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Author Topic: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones  (Read 7089 times)

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Offline achabloop5080

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Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« on: September 03, 2009, 09:21:58 AM »
Hi guys,
this is my first post in this wonderful forum.
I'm in the middle of a very important gear update: now I got Schoeps CMC5 MK2S (stereo matched) and also bought additional capsules (2xMK21 e 2xMK4 all stereo matched).
I'm a classical pianist and my plan is to record my next classical solo piano cds (mainly live recordings in beautiful acoustics but also studio recordings) but with no compromise in quality (possibly).
I'd like to buy the "definitive" stereo preamp and A/D converter, in the past I changed too often from entry level mics and recording gear to middle level and lose money.....
I also can't audition every pre/converter combos so I need your pro helps: for preamp I'm leaning toward Crookwood Painpot, but other candidates are Millennia, Grace Designs (Lunatec V3 has A/D on board but seems a bit middle level unit), DAV, Forssell, Neve Portico, A-Designs Pacifica ...
For the A/D stage again many possibilities...
I'll record with only 2 mics, MK2S or MK21.
Any suggestions?
Thank you

Offline Walstib62

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2009, 09:36:33 AM »
Have you thought about a good tube preamp? You might enjoy the "warm" sound that they produce. There are also hybrid amps that have both tube and solid state. I would recommend that you contact these guys:http://www.soundpure.com/index.jsp
Tell them what yo want to do. They are very knowledgeable. I hope when you get rolling that you can post some sound samples here for us to listen to.


Offline edtyre

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2009, 10:48:31 AM »
I record much louder types of music, but sometimes quiet acoustic stuff.
I'm sold on my set-up that i currently use.

schoeps mk2s/mk4/mk41 > cmc6 > Grace V3 > Benchmark ad2k+ > recorder

The Portico would be a fine substitute for the Grace.
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline WiFiJeff

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2009, 01:35:11 PM »
I have recorded classical piano, and find that I like the sound of the V3 going analog-out to a Sound Devices 722 more than using the V3 A/D.  But I haven't used the MK21 caps.

Jeff

Offline Red Boink

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2009, 06:32:03 AM »
DAV BG1

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2009, 07:37:57 AM »
I would go w/as neutral a preamp as you can find, which will lend itself to be more open to the scheops "sound", which...IMO, you want to keep as much as possible ...especially running the MK2s and recording a grand piano.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2009, 08:24:57 AM »
"Definitive" is a tricky concept. There's far more subjectivity involved in it than the word would imply; definitive of what, to whom?

Nothing is odder than listening to the fans of various performers debate which is the "definitive" recording of a certain piece--a debate which simply would not occur if any of the available recordings were objectively definitive. Sometimes a composer's own recordings don't make the grade because some other way of performing his music has convinced the listeners more than the composer's own conception of it (e.g. Fritz Reiner vs. Richard Strauss conducting Strauss' tone poems).

But back to the subject, you might want to consider that Schoeps makes a portable preamp for their microphones, the VMS 5U; some people here use it and like it a lot. Of the studio (rack-mounted) preamps you mentioned, I would pay special attenion to Millenia Media. Another name to consider, though you didn't mention it, would be John Hardy.

In terms of objective quality (measurable and audible performance) I don't consider the little Grace preamps to be middle-tier at all, despite their popularity among advanced amateurs. For my own portable recording, mainly with Schoeps microphones, I often use a Lunatec V3. It's sonically transparent, completely reliable, has good metering, and its phantom powering is correctly implemented.

Edited later to add: Due to a misunderstanding about what was to become public information when, I failed to mention above that Schoeps is also introducing a two-channel, rack-mount studio microphone preamp called the VSR 5. It's based on the circuit which their engineers have used in-house for a number of years for developing, measuring and evaluating their microphones.

Edited even later to add: Sound Devices also offers portable preamps that have excellent input headroom (which you need for piano recording with professional condenser microphones), proper phantom powering and good rejection of radio-frequency interference. They're very rugged and well engineered for the real world.

« Last Edit: December 26, 2009, 06:42:22 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline notlance

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2009, 11:18:33 AM »
I have a problem with "definitive" gear also.  At the risk of being branded a heretic without Golden Ears, I have found that once the gear gets to a certain level of competence I either A) Can't hear any difference, B) Can't decide which sound I like better or C) The gear becomes unimportant compared to the EMI problem/noisy AC/bad performance/out-of-tune piano/bad mic placement....  So seek opinions and do some listening but whatever sounds good and works well for you is definitive.

What drives me crazy is when people (mostly in marketing departments) come up with some voodoo science to "explain" why their cable or pre-amp or whatever sounds wonderful.  Design a good product, sell it for a competitive price, and spare me the mumbo-jumbo.

Offline Walstib62

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2009, 03:11:47 PM »
Very well spoken, guys. You're right, there is no singular, definitive answer. Try out as much as you can, both solid state and tube/hybrids and see what sounds the best to you.



Take Care!

Offline Kevin Straker

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2009, 07:43:52 PM »
I'd go with the V3. You don't need a transformer or tube based pre. The mics will provide all the full sound you need. The V3 has a very clean transparent sound especially on acoustic instruments. I would use the 21 or the omni caps and run analog out of the V3 into the 7XX recorder.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2009, 01:05:04 PM by Kevin Straker »
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Offline terrapinj

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 07:55:36 PM »
lunatec v2 > benchmark ad2k+
JW mod AKG 460b (ck61/ck63 or mk46/ck1x/ck3x)>  EAA PSP-2 > 722

Segue Dogstar XLRs and Interconnects

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Offline Kyle

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2009, 08:51:29 PM »
lunatec v2 > benchmark ad2k+

yup, that's it!

Although the PSP-2 tops that list as well.

After running both, I am really torn - suppose it is what I am in the mood for - transparency or transformers.
Schoeps CMC6/MK4  //  Nakamichi CM-300/CP-1/CP-2
E.A.A. PSP-2   // Grace Design Lunatec V2
Sonic AD2K+ 
Tascam HD-P2 (Oade BCM)  //  Sony TC-D5 PROII
 
Duncan - 12/84 > 8/8/05 - Miss you everyday

Offline terrapinj

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2009, 10:10:28 PM »
lunatec v2 > benchmark ad2k+

yup, that's it!

Although the PSP-2 tops that list as well.

After running both, I am really torn - suppose it is what I am in the mood for - transparency or transformers.

aerco mp-2 may be a good call as well since its much easier to find that psp2 and the variable gain is much friendlier with the ad2k

still haven't heard one with the schoeps and ad2k, but i bet its (o)(o)
JW mod AKG 460b (ck61/ck63 or mk46/ck1x/ck3x)>  EAA PSP-2 > 722

Segue Dogstar XLRs and Interconnects

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stevetoney

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 04:41:23 PM »
The one comment I'd like to add for the sake of the original poster is that you should be aware that the majority of people on this list are familiar with the Grace V2 and V3, while the portico would rate a distant second in familiarity and I'd be willing to bet that very few people know anything about the other products you mention.

Make what you will with that piece of information, but I could have told you without even looking at the responses that the V3 was gonna be the most popular response because of the audience that you posed the question to.

I'm not trying to claim that the V3 isn't worthy (I own one too), I'm just adding my thoughts that the response to the question isn't an objective response when so many people use one of the products that you list without having any experience with the others.

My two cents.

Offline Kevin Straker

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Re: Definitive stereo pre and A/D for Schoeps microphones
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2009, 09:07:34 AM »
I'm not trying to claim that the V3 isn't worthy (I own one too), I'm just adding my thoughts that the response to the question isn't an objective response when so many people use one of the products that you list without having any experience with the others.

My two cents.
That's slightly presumptuous. I have personally owned several different preamps and used several others on occasion. While I am not familiar with all of the gear mentioned by the OP, I do have plenty of experience with the mics he mentioned. I have run them with a V3,PSP2,PSP3,M148, and straight in to a 722. For unamplified classical music I still say that the best sound will come from the cleaner sounding, non-transformer based pre. In my list this would include the PSP3 or the V3. Either one will make a very fine recording coupled with the 2 or 21 caps. I choose the V3 for it's ease of use, nice meters and flexible features.
People on ludes should not drive...
J. Spicoli

mk4,mk21>kc5>cmc6>V3>SD722

 

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