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Author Topic: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)  (Read 5196 times)

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Offline acidjack

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I apologize as I feel like I have been posting about this and related stuff all over the place, but haven't really gotten quite the answers I am looking for.  I also emailed Chris a couple of times, but have not heard back. 

I am having 2 AKG ck91s modded out for an active setup.  I need high SPL capability. 

So far, I am having a hard time finding something to power these things.  I'm in discussions with Sound Professionals about custom making something, and I love their gear, but if there is something commercially available and easier, I'm all for it, and the Church gear will cost less than having a custom job done, and is loved by many on here.   I know the ST-9100 can already be built with 2xmini XLR inputs and a hardwired stereo mini out.  But, I have heard that the 9100 doesn't output quite enough juice - that it doesn't output the 9v or higher that is needed for the ck91s, especially at higher volumes. 

Is it the case that the 9100 doesn't quite provide 9v?  Also, is this different for different versions of this preamp?  I know Chris is swamped right now, so if I want one more quickly, it may make sense to acquire a used one instead of having a new one built...

Any other recs for something will do this and doesn't have to be custom built would be appreciated.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline fmaderjr

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2009, 03:45:51 PM »
The 9100 puts out about 97 % of what the total battery power is of the 9 volt battery your using.

This means the 9 volt battery would have to be putting out around 9.28 v. for the ST-9100 to provide 9 volts. I just tested one of my unused alkalines and it was putting out 9.33 v., but I doubt if it would stay above 9.28 long enough to be of much use.

Maybe one of the Maha 9.6 v. NiMh rechargeables from Thomas Distributing that Chris recommends would stay above 9.28 for several hours, but who knows?

AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2009, 06:14:32 PM »
My measurements of the CA-UGLY with Maha 9.6v are below.  Non DPA 4060 parts are in bold.  Not sure how closely the UGLY compares with the 9100 but it's similar if not the same, adding features the UGLY lacks.  Chris would need to confirm that however.

Quote
DPA 4060
33k ohms - resistance measured across mic

Church Audio UGLY preamp powered with '9.6v' rechargable NiMH battery measured at 10.2V charged
15ma - preamp's current draw through battery (mics attached, preamp output disconnected)
7.5V - open circuit mic power voltage
0.74mA - current draw through DPA 4060
2.8V - Voltage drop across DPA 4060
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline acidjack

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2009, 07:38:20 PM »
My measurements of the CA-UGLY with Maha 9.6v are below.  Non DPA 4060 parts are in bold.  Not sure how closely the UGLY compares with the 9100 but it's similar if not the same, adding features the UGLY lacks.  Chris would need to confirm that however.

Quote
DPA 4060
33k ohms - resistance measured across mic

Church Audio UGLY preamp powered with '9.6v' rechargable NiMH battery measured at 10.2V charged
15ma - preamp's current draw through battery (mics attached, preamp output disconnected)
7.5V - open circuit mic power voltage
0.74mA - current draw through DPA 4060
2.8V - Voltage drop across DPA 4060

Thanks.  Hoping to hear from Chris eventually to confirm, as my other alternative involves having a custom box built at higher $$$.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2009, 09:28:18 PM »
It won't work.

I asked Chris a while back and he said no, but he has a box he can make for you for this purpose.  I just got an N Box, and am very happy with it. 
Regards,

Scooter123

mk41 > N Box  > Sony M-10
mk4 > N Box > Sony M-10

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2009, 09:51:46 PM »
My measurements of the CA-UGLY with Maha 9.6v are below.  Non DPA 4060 parts are in bold.  Not sure how closely the UGLY compares with the 9100 but it's similar if not the same, adding features the UGLY lacks.  Chris would need to confirm that however.

Quote


The 9100 will power your mics I have to get your mics here because there is a mod I have to do to the 9100 to make it work and I forget what I did lol.... but I have a few customers that are using 9100 preamps to power the mics you have.

Chris

DPA 4060
33k ohms - resistance measured across mic

Church Audio UGLY preamp powered with '9.6v' rechargable NiMH battery measured at 10.2V charged
15ma - preamp's current draw through battery (mics attached, preamp output disconnected)
7.5V - open circuit mic power voltage
0.74mA - current draw through DPA 4060
2.8V - Voltage drop across DPA 4060

Thanks.  Hoping to hear from Chris eventually to confirm, as my other alternative involves having a custom box built at higher $$$.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2009, 10:30:35 PM »
The 9100 will power your mics I have to get your mics here because there is a mod I have to do to the 9100 to make it work and I forget what I did lol.... but I have a few customers that are using 9100 preamps to power the mics you have.

Chris

There you have it.  ;)
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2009, 06:54:38 PM »
Slight hi-jack here...

I picked up a CA-9100 but according to my measurements it only delivers 4.7v +/- to the mics. (1)

I've run ATes943 "two wire" mics into it three times now and each time I think I see evidence of brickwalling, twice without the pre's red light coming on.  (2)  See Images (3)

Can I put a 9v battery box into the chain and prevent the brickwalling, or is there a chance for damage somewhere?

Thanks, carry on.


(1) This measurement taken with a fresh 9.24v battery.

(2) These runs were started with a battery that began at 8.5v and ended at 7.6v capacity.

(3) pics progressively drill into typical anomaly pattern.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 07:14:55 PM by U~Ca^ »
Not seeing any shows now (thanks Covid)... None at The Fine Line.
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Offline sunjan

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2009, 08:50:48 AM »
I picked up a CA-9100 but according to my measurements it only delivers 4.7v +/- to the mics. (1)

Can I put a 9v battery box into the chain and prevent the brickwalling, or is there a chance for damage somewhere?

U~Ca, you're spot on. Here's your answer:
back then my preamps only put out about 4.6 volts now they put out 8 volts. That is a huge difference. I can upgrade your preamp for $79 that will give you a brand new preamp with the trade in of the old preamp.
So no need to mess around with an extra bbox, just send it back to Church for an upgrade!

To the OP:
Apart from powering your mics with "9100 active mod", did you know that they can also be ran with AT8531 power modules (or possibly AT8533/Samson PM4 if you have access to phantom). More details here:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,57299.0.html
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
MD transfers: MZ-RH1. Tape transfers: Nak DR-1
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2009, 01:35:56 PM »
^ I saw that... You missed my point.  I *have* a battery box (costing way less than $80 BTW). 

Is my idea a solution or a potential problem?
Not seeing any shows now (thanks Covid)... None at The Fine Line.
Read "Toward the End of Time" by Updike to know my name sake.
I'm a Mask-debator, at least till I get glasses. GOHCQC 2 + 2 = 4
Official Archivist (on hold) for Jazz Central Studios, MinniMN
DPA4021/SKM140/NakCM1k/AT4051a/ADK A51s/Countryman B3/ATes943/SPc4(och)/S'lux s502... >
TinyBox OT> PCM-M10/DR-680/R4/T+mod UA5 needs attention

Offline sunjan

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2009, 02:00:43 AM »
^ I saw that... You missed my point.  I *have* a battery box (costing way less than $80 BTW). 

Is my idea a solution or a potential problem?

Sorry 'bout that. Sure, you should be able to run ck91>9V bbox>CA-9100>recorder.
You just have to work out the interconnects between the bbox and the 9100, depending on the jacks.

I guess the question is whether the bbox will be affected by the voltage coming from the 9100, but AFAIK this is no issue.
Mics: A-51s LE, CK 930, Line Audo CM3, AT853Rx (hc,c,sc),  ECM 121, ECM 909A
Pres: Tinybox, CA-9100, UA5 wmod
Recorders: M10, H116 (CF mod), H340, NJB3
Gearbag: High Sierra Corkscrew
MD transfers: MZ-RH1. Tape transfers: Nak DR-1
Photo rig: Nikon D70, 18-70mm/3.5-4.5, SB-800

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2009, 12:07:39 PM »
^ I saw that... You missed my point.  I *have* a battery box (costing way less than $80 BTW). 

Is my idea a solution or a potential problem?
There should be no issues.

Chris
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2009, 12:23:59 PM »
The 9100 will power your mics I have to get your mics here because there is a mod I have to do to the 9100 to make it work and I forget what I did lol.... but I have a few customers that are using 9100 preamps to power the mics you have.
Chris

raising hand as one of those customers.

So far, everything's running fine with my 9100 preamp powering  my ck91's....!

edit:
I did a show using that setup about 2 weekends ago, I'll try to post up a sample if anyone wants to take a listen and provide feedback
« Last Edit: June 29, 2009, 12:35:28 PM by norma023 »
Mics:
AKG ck91 actives
AKG ck61 > Nbob collettes > PFA
Church CA 14 cards

Preamps:
Edirol UA-5 w/Oade PMod
Church 9100
Church 9100 (for use with the ck91 mics only)

Recorders:
Tascam DR680
Edirol R4 w/Oade Concert Mod
Edirol R09

gear for sale:

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2009, 01:09:59 PM »
^ I saw that... You missed my point.  I *have* a battery box (costing way less than $80 BTW). 

Is my idea a solution or a potential problem?
There should be no issues.

Chris


Thanks, Chris.

Ed to add... later in the day I ran a test of the mic>batt box>9100>JB3 chain by taking 3 hours of music, close mic'd (within 5') of a vigorous drummer and there was no evidence of brickwalling or clipping.  Works for me!
« Last Edit: June 30, 2009, 04:21:09 AM by U~Ca^ »
Not seeing any shows now (thanks Covid)... None at The Fine Line.
Read "Toward the End of Time" by Updike to know my name sake.
I'm a Mask-debator, at least till I get glasses. GOHCQC 2 + 2 = 4
Official Archivist (on hold) for Jazz Central Studios, MinniMN
DPA4021/SKM140/NakCM1k/AT4051a/ADK A51s/Countryman B3/ATes943/SPc4(och)/S'lux s502... >
TinyBox OT> PCM-M10/DR-680/R4/T+mod UA5 needs attention

Offline EarlyMorningRain

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Re: Church 9100- does it provide 9v? (Need to power ck91 actives)
« Reply #14 on: July 01, 2009, 10:00:35 AM »
ok, here's some audio samples for you with my ck91 > Church 9100 setup

The zipped file (rar actually) has 3 audio tracks, all from different shows, and it's related text file. So 6 files total once unzipped (or would that be unrarred?)

http://www.sendspace.com/file/spm1pg

If the link dies out from age and you want to hear them still, pm me

Mics:
AKG ck91 actives
AKG ck61 > Nbob collettes > PFA
Church CA 14 cards

Preamps:
Edirol UA-5 w/Oade PMod
Church 9100
Church 9100 (for use with the ck91 mics only)

Recorders:
Tascam DR680
Edirol R4 w/Oade Concert Mod
Edirol R09

gear for sale:

 

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