Topic: MM-HLSO (omnis) or MM-HLSC (cards)? (using "XY" or "MS" config while stealthing)

[fandelive]

Hello,

I'd like to upgrade my taping rig (SP-BMC-12 omnis (99$) > SP battery box w/bass roll-off filter > old generation Sony MD).

An Edirol R09HR is already on the way
I think I'm gonna keep using my SP battery box, but want new mics.

My budget is 250$ and I want to clip the mics on my body (no use of a mic stand and so on...).
So are the Microphone Madness high end products!

Omnis : http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmhlsomsenmi.htm
Cards : http://microphonemadness.com/products/mmhigsencars.htm

I found some MM-HLSC samples here : http://www.dutchtaper.com/gear.php
I'm thrilled by the sound clarity and definition, but wonder about the stereo spacing...

The "cons" about taping with cards is that you'll have to follow some mics configuration rules (XY, DIN...) if you don't want to miss part of the ambient sound.
Thus cardioid caps would not be the best choice for stealth taping, right?

The "pros" about taping with omnis is that you don't really have to wonder about mic configuration to get a good stereo spacing effet. Just go binaural and you're set. You don't have to care about not moving your head or body to keep a good stereo effect. You also get a more "live ambient" sound, which is what I used to like
On the other hand, you catch more basses and (on softer parts of the shows) more crowd chatters.

Also, I was wondering about why such an important price drop for the MM-HLSC-1  microphones (regular : 500$ > sale : 250$) in comparison to the MM-HLSO microphones (regular : 300$ > sale : 250$).

I know that getting good results depends on many factors such as room acoustics, mics configuration, finding the best taping spot and so on...
But focusing only on sound clarity/definition and in regard of both products regular price, will the results be much better with the cards than with the omnis?

Edit : just mailed Microphone Madness about that point...

I don't know as I wasn't able to put my hands on any sample!!!

Just help me making up my mind please
I can consider another brand if it's still miniature mics and in my 250$ budget.

Thanks!

[darktrain]

I think you will find that cardioid caps in general are the most versatile cap, i have used the hlsc-1 for a couple years now in all kinds of situations and have had some fantastic results, i modded them with the 4.7k low sens mod for metal/rock shows and use the mic in on the marantz pmd620 and use a ca9100 preamp for the quieter stuffvery low profile setup, i used a couple different omnis including the dpa4060 and 4061 and they came off very boomy and if you are in a arena or outdoor venue omnis are very challenged unless you are against the stacks, you pick up more crowd noise in those large venues with omnis

[Belexes]

I like to have a choice before I head out to the show given my seat location, music I will be recording, type of crowd, so I have both omni and card choices, not just one or the other.

I know you are set on MM's, but you should give Church Audio a good look as well.  For your budget, you could get both cards and omnis.

I owned the MM-HLSC-1 at one time and had the 4.7k mod done to them.  I liked the sound clarity of them, but it lacked enough bass response for my ears.

I know we have some MM-HLSO omni fans here on the board that can chime in about those. I have no experience with them.

[nickee]

Also, I was wondering about why such an important price drop for the MM-HLSC-1  microphones (regular : 500$ > sale : 250$) in comparison to the MM-HLSO microphones (regular : 300$ > sale : 250$).

The MM-HLSC-1 has always been $250. At least since 2005 when I got mine.

[fandelive]

I know you are set on MM's, but you should give Church Audio a good look as well.  For your budget, you could get both cards and omnis.

I owned the MM-HLSC-1 at one time and had the 4.7k mod done to them.  I liked the sound clarity of them, but it lacked enough bass response for my ears.

I already own a set of omnis from Soundprofessionals.

I've been listening to some live shows over at archive.org that were recorded with the CA-14's. Great mics! They provide the perfect amount of bass response, but middles and highs are better defined with the MM's I think. A mix of both would sound great!

As for getting more bass response, has it to do with mics configuration?
I'd be interested in having some stealth tapers feedbacks : I don't think it's fair to use cardioid caps if you just clip them to the collar of your shirt or mount them to your eye-glasses. You can't get a proper spacial (and especially basses) response if you go "A B" or binaural with cardioids, right?

Do stealth tapers use "X Y" or "M S" configuration then? I think you're "bound" to do that if you use cardioids and want natural spacialisation results.
It's hard to keep the right angle when you can't use a stand. You have to use a hat and any single move from you during the show is gonna create some "spacial move" and will be audible on your tape.

[acidjack]

I know you are set on MM's, but you should give Church Audio a good look as well.  For your budget, you could get both cards and omnis.

I owned the MM-HLSC-1 at one time and had the 4.7k mod done to them.  I liked the sound clarity of them, but it lacked enough bass response for my ears.

I already own a set of omnis from Soundprofessionals.

I've been listening to some live shows over at archive.org that were recorded with the CA-14's. Great mics! They provide the perfect amount of bass response, but middles and highs are better defined with the MM's I think. A mix of both would sound great!

As for getting more bass response, has it to do with mics configuration?
I'd be interested in having some stealth tapers feedbacks : I don't think it's fair to use cardioid caps if you just clip them to the collar of your shirt or mount them to your eye-glasses. You can't get a proper spacial (and especially basses) response if you go "A B" or binaural with cardioids, right?

Do stealth tapers use "X Y" or "M S" configuration then? I think you're "bound" to do that if you use cardioids and want natural spacialisation results.
It's hard to keep the right angle when you can't use a stand. You have to use a hat and any single move from you during the show is gonna create some "spacial move" and will be audible on your tape.

I know some people attempt something resembling XY in a hat mount, but in general if you are self-mounting mics (stealth or otherwise) it is pretty hard to achieve any of the true patterns. I would guess most people are just pointing the mics forward.  Others can feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I've gotten very good bass response out of my AKG ck91s just by pointing them mostly forward (though trying to angle them out as best I could)....sometimes so much bass I had to trim it some.  Would I be happier if I could achieve true DIN in a self-mounted application? Yes. But I don't see it happening.

[Belexes]

I've been listening to some live shows over at archive.org that were recorded with the CA-14's. Great mics! They provide the perfect amount of bass response, but middles and highs are better defined with the MM's I think. A mix of both would sound great!

I agree with you there. I am more of a fan of increased bass response, which is why I prefer the CA-14's.  Typically for mics in the $100 - $250, it's tough to find a cardioid mic that gives you enough bass, but the CA-14 fits the bill as do the AT853's.  If anyone did a matrix of the MM's and the CA-14's, it'd probably be perfect.

I think the bass response has more to do the capsules themselves than the configuration.  I've done fine with A-B.  When you are stealthing, your options for configurations can get limited, but some folks here have thought up imaginative mounts.  I run mine in a DIN-ish fashion.

[darktrain]

I like to have a choice before I head out to the show given my seat location, music I will be recording, type of crowd, so I have both omni and card choices, not just one or the other.

I know you are set on MM's, but you should give Church Audio a good look as well.  For your budget, you could get both cards and omnis.

I owned the MM-HLSC-1 at one time and had the 4.7k mod done to them.  I liked the sound clarity of them, but it lacked enough bass response for my ears.

I know we have some MM-HLSO omni fans here on the board that can chime in about those. I have no experience with them.

Sometimes the bass can be a little light in larger venues but in smaller clubs and theatres i have always found there to be plenty of bass with the hlsc's and i have used just about every mic out there, personally i just think they are the most versatile to my ears, thats taking nothing away from any of the other mics at all

[illconditioned]

I like to have a choice before I head out to the show given my seat location, music I will be recording, type of crowd, so I have both omni and card choices, not just one or the other.

I know you are set on MM's, but you should give Church Audio a good look as well.  For your budget, you could get both cards and omnis.

I owned the MM-HLSC-1 at one time and had the 4.7k mod done to them.  I liked the sound clarity of them, but it lacked enough bass response for my ears.

I know we have some MM-HLSO omni fans here on the board that can chime in about those. I have no experience with them.

Sometimes the bass can be a little light in larger venues but in smaller clubs and theatres i have always found there to be plenty of bass with the hlsc's and i have used just about every mic out there, personally i just think they are the most versatile to my ears, thats taking nothing away from any of the other mics at all

I would agree, the MM cards (aka Sennheiser MKE40) are really nice mics.  Great clarity in the vocal range and a nice "warm" sound.

   Richard

[fandelive]

Listen to track 5 here : http://www.archive.org/details/kd32006-07-27.flac.

Perfect amount of bass and done using HLSC-1's