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Author Topic: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?  (Read 1627 times)

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Offline Aaron41

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Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« on: June 14, 2009, 07:02:30 AM »
Hey everyone,

I've been having some trouble taping at Bonnaroo. I've never had any problems with any part of my rig but recently my recordings have been coming out weird. The left channel is coming in MUCH lower than the right channel. I haven't changed anything in the rig at all. DPA 4061s > SP batt box > Iriver H120. I can't figure out what in the world is causing this right channel to be lower. The mics were damn near matched for the last two years I have had them.

Here is a sample:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ginvvmjzbom

I have tried normalizing the recording with left and right not being normalized equally. This didn't sound right. I have also tried to raise the left channel to around the right channel. For some reason I can never get them to sound correct. If I raise the left channel to around the same level as the right it sounds louder. Even if the right channel clips the left channel sounds louder.

Is there any way I can fix my recordings? It seems like it would be a simple amplifying job but I can't figure out what feature to use on Cool Edit Pro. If anybody knows any other program that can fix that I would really love to know. I've pulled some amazing sets and I'd be really upset to find out I can't fix these recordings. Thank you for your time.
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Offline Myco

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2009, 08:56:19 AM »
You can just raise the volume of just that one channel, at least in Soundforge you can, I imagine you can do it with other programs also.
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Online acidjack

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2009, 10:22:31 AM »
Hey everyone,

I've been having some trouble taping at Bonnaroo. I've never had any problems with any part of my rig but recently my recordings have been coming out weird. The left channel is coming in MUCH lower than the right channel. I haven't changed anything in the rig at all. DPA 4061s > SP batt box > Iriver H120. I can't figure out what in the world is causing this right channel to be lower. The mics were damn near matched for the last two years I have had them.

Here is a sample:

http://www.mediafire.com/?ginvvmjzbom

I have tried normalizing the recording with left and right not being normalized equally. This didn't sound right. I have also tried to raise the left channel to around the right channel. For some reason I can never get them to sound correct. If I raise the left channel to around the same level as the right it sounds louder. Even if the right channel clips the left channel sounds louder.

Is there any way I can fix my recordings? It seems like it would be a simple amplifying job but I can't figure out what feature to use on Cool Edit Pro. If anybody knows any other program that can fix that I would really love to know. I've pulled some amazing sets and I'd be really upset to find out I can't fix these recordings. Thank you for your time.

Funny, I had this happen with my SP omni's running into their box - though not their cards, running into the same box. 

If it's a LOT lower (like 5 or more dB) there is likely something wrong with one of the mics or the wiring somewhere in there.  You probably ought to have them looked at.

If amplifying one channel up doesn't work - which it won't if it's too many dB lower since it will probably reveal a bunch of nasty preamp hiss when you do it, among other things, your other option is to copy the good channel and make a mono recording. It'll still sound OK, less than ideal of course. That's what I did when I had this problem (and I am sending the mics back).
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Aaron41

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2009, 12:54:08 PM »
I can't tell if it is a mic issue or something else. I reversed the mics (left mic on right side, right mic on left side) and it produced the same problem. The left channel was still off.

The tricky part is I can't figure out easily how much to bump up each side. I'd like to get it as close to matched as possible.
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2009, 01:54:32 PM »
Is there any way I can fix my recordings? It seems like it would be a simple amplifying job but I can't figure out what feature to use on Cool Edit Pro.

Sounds great to me using Adobe Audition and simply raising the volume of the left channel appropriately. I used 20 dB and I'd be happy with it if it were my recording, but I'm not all that particular about that sort of thing.
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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2009, 11:09:38 AM »
I can't tell if it is a mic issue or something else. I reversed the mics (left mic on right side, right mic on left side) and it produced the same problem. The left channel was still off.

The tricky part is I can't figure out easily how much to bump up each side. I'd like to get it as close to matched as possible.

If I'm reading you correctly, are you able to actually change which channel a mic goes into (i.e., you plugged what used to be the "right" mic into the left channel of the batt box, and the "left" mic into the right channel of the batt box)?   I know the Coresound HEBs can't do that since they terminate in a single mini XLR, but yours may be different. 

If you swapped the mics themselves and the left channel was off by a ton, that sounds like something wrong with the box.  Do you have another box you can try?  Or, have you tried running the mics without the box into something else (such as directly into the iRiver, or into your computer) and testing them at home? 

Also, maybe Cool Edit is different, but I would generally avoid the "Normalize" feature.  To simply just raise the volume of a channel (since most people record to peak out significantly under 0dB, and then raise in post to just under 0dB), it's best to use "Amplify" or the equivalent, which literally just amplifies the volume of the waveform, rather than "Normalize" which as I understand it amplifies different frequencies differently and produces more of a compressed, FM radio type of sound...
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline mattmiller

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 12:08:53 PM »
...it's best to use "Amplify" or the equivalent, which literally just amplifies the volume of the waveform, rather than "Normalize" which as I understand it amplifies different frequencies differently and produces more of a compressed, FM radio type of sound...

If that's true, it's news to me.  My understanding is that if the recording peaks at, say, -12.5, and I normalize it to -0.1, it amplifies everything evenly by 12.4.  I sure hope that's the case.
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Recorders: Tascam DR-680, Tascam HD-P2 (x2), Sony PCM-M10

Offline newplanet7

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 12:24:22 PM »
...it's best to use "Amplify" or the equivalent, which literally just amplifies the volume of the waveform, rather than "Normalize" which as I understand it amplifies different frequencies differently and produces more of a compressed, FM radio type of sound...

If that's true, it's news to me.  My understanding is that if the recording peaks at, say, -12.5, and I normalize it to -0.1, it amplifies everything evenly by 12.4.  I sure hope that's the case.
Two different types of normalizing fellas.
RMS which makes the wave look like a stick o' butter
frequently ruining any dynamics of the tape. Which I am assuming acidjack is speaking of.

Peak normalizing which does exactly what matt was saying.
Finds the largest peak, then you set the normalization to whatever you desire(I use -.1)
The process will take the difference between the largest peak and -.1 and raise the whole wave
the amount of the difference between the largest peak and -.1. Thus keeping the dynamics.


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Online acidjack

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 12:56:58 PM »
...it's best to use "Amplify" or the equivalent, which literally just amplifies the volume of the waveform, rather than "Normalize" which as I understand it amplifies different frequencies differently and produces more of a compressed, FM radio type of sound...

If that's true, it's news to me.  My understanding is that if the recording peaks at, say, -12.5, and I normalize it to -0.1, it amplifies everything evenly by 12.4.  I sure hope that's the case.
Two different types of normalizing fellas.
RMS which makes the wave look like a stick o' butter
frequently ruining any dynamics of the tape. Which I am assuming acidjack is speaking of.

Peak normalizing which does exactly what matt was saying.
Finds the largest peak, then you set the normalization to whatever you desire(I use -.1)
The process will take the difference between the largest peak and -.1 and raise the whole wave
the amount of the difference between the largest peak and -.1. Thus keeping the dynamics.


Right. CoolEdit Pro may be doing "peak normalizing."  I believe that what Audacity does is the RMS normalizing, which makes that nasty FM-style recording.  In Audacity, at least, "amplify" is the way to go.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Aaron41

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 09:40:19 PM »
The problem is not with my bat box. I was able to run my AT 831s at Bonnaroo and had no problems whatsoever with my levels. I think the problem might be with the plug itself but I'm not sure. Kind of bums me out.

Are there any programs out there were I can raise the levels of a specific channel while listening to it? I think that if I could do this I could just match the levels by ear. The hardest part is going to be finding out exactly how much to raise. I believe that all of my recordings will be roughly the same amount off.

If I can't fix this well enough I will probably just release them in mono. Definitely don't want to do that though if I don't have to.



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Offline Frequincy

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Re: Left channel WAY lower. Fixable?
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2009, 04:14:41 PM »
The problem is not with my bat box. I was able to run my AT 831s at Bonnaroo and had no problems whatsoever with my levels. I think the problem might be with the plug itself but I'm not sure. Kind of bums me out.

Are there any programs out there were I can raise the levels of a specific channel while listening to it? I think that if I could do this I could just match the levels by ear. The hardest part is going to be finding out exactly how much to raise. I believe that all of my recordings will be roughly the same amount off.

If I can't fix this well enough I will probably just release them in mono. Definitely don't want to do that though if I don't have to.

In Protools I would just open up two mono tracks and pan them hard Left & Right appropriately and use the fader in the mix window to adjust the level of the quieter left channel by ear while listening. I don't know if Cool Edit has a mixer, but I assume it does.


 

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