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Author Topic: stealth taping -- rain  (Read 15114 times)

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Offline page

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2009, 11:30:48 AM »
What I find funny about this thread and others like it is that, I'd be willing to bet that alot of the same people that are recommending not to worry about the mics getting wet would post in the yard sale that their gear has been babied and kept in a smoke free environment. 

If you're so confident that allowing mics (other than 4060s) is OK, would you be willing to say so in your YS listing when you're trying to sell your gear?  I doubt it.

Really I don't care what anyone does with their gear, but it does bother me a little that these posts give noobs what I believe to be the wrong impression that it's OK to let your mics get soaked.

Funny, I just assume that all gear on this board has been treated this way.  No need for a disclaimer IME, this is field gear not studio gear.  So it's been in the field, which for probably most of us means rock concerts, inside in smoky venues (even non-smoking venues have people who will smoke), inside in venues where they use fog machines (which are basically particulate machines if you ask me), outside potentially in rainy conditions, outside in major humidity in many areas of the country, outside in a dust bowl.  Babied to me means you try your best to protect your equipment despite the difficult conditions we tape in.

I don't have a problem with people who don't want to take their gear out in potentially rainy conditions, but it's a little silly to think we need disclaimers on gear sales -- again I think from the context of this board we can assume it is field gear.  Why only disclaimers for rain, how about disclaimers for using mics outside in humidity (there goes sales from all of the south, and PA probably based on my recent taping excursion in Philly), or sales from places that don't have anti-smoking laws, etc, etc?  Or perhaps a disclaimer that the gear was used in places where alcohol was sold/consumed, since we all know the dangers of drunks and our gear.

For my part, I tape outdoors in Colorado, which means that pretty much always you have a chance of rain (and with proper planning, your mics certainly don't get soaked even if it does rain).  If you don't want to tape in the rain, you won't be taping outdoors in Colorado.  But I'd still take a brief passing shower with my mics protected and under an umbrella than taping all the time where the humidity is 90+.  And I've been taping in Kansas at Wakarusa where it was a serious dust bowl -- all those micro-particulates cannot be good for a mic's diaphragm.

Anyway, food for thought, but I'd say most of the places most of us tape in aren't the best for the equipment.

I'd put a disclaimer if I wasn't selling this stuff on this board, but I think it's par for the course here; "Field gear," it's what we do. I don't "baby" my gear, but I do take good care of it. I've tried to get into the practice on sending my mic equipment back periodically to someone who can look it over, clean it up if needed, and replace any parts as necessary (shooting for once a year with heavy use, maybe every 18 months, so far so good).

I guess if your going to baby your gear and only use it in pristine conditions, then yeah, you wouldn't need that. What I do may be overkill as is, dunno.
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stevetoney

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2009, 12:05:16 PM »
What I find funny about this thread ...

Funny, I just assume that all gear ...

Todd...I don't disagree with your points.  FWIW, I'm not advocating disclaimers nor am I trying to pass judgement about what the term 'babied' necessarily means...you're absolutely right, it's field gear and therefore it's subject to the rigors of the field.

OTOH, there's a difference between gear that's been used alot in the field and gear that's been neglected. 

I have to say that I disagree fairly strongly with people that are claiming it's perfectly OK to leave your mics out in the rain and allow them to get soaked...this is hella lot different situation than a taper that gets caught in the sudden downpour and the gear gets wet while they're trying to get umbrella's, baggies, etc set up.

Apparently, people are judging this issue by the fact that the mics typically dry out and work again after they've dried out.

For reasons that I've already stated, long term degradation and corrosion product build-up are totally valid issues that can lead to functional failure over time...issues that would not exist if the mics weren't allowed deliberately to get soaked. 

So, yeah if I were contemplating chucking over $1000 for a pair of schoeps capsules and I discovered they they'd gone through a few downpours unprotected, there's pretty much no way I'd buy them.

EDIT:  For clarity, I'm talking about the people that say to go ahead and let the mics get soaked because they have experiences that the mics still work during the rain in an unprotected state and that they work after they dry out again.  To me, that's NOT proof that it's OK to leave the mics unprotected from rain because of concern for long term corrosion.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 12:15:35 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2009, 01:33:22 PM »
tonedeaf--

I really wish that you would stop using the word "soaked".  I haven't read one post so far that even REMOTELY advocates, encourages, or suggests that allowing mics to get "soaked" is okay and advisable.  All of us are responding to the OP's question: "Any tips/advice about taping in the rain would be very much appreciated."

That you have decided never to tape in the rain is great.  I believe that everyone can agree that leaving your mics home on wet days is certainly safer than bringing them out.  But you seem far too inclined to assume that there is absolutely no way whatsoever you can bring mics out in the rain and have them stay dry.  It seems a little silly to me, honestly.  Certainly you could, if you wanted to, bring a cotton ball with you on a rainy stroll through town and, with proper preparation, not worry about it getting wet.  Granted mics and recording devices do have a few more considerations than cotton balls, but it is still agonizingly inaccurate to assume that there is no way whatsoever to bring them out without having them "soaked" or even remotely damp.  Really, without having them get even slightly wet in any capacity.

Without giving away too much (since we're still talking stealth, here), I wear the mics with condoms, tied off with elastic bungee type string, about 1 inch below a wide brim waterproof hat (Driza-Bone-- name says it all).  From there cables run directly into an inside pocket in a very water proof coat, which has my recording gear all in bags-- two bags each-- taped and sealed. 

Everything gets rigorously hand dried and allowed to air dry before any waterproofing is removed. 

To presume that it is impossible to keep something dry in the rain is ridiculous, and even more unfair is to insist on using the word "soaked."  I would be willing to bet that my mics stay absolutely 110% bone dry during this sort of situation.  Again, I'd never encourage anyone to do something that they're uncomfortable with with their mics, but to the OP's request for information about how to accomplish his / her goal, I feel that the best advise that could be given a) affirms that taping in the rain is serious and far more dangerous than taping in a dry environment, and b) goes on to explain what steps are necessary to see to it that your gear stays safe, should you decide to move ahead and tape.

ymmv
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 01:35:02 PM by travelinbeat »
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

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Offline Moke

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2009, 01:41:47 PM »
soaked is a relative term.
the space between the capsule and backplate of a certain danish manufacturers mics is electron-micoscope small.
I'm not a scientist, but I bet you can't stack too many water molecules together before you span that kind of gap.
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stevetoney

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2009, 03:51:37 PM »
^^  :) LOL...not only that, but I was indeed referring to SOAKED. 

There have been a couple of people in this thread say they don't cover their mics at all when it rains and my responses were directed at those comments. 

I already said this once, but these responses are made mainly for the sake of noobs, so they don't get the impression that the majority of people advocate allowing your mics to be unprotected when it starts to rain.

99% or more of the tapers that I know, myself included, put their mics under a small umbrella when it starts to rain (or in the case of stealth, put them in a condom or under the bill of your hat).  It doesn't necessarily protect the mics from humidity, but it does protect them from getting soaked.  ;)

« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 03:54:05 PM by tonedeaf »

Offline Moke

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2009, 04:30:27 PM »
lets talk oxidation and tin whiskers.
tin whiskers take out billion dollar satellites. They'll laugh at your toys.
We used to have lead solder that was more stable. Now we have alloys, and this whiskering issue.
Anyone want to throw the oxidizer into the mix?
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Offline M

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2009, 05:01:10 PM »
All electronics have a finite lifespan.  There is humidity everywhere among other nastys that will hurt your gear.

Yes, you can help to prolong the life of electronics by keeping it in a low humidity environment.

Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.  Weigh the risks and be as prepared as you can.

It is a good idea to store your gear with moisture absorbing packs even if you don't *think* you tape in humidity.


 

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Offline travelinbeat

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2009, 05:20:41 PM »
All electronics have a finite lifespan.  There is humidity everywhere among other nastys that will hurt your gear.

Yes, you can help to prolong the life of electronics by keeping it in a low humidity environment.

Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.  Weigh the risks and be as prepared as you can.

It is a good idea to store your gear with moisture absorbing packs even if you don't *think* you tape in humidity.
all qtf

Another thing I do, in lieu of having a moisture absorbing bag is keep all of those "DO NOT EAT" things you get.  Those little Silcone gel (?) things are designed to keep their environment dry.  I keep those in all of my gearbag pockets and all cases, etc.  A poor man's alternative, but certainly better than nothing
 


[/quote]
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

Team DC · Team Naiant · Team Busman · Team Church Audio · NFL Team is NY Jets

I tape in earnest dedication to the mission of breaking the back of the CTOA

Offline illconditioned

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2009, 05:47:06 PM »
I was at a festival (Hillside, Guelph Ontario Canada) and the soundguy had a pair of I think Rode (?) LDC mics out in front of the soundboard.  In front of the covered sound area.  It was crazy rain all weekend, and the guy just did not care.  I couldn't help going up and asking what's up.  He said, Oh, I leave the Neumans in the truck when it rains.  Just painful to watch *any* mics at risk...

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Depechemode1993

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2009, 07:07:33 PM »
Yeah... for sure I want to get all of my money's worth out of my mics, tapin' rain or shine baby!!! (with an umbrella of course  ;) )

Offline su6oxone

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2009, 07:31:17 PM »
All this humidity and corrosion talk has got me thinking that I ought to start using those little silica packets too.  I searched on ebay and it looks like the packets commonly come in varying sizes, including 1gm, 5gm, etc.  Anyone know what a 'standard' size packet is?  I don't know if I have any on hand for comparison, but will keep the next one I come across.

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2009, 08:12:33 PM »
I throw those in my kit bags whenever I find them in electronics packaging.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2009, 08:56:27 PM »
You can buy jumbo sized desiccant packs at the hardware store or supermarket. Damp-rid is a common brand with a box of 5 or so 3"x5" packets.  Besides keeping them with my taping gear, I toss a couple of those in the case of my 'good' acoustic guitar. In other parts of the country people need to humidify their guitars, here we need to dry 'em out.

Not stealth, but I was just looking for a photo that now appears I never took. The fair weather version is below. When the rain blew in late in the afternoon, the Geffs came down and got packed in the waterproof case. But the Blumlein rigged ADKs stayed up under an stand umbrella, mics and vert-bar wrapped in drycleaner-thin disposable rain-poncho plastic down to stand & wire level.  The shock-mount baskets top and bottom created a frame to support the plastic, tensioned and secured with gaff tape. Took a bit of effort to get the plastic well tensioned to squelch wind rustling but worked perfectly. A few serious gales blew rain sideways which would have soaked the mics otherwise.  The weather threatened but didn't make much noise for the headliners and I can hear no sonic issues at all with the wrap-job'd recordings.  Completely dry once broken down, I still packed the gear with damp-rid packs in the trunk over night back at camp and in their storage case back at home. All a risk calculated as acceptable, but also partly an entertaining field-recording challenge.

Edit- I've had flown 4060s caught in a downpour, wrung out the wind screens, shook the water out of the mics and kept rollin' no problem.  Gave them the distilled rinse and desiccant packing once I got home too but I honestly don't worry about water with those, like I do for normal condensers.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2009, 09:01:38 PM by Gutbucket »
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Depechemode1993

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #43 on: September 16, 2009, 10:34:19 AM »
are 4061's also waterproof? why would they only make the 4060?

Offline M

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Re: stealth taping -- rain
« Reply #44 on: September 16, 2009, 01:50:53 PM »
are 4061's also waterproof? why would they only make the 4060?

yes
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