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Author Topic: How long will a Denecke PS-2 power DPA 4021 (and other 4021-related power q's)  (Read 5725 times)

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Offline acidjack

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I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on some much-longed-for DPA 4021s from a member here and am trying to figure out my powering solutions.

Currently I run an R-09HR and have a littlebox on the way.  I probably will wait and see how it works for truly portable use, but from the looks of it, sticking the littlebox in my lowpro bag (basically just an unpadded messenger bag) looks like it will be awkward. I'm familiar with the profile of the PS-2 from having a Zefiro InBox aka AD20 back in the day.

However, I've read on here that the PS-2 doesn't last very long.  My thought is that the 4021s, being so small, might not be that power hungry, but I am hoping to get some guidance from others.

Other ideas I've had are a) get an R-44, which while not usable for "stealth" can certainly be carried in a shoulder bag and doesn't weigh much (I'd like one of these anyway to go 4-ch), b) get something midway between an R-09HR and an R-44 like a PMD661, but this seems like a bad compromise b/c it's still not small enough for true low-profile use but isn't as feature-rich as an R-44 and probably won't sound any better than the littlebox>R-09HR combo or c) get something like a Tascam DR-100, which I hear ALSO doesn't last long, but maybe get a small external power supply for it (how small are these?) for it, which would still result in there being only a total of 3 boxes.

Thoughts?
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline tedyun

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The PS-2 has a jack that would allow you to attach an external battery pack. It takes anywhere from 7V up. I have a Lithium power pack that is fairly small called the Powerbank. This looks like a clone of what I have, and it's for a pretty good price too!

http://store.l-f-l.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&pg=prod&ref=UP220&op=UP220&bd=PowerBank&sd=&md=Universal&CMP=BAC-froogle

You could also hook up a DVD battery to it, but then those are bulkier than what you are looking for.


I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on some much-longed-for DPA 4021s from a member here and am trying to figure out my powering solutions.

Currently I run an R-09HR and have a littlebox on the way.  I probably will wait and see how it works for truly portable use, but from the looks of it, sticking the littlebox in my lowpro bag (basically just an unpadded messenger bag) looks like it will be awkward. I'm familiar with the profile of the PS-2 from having a Zefiro InBox aka AD20 back in the day.

However, I've read on here that the PS-2 doesn't last very long.  My thought is that the 4021s, being so small, might not be that power hungry, but I am hoping to get some guidance from others.

Other ideas I've had are a) get an R-44, which while not usable for "stealth" can certainly be carried in a shoulder bag and doesn't weigh much (I'd like one of these anyway to go 4-ch), b) get something midway between an R-09HR and an R-44 like a PMD661, but this seems like a bad compromise b/c it's still not small enough for true low-profile use but isn't as feature-rich as an R-44 and probably won't sound any better than the littlebox>R-09HR combo or c) get something like a Tascam DR-100, which I hear ALSO doesn't last long, but maybe get a small external power supply for it (how small are these?) for it, which would still result in there being only a total of 3 boxes.

Thoughts?
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline acidjack

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Thanks -- although I just feel like (correct me if I'm wrong), if I have to get an external battery anyway, I might as well get such a thing and just run the DR-100, so that I have 3 boxes instead of 4, no?

The PS-2 has a jack that would allow you to attach an external battery pack. It takes anywhere from 7V up. I have a Lithium power pack that is fairly small called the Powerbank. This looks like a clone of what I have, and it's for a pretty good price too!

http://store.l-f-l.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&pg=prod&ref=UP220&op=UP220&bd=PowerBank&sd=&md=Universal&CMP=BAC-froogle

You could also hook up a DVD battery to it, but then those are bulkier than what you are looking for.


I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on some much-longed-for DPA 4021s from a member here and am trying to figure out my powering solutions.

Currently I run an R-09HR and have a littlebox on the way.  I probably will wait and see how it works for truly portable use, but from the looks of it, sticking the littlebox in my lowpro bag (basically just an unpadded messenger bag) looks like it will be awkward. I'm familiar with the profile of the PS-2 from having a Zefiro InBox aka AD20 back in the day.

However, I've read on here that the PS-2 doesn't last very long.  My thought is that the 4021s, being so small, might not be that power hungry, but I am hoping to get some guidance from others.

Other ideas I've had are a) get an R-44, which while not usable for "stealth" can certainly be carried in a shoulder bag and doesn't weigh much (I'd like one of these anyway to go 4-ch), b) get something midway between an R-09HR and an R-44 like a PMD661, but this seems like a bad compromise b/c it's still not small enough for true low-profile use but isn't as feature-rich as an R-44 and probably won't sound any better than the littlebox>R-09HR combo or c) get something like a Tascam DR-100, which I hear ALSO doesn't last long, but maybe get a small external power supply for it (how small are these?) for it, which would still result in there being only a total of 3 boxes.

Thoughts?
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline tedyun

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If money's no object!  ;D

Then again >$2000 for the DPAs, what's another $400 for the DR-100?  >:D


Thanks -- although I just feel like (correct me if I'm wrong), if I have to get an external battery anyway, I might as well get such a thing and just run the DR-100, so that I have 3 boxes instead of 4, no?

The PS-2 has a jack that would allow you to attach an external battery pack. It takes anywhere from 7V up. I have a Lithium power pack that is fairly small called the Powerbank. This looks like a clone of what I have, and it's for a pretty good price too!

http://store.l-f-l.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&pg=prod&ref=UP220&op=UP220&bd=PowerBank&sd=&md=Universal&CMP=BAC-froogle

You could also hook up a DVD battery to it, but then those are bulkier than what you are looking for.


I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on some much-longed-for DPA 4021s from a member here and am trying to figure out my powering solutions.

Currently I run an R-09HR and have a littlebox on the way.  I probably will wait and see how it works for truly portable use, but from the looks of it, sticking the littlebox in my lowpro bag (basically just an unpadded messenger bag) looks like it will be awkward. I'm familiar with the profile of the PS-2 from having a Zefiro InBox aka AD20 back in the day.

However, I've read on here that the PS-2 doesn't last very long.  My thought is that the 4021s, being so small, might not be that power hungry, but I am hoping to get some guidance from others.

Other ideas I've had are a) get an R-44, which while not usable for "stealth" can certainly be carried in a shoulder bag and doesn't weigh much (I'd like one of these anyway to go 4-ch), b) get something midway between an R-09HR and an R-44 like a PMD661, but this seems like a bad compromise b/c it's still not small enough for true low-profile use but isn't as feature-rich as an R-44 and probably won't sound any better than the littlebox>R-09HR combo or c) get something like a Tascam DR-100, which I hear ALSO doesn't last long, but maybe get a small external power supply for it (how small are these?) for it, which would still result in there being only a total of 3 boxes.

Thoughts?
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline acidjack

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QFT.  Also, to be fair, the mini-terminated PS-2 is I think nearly $300, so with the cost of that power supply, not that much difference.

If money's no object!  ;D

Then again >$2000 for the DPAs, what's another $400 for the DR-100?  >:D


Thanks -- although I just feel like (correct me if I'm wrong), if I have to get an external battery anyway, I might as well get such a thing and just run the DR-100, so that I have 3 boxes instead of 4, no?

The PS-2 has a jack that would allow you to attach an external battery pack. It takes anywhere from 7V up. I have a Lithium power pack that is fairly small called the Powerbank. This looks like a clone of what I have, and it's for a pretty good price too!

http://store.l-f-l.com/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?rrc=N&pg=prod&ref=UP220&op=UP220&bd=PowerBank&sd=&md=Universal&CMP=BAC-froogle

You could also hook up a DVD battery to it, but then those are bulkier than what you are looking for.


I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on some much-longed-for DPA 4021s from a member here and am trying to figure out my powering solutions.

Currently I run an R-09HR and have a littlebox on the way.  I probably will wait and see how it works for truly portable use, but from the looks of it, sticking the littlebox in my lowpro bag (basically just an unpadded messenger bag) looks like it will be awkward. I'm familiar with the profile of the PS-2 from having a Zefiro InBox aka AD20 back in the day.

However, I've read on here that the PS-2 doesn't last very long.  My thought is that the 4021s, being so small, might not be that power hungry, but I am hoping to get some guidance from others.

Other ideas I've had are a) get an R-44, which while not usable for "stealth" can certainly be carried in a shoulder bag and doesn't weigh much (I'd like one of these anyway to go 4-ch), b) get something midway between an R-09HR and an R-44 like a PMD661, but this seems like a bad compromise b/c it's still not small enough for true low-profile use but isn't as feature-rich as an R-44 and probably won't sound any better than the littlebox>R-09HR combo or c) get something like a Tascam DR-100, which I hear ALSO doesn't last long, but maybe get a small external power supply for it (how small are these?) for it, which would still result in there being only a total of 3 boxes.

Thoughts?
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline tedyun

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I misunderstood -- I thought you already had the PS-2. Yeah, I would definitely go for something like the DR-100 if you wanted to go low-pro with these.

QFT.  Also, to be fair, the mini-terminated PS-2 is I think nearly $300, so with the cost of that power supply, not that much difference.


Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline su6oxone

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Also, to be fair, the mini-terminated PS-2 is I think nearly $300

Sound Pro sells them for around $200 I think for the 1/8" output modded PS-2.  In terms of battery life, I can tell you from personal experience that the PS-2 powered a pair of Neumann KM184s for about 5 hours with a standard Duracell 9V, and a pair of Schoeps MK4/CMC6s for about 4 hours.  It's just long enough to be useful for taping shows.

Offline tedyun

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http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=128862.0

Wow -- its gotta be a sign.


I misunderstood -- I thought you already had the PS-2. Yeah, I would definitely go for something like the DR-100 if you wanted to go low-pro with these.

QFT.  Also, to be fair, the mini-terminated PS-2 is I think nearly $300, so with the cost of that power supply, not that much difference.


Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline acidjack

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Sounds to me like maybe the PS-2 is actually a better move than the DR-100 then - if I've got to have 2 boxes either way, the R-09HR is smaller than the DR-100 and more familiar to me anyway.  4-5hrs is more than enough time.  I assume you never tried this with rechargeables, right?

Also, to be fair, the mini-terminated PS-2 is I think nearly $300

Sound Pro sells them for around $200 I think for the 1/8" output modded PS-2.  In terms of battery life, I can tell you from personal experience that the PS-2 powered a pair of Neumann KM184s for about 5 hours with a standard Duracell 9V, and a pair of Schoeps MK4/CMC6s for about 4 hours.  It's just long enough to be useful for taping shows.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline su6oxone

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I assume you never tried this with rechargeables, right?

Actually I did use those Maha 9.6V rechargeables for quite some time, maybe 6 months, and with good results with the Neumann KM184s, probably 4 hours or so (I think it was less than with an alkaline 9V).  That's a good option if you are going to use it frequently.

Offline acidjack

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Hmm, good to know!  Maybe I should wait and take a look at the thing before I worry about other powering issues :)

I have all my orders out in my workshop, so without the benefit of that info . . . the standard littlebox ain't a lot bigger than a PS-2 (and close to the size of the R09HR as well)

lbox:  3.1" x 4.7" x 1.7"
PS-2: 3" x 4" x 1.3"

Another consideration is whether the DPAs really need 48V.  They are electret, so they can probably live with less.  DPA makes ominous remarks about loss of headroom and increased noise floor, but it might be worth a test--littlebox's battery life on low-volt (20V) mode is 3x the life at 48V.

The DR-100 is tougher to compare because it has to run a lot of other stuff than just phantom.  I presume its 5 hour life listed off of the lithium is without phantom.

Another important issue is a PS-2 terminated to miniplug is no longer balanced, so any noise or interference, whether external or from the phantom supply, will not be canceled as it would be with a balanced preamp.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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I have never used a ps-2, but I recall someone here tore one apart and said the quality of phantom power was not very good.   My recollection may be incorrect...

New product - Get your NEUMANN active mounting bars
Active microphone mounting bars for Schoeps and AKG, and Naiant AKG, ready to ship

Offline rowjimmytour

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For your 4 channel pleasure check out this Oade mod R4 includes plenty of power and SDB patch kit ;)
http://www.archive.org/bookmarNo
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Offline KooterB

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I believe if you look at the power consumption of a mics, DPA 4021's I think it's like 2.60 mA which is fairly low, you should get plenty of recording time with the PS2.

I was just fortunate enough to get a good deal on some much-longed-for DPA 4021s from a member here and am trying to figure out my powering solutions.

Currently I run an R-09HR and have a littlebox on the way.  I probably will wait and see how it works for truly portable use, but from the looks of it, sticking the littlebox in my lowpro bag (basically just an unpadded messenger bag) looks like it will be awkward. I'm familiar with the profile of the PS-2 from having a Zefiro InBox aka AD20 back in the day.

However, I've read on here that the PS-2 doesn't last very long.  My thought is that the 4021s, being so small, might not be that power hungry, but I am hoping to get some guidance from others.

Other ideas I've had are a) get an R-44, which while not usable for "stealth" can certainly be carried in a shoulder bag and doesn't weigh much (I'd like one of these anyway to go 4-ch), b) get something midway between an R-09HR and an R-44 like a PMD661, but this seems like a bad compromise b/c it's still not small enough for true low-profile use but isn't as feature-rich as an R-44 and probably won't sound any better than the littlebox>R-09HR combo or c) get something like a Tascam DR-100, which I hear ALSO doesn't last long, but maybe get a small external power supply for it (how small are these?) for it, which would still result in there being only a total of 3 boxes.

Thoughts?
"Don't bury me in this cursed ground
When I die let me fly
I'm nothing but a sound
Don't bury me in this cursed ground" -NMA

Berliner CM33(2-BeKindKables)>TASCAM-DR-100Mk2-XLR
Stealth rig:SP-CMC-8 (AT943)>SP-SPSB-10>Edirol R-09HR

Offline tbone65

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hello saw yur post and had to comment. i have a pair of 4021,s dpa,s  actually old org style b and k .but the power issue is the same. first off this is just my opinion and i speak from my experience of  running these for over 10years. so take what you can from it.first off the b and k 4021,s like running hot. do not under power them.48 volts is key.they eat up bass like a sponge to water. they need the full power or else you will hear a big difference. the ps -2 is great for them 4-5 hours.  i have one for sale if you need one.i up graded to a psp-3 and never touched any other pre. as for the recorder use what ever makes you happy. a h2 zoom is just as good if not better then  any r-9 in my  opinion.half the price to boot. one thing no one has mentioned sofar...the r-44 (no hard drive) is the bomb.i have one of them and i run 4 channels all the time.great for matrix recordings. to be honest i like the built in mic pre,s on the r-44. they run hot but quiet.no noise or background humms. i have runneuman u8t,s and other large diaphram mics as well as ribbon mics.i even tried tube mics in to the unit and by passed the pre,s. sounded awesome. i couldnt spend the money on the sound professionals multi track unit after seeing and using the r-44. it just didnt  make sense. as for themoded version of the r-44...it would be ok to buy but not really needed.ask other  r-44 users there opinions on this site.hear what they have to say.would be cool to hear. any ways thats my 2 cents. hope it helps.tbone

 

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