it doesn't let the analog signal pass through without conversion between input and output.

I understand that I would not be using the UA5 to it's fullest capabilities with the R-09HR, but considering that there's no way to use any A/D with that unit, wouldn't I better off with a UA5 than a PS2 + ST-9100?  The main advantages I'm seeing are a)significantly less gear, b) significantly more gain
Most of us power the UA-5 with a wally world DVD battery, so the cubic footprint/weight of my entire rig is still a lot bigger than your PS2>ST-9100. For stealth, I'd probably opt for PS2>ST-9100, but if you have balls and are willing to schlep a bit heavier gear, it can be done with the UA-5 too.
The full gain isn't really needed unless you go for unamplified acoustic shows, depending on how hot your mics are.
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
MD transfers: MZ-RH1. Tape transfers: Nak DR-1
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2009, 11:35:36 AM »
You say it is not a pass through--  what does that mean?
Exactly what he described. UA-5 does A>D>A, ie. it doesn't let the analog signal pass through without conversion between input and output.

I understand that I would not be using the UA5 to it's fullest capabilities with the R-09HR, but considering that there's no way to use any A/D with that unit, wouldn't I better off with a UA5 than a PS2 + ST-9100?  The main advantages I'm seeing are a)significantly less gear, b) significantly more gain
Most of us power the UA-5 with a wally world DVD battery, so the cubic footprint/weight of my entire rig is still a lot bigger than your PS2>ST-9100. For stealth, I'd probably opt for PS2>ST-9100, but if you have balls and are willing to schlep a bit heavier gear, it can be done with the UA-5 too.
The full gain isn't really needed unless you go for unamplified acoustic shows, depending on how hot your mics are.

Is the doubling of an A/D process quite audible?  Would I stand to increase, decrease, or break even with regard to quality by replacing PS-2 > 9100 with a UA-5?

I probably won't be using any of this for stealth.  My stealth setup involves CA-14's and CAFS-OMNI's with a CA-UGLY o 9100 and the R-09HR.  All of the PS2 / UA-5 business will be for my BSC-1's and any other XLR-based open mics that I may pick up a little farther down the road. 
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2009, 11:47:06 AM »
I want to start to start off by saying that I'm new to open-taping... I'm a long-time stealth'er.

I bought some BSC1's recently and plan on powering them with a PS2, and boosting them with a CA ST-9100 Pre.  At the same time, I have been trying to offload my HiMD MZ-RH10 (listed in YS).  A fella (non-TS member) contacted me offering a 1:1 trade for one of his homebrew pre's.  Thing is I don't know him, and don't know pre's.  I don't know much about power and whether it's easy or hard to make a pre.  I'm attaching a link to his pictures as well as his spec's on the device.  I am just wondering what you guys think about the situation... is it worth offloading my MD in order to get the combination power plus +26dB of a pre that he swears is solid and clean?  Should I run from the whole ordeal? 

Any and all opinions and insights are welcome, and thanks in advance!

http://picasaweb.google.com/strungup66/MicPreamp#

Gain= 26 db fixed setting
S/N = -88 db ( very very quiet )
Power =1 x 9 Volt battery*
input = XLR balanced , converted internal Balanced to Unbalanced for better shielding and noise rejection
Output = 1/4 inch stereo connector, use Headphone adapter (Supplied)for 1/8 inch

*- (may be 2x 9V's for the mic-powering model)
This preamp is a single transistor preamp with horrible signal to noise ratio he claims 88 I would suspect its much worse. It looks like a kit preamp you can buy for $8 at any electronic store. He does however seem to know how to repair a 57 LESPAUL very well :)
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline sunjan

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2009, 05:23:09 PM »
Is the doubling of an A/D process quite audible?  Would I stand to increase, decrease, or break even with regard to quality by replacing PS-2 > 9100 with a UA-5?

Very good question. Compared to a digimod UA5, maybe PS2>9100 would come out on top?
But if you put the combo next to a Oade or Busman mod UA5, perhaps the improved component quality would make it a winner?
I don't think any A/B listening test was ever done, using the analog out of the UA5.

If you rename the top subject and solicit opinions, I'm sure others here could say more.
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
MD transfers: MZ-RH1. Tape transfers: Nak DR-1
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800

Offline illconditioned

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Re: Trading for a homebrew Pre
« Reply #14 on: May 21, 2009, 05:34:30 PM »
I want to start to start off by saying that I'm new to open-taping... I'm a long-time stealth'er.

I bought some BSC1's recently and plan on powering them with a PS2, and boosting them with a CA ST-9100 Pre.  At the same time, I have been trying to offload my HiMD MZ-RH10 (listed in YS).  A fella (non-TS member) contacted me offering a 1:1 trade for one of his homebrew pre's.  Thing is I don't know him, and don't know pre's.  I don't know much about power and whether it's easy or hard to make a pre.  I'm attaching a link to his pictures as well as his spec's on the device.  I am just wondering what you guys think about the situation... is it worth offloading my MD in order to get the combination power plus +26dB of a pre that he swears is solid and clean?  Should I run from the whole ordeal? 

Any and all opinions and insights are welcome, and thanks in advance!

http://picasaweb.google.com/strungup66/MicPreamp#

Gain= 26 db fixed setting
S/N = -88 db ( very very quiet )
Power =1 x 9 Volt battery*
input = XLR balanced , converted internal Balanced to Unbalanced for better shielding and noise rejection
Output = 1/4 inch stereo connector, use Headphone adapter (Supplied)for 1/8 inch

*- (may be 2x 9V's for the mic-powering model)
This preamp is a single transistor preamp with horrible signal to noise ratio he claims 88 I would suspect its much worse. It looks like a kit preamp you can buy for $8 at any electronic store. He does however seem to know how to repair a 57 LESPAUL very well :)
Is this the Visivox guy?  I know he was selling some cheap preamps awhile back.  I think he used some kind of kit (from an electronics store?) and just chopped the boards and put them in a case.

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

 

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