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Author Topic: decent small 24 bit adc?  (Read 8198 times)

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Offline makers marc

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decent small 24 bit adc?
« on: July 17, 2009, 09:34:00 AM »
In a bit of a dilemma. dat gear is finally dying, and I've pretty much decided on an oade mod 661 by default. Like the fr le2, but hate that it's a little cheap looking and has only analog in-and that I can't run the 148 into the xlrs, have to run 1/4 inch. Discarded the p-2 because of size. And the 722 because of expense and the (imo) crap adc.

but I can't run the 148 into the xlrs of the 661 either, and the 1/8 input is stock. So I'd like to find a small adc to run in front of the 661 and just use it as a bit bucket. Any ideas?

Thanks all!
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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2009, 10:00:03 AM »
As drew said, "I like my cables like I like my women, ugly and loyal" and the fr2-le succeeds in that characteristic (for me). I do agree, the big ding is no-digi in and the 661 makes up for it. What was your reasoning as to why you want to avoid doing 148 > fr2-le/661 all via XLRs? I had to go look and the pics of the 148 I saw had XLR outs.

I'm only curious cause if you reject the SD series for expense, then if someone else can help you save money, it looks like you'd be interested.

edit: clarification
« Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 11:29:20 AM by page »
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline tcf

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2009, 10:16:57 AM »
The 1/4 inch are very secure, I ran line in with the combo jacks and I had no reservations with a Fr2le.  I thought the a/d for line in sounded really good.

Offline DATBRAD

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2009, 11:29:24 AM »
In a bit of a dilemma. dat gear is finally dying, and I've pretty much decided on an oade mod 661 by default. Like the fr le2, but hate that it's a little cheap looking and has only analog in-and that I can't run the 148 into the xlrs, have to run 1/4 inch. Discarded the p-2 because of size. And the 722 because of expense and the (imo) crap adc.

but I can't run the 148 into the xlrs of the 661 either, and the 1/8 input is stock. So I'd like to find a small adc to run in front of the 661 and just use it as a bit bucket. Any ideas?

Thanks all!


The XLR input on the 661 is mechanically switchable between mic in, and line in, so I am confused why you could not take the XLR out of the 148 and go line in on the 661. I know the 248 only has RCA outs, but I am almost positive that the 148 has XLR line outs. The FR2LE is the one that cannot accept a balanced XLR line in, and so that should be the big limitation for you with that unit. Also, the 661 does seamless auto splits at 4GB, while the Fostex simply stops. You can start a new file manually before the limit, but if you forget, you are screwed, particularly if you run 24/96. Of course, you already mentioned the digital in, and I also like the display and controls better on the 661, which is why I chose it myself.

I do recomend getting one of the Oade modded 661s, either the concert or warm, as these mods increase the SNR on the XLR mic and line path by 30db over the stock unit. Definately worth the extra $60, IMO.

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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2009, 12:50:21 PM »
an AD2k is a sweet 24 bit A/D converter, and it's not too big, but with the 148 > AD2k combo, there's no real good way to adjust levels.

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2009, 12:56:53 PM »
In a bit of a dilemma. dat gear is finally dying, and I've pretty much decided on an oade mod 661 by default. Like the fr le2, but hate that it's a little cheap looking and has only analog in-and that I can't run the 148 into the xlrs, have to run 1/4 inch. Discarded the p-2 because of size. And the 722 because of expense and the (imo) crap adc.

but I can't run the 148 into the xlrs of the 661 either, and the 1/8 input is stock. So I'd like to find a small adc to run in front of the 661 and just use it as a bit bucket. Any ideas?

Thanks all!


The XLR input on the 661 is mechanically switchable between mic in, and line in, so I am confused why you could not take the XLR out of the 148 and go line in on the 661. I know the 248 only has RCA outs, but I am almost positive that the 148 has XLR line outs. The FR2LE is the one that cannot accept a balanced XLR line in, and so that should be the big limitation for you with that unit. Also, the 661 does seamless auto splits at 4GB, while the Fostex simply stops. You can start a new file manually before the limit, but if you forget, you are screwed, particularly if you run 24/96. Of course, you already mentioned the digital in, and I also like the display and controls better on the 661, which is why I chose it myself.

I do recomend getting one of the Oade modded 661s, either the concert or warm, as these mods increase the SNR on the XLR mic and line path by 30db over the stock unit. Definately worth the extra $60, IMO.



Thanks for the reminder, I'd forgotten about the 4gb limit.

Per the unmodded (fr2-le) specs, the XLR ins can sustain similar levels as the TRS jacks (+4 max and -8 references on TRS and +2 max and -10 reference on XLR, all dBu). Just turn the trim all the way down. Did I miss something or are you looking for that last 2db(u)? Also, where am I'm missing it won't accept balanced XLR in though, the official documentation says it does.  ???

I agree with Brad though, my curiosity stands on the reason for not wanting to go 148 > 661/fr2-le in?
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline DATBRAD

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2009, 02:26:02 PM »
In a bit of a dilemma. dat gear is finally dying, and I've pretty much decided on an oade mod 661 by default. Like the fr le2, but hate that it's a little cheap looking and has only analog in-and that I can't run the 148 into the xlrs, have to run 1/4 inch. Discarded the p-2 because of size. And the 722 because of expense and the (imo) crap adc.

but I can't run the 148 into the xlrs of the 661 either, and the 1/8 input is stock. So I'd like to find a small adc to run in front of the 661 and just use it as a bit bucket. Any ideas?

Thanks all!


The XLR input on the 661 is mechanically switchable between mic in, and line in, so I am confused why you could not take the XLR out of the 148 and go line in on the 661. I know the 248 only has RCA outs, but I am almost positive that the 148 has XLR line outs. The FR2LE is the one that cannot accept a balanced XLR line in, and so that should be the big limitation for you with that unit. Also, the 661 does seamless auto splits at 4GB, while the Fostex simply stops. You can start a new file manually before the limit, but if you forget, you are screwed, particularly if you run 24/96. Of course, you already mentioned the digital in, and I also like the display and controls better on the 661, which is why I chose it myself.

I do recomend getting one of the Oade modded 661s, either the concert or warm, as these mods increase the SNR on the XLR mic and line path by 30db over the stock unit. Definately worth the extra $60, IMO.



Thanks for the reminder, I'd forgotten about the 4gb limit.

Per the unmodded (fr2-le) specs, the XLR ins can sustain similar levels as the TRS jacks (+4 max and -8 references on TRS and +2 max and -10 reference on XLR, all dBu). Just turn the trim all the way down. Did I miss something or are you looking for that last 2db(u)? Also, where am I'm missing it won't accept balanced XLR in though, the official documentation says it does.  ???

I agree with Brad though, my curiosity stands on the reason for not wanting to go 148 > 661/fr2-le in?

I believe both decks share the same A/D chip, and sonically, you can't go wrong with either model, but I definately recommend either the Busman or Oade modded FR2LE or Oade Modded 661 over the stock versions.
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Offline skaggs

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2009, 08:07:09 PM »
m118 and m148 do not have balanced outputs.  i posted this after buying a 661 and finding out the hard way recording a show with noise on it.  i got that 661 back in march.  so running into the 148>661 through the xlr is not an option.  i have yet to try through the 1/8 input.  i have run a couple of soundboard>661, pretty good a/d, but not as good as a tascam p2, my main unit. 


Offline Red Boink

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2009, 11:30:06 PM »
mytek 192

Offline makers marc

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2009, 11:41:11 PM »
As drew said, "I like my cables like I like my women, ugly and loyal" and the fr2-le succeeds in that characteristic (for me). I do agree, the big ding is no-digi in and the 661 makes up for it. What was your reasoning as to why you want to avoid doing 148 > fr2-le/661 all via XLRs? I had to go look and the pics of the 148 I saw had XLR outs.

I'm only curious cause if you reject the SD series for expense, then if someone else can help you save money, it looks like you'd be interested.

edit: clarification

you get noise running the 148 into either the xlr of the fostex or the 661. You CAN run 1/4 inch into the fostex, according to Doug.
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Offline makers marc

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2009, 11:45:25 PM »
m118 and m148 do not have balanced outputs.  i posted this after buying a 661 and finding out the hard way recording a show with noise on it.  i got that 661 back in march.  so running into the 148>661 through the xlr is not an option.  i have yet to try through the 1/8 input.  i have run a couple of soundboard>661, pretty good a/d, but not as good as a tascam p2, my main unit. 



yeah, a good buddy had the same experience, and he also has yet to run his 118 1/8 in. he also luckily has a p-2. but he loves everything else about the deck, and in a pinch or for stealth, very nice size and ok sound running mic in.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2009, 12:00:13 AM »
You still trying to keep the weight down for your back, Marc?

Ditch the brick and go find yourself another freedom pre.  EAA>Sony D50 is an amazingly small setup, and the D50 line in sounds very good.



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Offline makers marc

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2009, 12:18:55 AM »
yeah, gotta keep it light for sure, Todd. Question, though...is your spare MD backup in the fanny pack? did that rig come with a lighter? I keed of course.  ;) Still miss the EAA  ; ; :'(
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Offline Todd R

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2009, 12:38:24 AM »
Dude, get with the program -- it's 24bit instead of dat these days, and your cell phone operates as a flashlight, no need for a lighter. ;D

I've got an Oade R44 for when I run 4ch stuff, but for 2ch, I've been running this rig.  Very compact obviously, and sounds quite good.

Unfortunately, to answer your question, there really aren't any small 24bit ADC's I know of -- just things like the V3, MMe, Mytek, AD2k.  Seems like a good line-in on a recorder is the best bet for keeping it small.  I guess Oade and Busman modded recorders might help on that front.  I do like the D50, but 3.5mm input only isn't something I'd normally recommend for a serious field rig.  With the EAA velcroed to the D50 like I have though, it keeps the 3.5mm input/output fairly secure so nothing gets pulled out.
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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2009, 01:23:06 AM »
you get noise running the 148 into either the xlr of the fostex or the 661. You CAN run 1/4 inch into the fostex, according to Doug.

yeah, the 1/4" TRS jacks are unbalanced and should be ok if you can get the appropriate cables or adaptors. If you get lucky and find the PSP2, then I agree with Todd and strip down the rig a bit. I'm trying not to fluff the fostex, but I think it would work for what your trying to do with a budget that isn't a doozy.
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Offline jlykos

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2009, 08:28:14 AM »
I agree with Todd, and not only because I run virtually the same rig.  There really aren't any 24 bit A/D converters that are small and portable except for something like the Mytek, which may be overkill.  At first, I was suspicious of the A/D on the D50, given the fact that their portable onboard DAT A/D converters were terrible.  I really like how the D50 sounds however, so Sony finally got it right, IMO.

Does the 148 have a 1/8" output?  I haven't had any problems with going 1/8" > 1/8" on my PSP-2 > D50 and it sounds fine.  If not, could you go XLR ? 1/8"?  While it may not seem secure and appear chintzy, in practice, the 1/8" input for the portable devices actually works well.

Bottom line, I would consider the Sony D50 or the Marantz 661 if you are trying to keep the rig to a reasonable size and with good quality.  When I was making this decision, I also looked at the Sound Devices machines and judged their onboard preamps to be total crap.  All of these units have good quality A/D converters, however, so I would recommend running one for a little while and seeing how it sounds before investing in a Mytek or something like that.
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Offline willndmb

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2009, 09:58:21 AM »
2 people in one thread that don't like the sd box
i agree though the sound doesn't do it for me UNLESS its with dpa
dpa are the only mic i like ran directly into the sd7xx

anyway i also agree the sd7xx is a "waste" if you are using it as a bit bucket

i find the fr2le and 661 great for the cost too

yeah i didn't post anything helpful -t  :P
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Offline skaggs

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2009, 10:00:04 AM »
you get noise running the 148 into either the xlr of the fostex or the 661. You CAN run 1/4 inch into the fostex, according to Doug.

yeah, the 1/4" TRS jacks are unbalanced and should be ok if you can get the appropriate cables or adaptors. If you get lucky and find the PSP2, then I agree with Todd and strip down the rig a bit. I'm trying not to fluff the fostex, but I think it would work for what your trying to do with a budget that isn't a doozy.

If you get even more lucky the batteries won't melt in that psp2!  sound great till the acid runs out on your gear.  

Offline makers marc

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2009, 11:07:53 AM »
who let the UK fan in?  ;D

I don't have a huge issue with running xlr>1/8, but the 1/8 is stock, and Doug isn't modding it yet.

the Mytek looks good, and no screwdriver. :P Pretty much decided on the 661. that way, I can appear to be modern, Todd, but I'll actaully be running 16/48 from the modsbm1 to the 661, old school style until I can pick up a Mytek. Tape like it's 1999.  ;D
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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2009, 12:55:26 PM »
Hey, Marc...

Not sure if you've ever looked at this littlebox project or the comments in and around this thread, but if you can wait and or want to suggest a development path to the builder, I'm thinking he might be able to fit your needs for a small package.  Might even consider a designing a dedicated unit that will retire the SBM-1.  Mine, BTW, is starting to heat up batteries like crazy.  Doug seems to think that it's the DC-DC converter going bad.

Mid 60's today, you should come "home" for a visit. ;D

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2009, 01:57:55 PM »
who let the UK fan in?  ;D

I don't have a huge issue with running xlr>1/8, but the 1/8 is stock, and Doug isn't modding it yet.

the Mytek looks good, and no screwdriver. :P Pretty much decided on the 661. that way, I can appear to be modern, Todd, but I'll actaully be running 16/48 from the modsbm1 to the 661, old school style until I can pick up a Mytek. Tape like it's 1999.  ;D
[/quote

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the a/d in that 661 is decent. 

Offline Todd R

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2009, 02:24:12 PM »

If you get even more lucky the batteries won't melt in that psp2!  sound great till the acid runs out on your gear.  

Not a problem running it with an external battery.  Actually, I'll leave it to a new thread with pictures sometime in the near future, but I just did an easy mod to my PSP2 to fix that problem.  Got a brand new battery sled since the old one was starting to crack, took out the internal spring battery connectors (since I think it was those connectors making an intermittent connection that was causing the problem), took a dremel tool to cut a notch right where the battery pack goes in to allow a small cable to pass, and then wired up a short ~3" coaxial connector/cable onto the new battery cage.  Put the battery cage (that only has the coaxial dc output on it) inside the PSP2, which now has no internal power connection so it won't screw up, extend the short cable outside the psp2 through the notch that was cut, and then plug in the internal battery pack to the external battery connector.  Keeps it low profile, no actual "external" battery pack, but the internal pack now connects through the robust external battery connection instead of those crappy internal spring connections that are nothing but trouble.

Anyway, pics and a new thread on that one soon. [/hijack]
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Offline jlykos

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2009, 04:13:15 PM »

If you get even more lucky the batteries won't melt in that psp2!  sound great till the acid runs out on your gear.  

Not a problem running it with an external battery.  Actually, I'll leave it to a new thread with pictures sometime in the near future, but I just did an easy mod to my PSP2 to fix that problem.  Got a brand new battery sled since the old one was starting to crack, took out the internal spring battery connectors (since I think it was those connectors making an intermittent connection that was causing the problem), took a dremel tool to cut a notch right where the battery pack goes in to allow a small cable to pass, and then wired up a short ~3" coaxial connector/cable onto the new battery cage.  Put the battery cage (that only has the coaxial dc output on it) inside the PSP2, which now has no internal power connection so it won't screw up, extend the short cable outside the psp2 through the notch that was cut, and then plug in the internal battery pack to the external battery connector.  Keeps it low profile, no actual "external" battery pack, but the internal pack now connects through the robust external battery connection instead of those crappy internal spring connections that are nothing but trouble.

Anyway, pics and a new thread on that one soon. [/hijack]

I have never had a problem with batteries leaking or anything of the sort in my PSP-2 and I use AA batteries exclusively.
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Offline makers marc

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2009, 04:15:03 PM »
Hey, Marc...

Not sure if you've ever looked at this littlebox project or the comments in and around this thread, but if you can wait and or want to suggest a development path to the builder, I'm thinking he might be able to fit your needs for a small package.  Might even consider a designing a dedicated unit that will retire the SBM-1.  Mine, BTW, is starting to heat up batteries like crazy.  Doug seems to think that it's the DC-DC converter going bad.

Mid 60's today, you should come "home" for a visit. ;D


good to hear from you, O-Dog, and yeah, I'm long overdue for a trip up North. I figure at some point my modsbm1 will crap out too, it's 8 years old, but has served like a champ. Thanks for the info, will definitely check out the thread. ;D


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Shining through the dance floor
Of heaven on a Saturday night.

Offline SClassical

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2009, 09:23:20 PM »
How does the mic2496 sound? That's a small 24 bit adc. I know WiFiJeff here has it or used it. He was going to use the Mic2496 V2 with his D50 at one point but don't know if he ever checked how it sounded compared to his D50 A/D.
Mics: DPA3552 kit/DPA3521 kit/DPA SMK4081 kit/DPA SMK4060 kit/Schoeps 2X MK21, 2X MK22 and 2X MK4v and 2X Schoeps CCM2S
Mixers/preamps: Sonosax SX-M32/Sonosax SX-M2 LS/Grace Design V3/DPA MMA6000/Millennia HV-32P
Recorders: SD722/PCM-D50/MT2
Playback: Grace m903 - Sennheiser HD650 / Bowers & Wilkins Nautilus 805s

Offline skaggs

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #25 on: July 19, 2009, 02:50:41 PM »
Hey Marc,

I think this is what you've been looking for.   ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHV0NPUjz54

peace!

Offline TNJazz

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #26 on: July 21, 2009, 12:16:10 AM »
go find yourself another freedom pre.

I didn't know WHAT the hell you were talking about until I looked at the pictures for a minute...

 ;D
Check out my band!  --> http://www.ninjadynamite.com

Offline Kindguy

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2009, 10:46:08 AM »

If you get even more lucky the batteries won't melt in that psp2!  sound great till the acid runs out on your gear.  

Not a problem running it with an external battery.  Actually, I'll leave it to a new thread with pictures sometime in the near future, but I just did an easy mod to my PSP2 to fix that problem.  Got a brand new battery sled since the old one was starting to crack, took out the internal spring battery connectors (since I think it was those connectors making an intermittent connection that was causing the problem), took a dremel tool to cut a notch right where the battery pack goes in to allow a small cable to pass, and then wired up a short ~3" coaxial connector/cable onto the new battery cage.  Put the battery cage (that only has the coaxial dc output on it) inside the PSP2, which now has no internal power connection so it won't screw up, extend the short cable outside the psp2 through the notch that was cut, and then plug in the internal battery pack to the external battery connector.  Keeps it low profile, no actual "external" battery pack, but the internal pack now connects through the robust external battery connection instead of those crappy internal spring connections that are nothing but trouble.

Anyway, pics and a new thread on that one soon. [/hijack]

I have never had a problem with batteries leaking or anything of the sort in my PSP-2 and I use AA batteries exclusively.

Same here on the PSP-2. Also You can flip the batt cage around when not in use, so the contacts don't touch.
TDS!

DPA 4023> aeta PSP-2> Apogee Mini Me > R-44

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Offline Matt Quinn

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2009, 09:08:58 PM »
You still trying to keep the weight down for your back, Marc?

Ditch the brick and go find yourself another freedom pre.  EAA>Sony D50 is an amazingly small setup, and the D50 line in sounds very good.






Where did you get that tiny cable? That is exactly what I need for my Nbox>R09.
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Offline Todd R

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2009, 12:33:47 AM »
Wish I could say -- it came with the PSP2 when I got it.
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Offline H₂O

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2009, 12:42:35 AM »
Try a Korg MR-1

They sound great support 24-192, have great gain control, and handle either balanced or unbalanced inputs.  Seemless splits and even supports DSD.

I sold my 702 to for cash for some more gear and an MR-1.

You can get them for $200-300 new and <$200 used.

Only drawback is power (you will need to use and external battery but since it uses 5v these are pretty easy to come by.
Music can at the least least explain you and at the most expand you
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Offline jerryfreak

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2009, 09:12:28 PM »
ad2ks arent all that big and i challenge you to find a better portable AD

Offline cottle

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2009, 09:26:04 PM »
There were some Fostex's in the ebay sales thread the other day for under $400. 

Offline brianp

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Re: decent small 24 bit adc?
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2009, 09:11:09 PM »
ad2ks arent all that big and i challenge you to find a better portable AD

I bet the Mytek 192 would give it a good run for the money and similarly sized.

Marc, 402x > Oade m148 > Sony D50 is awesome sounding and incredibly compact. If you want a full time portable 24 bit ADC def. check out the Mytek. I know you love the AD1K sound and it's in the same ballpark. Is the AD1K I sold you still kicking?

I've got quite a few 4021 > m148 > D50 and Mytek 192 recordings here if you wanna sample:
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/B_Porter
SBD>MR>C>D>CD>EAC>SHN

 

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