Topic: Stage Miking

[Walstib62]

Thanks to all for your responses. This has been a great "thinking out loud" forum for us. It's really been helpful. The first band we are taping in this new venue is Donna The Buffalo. We all know the keyboard player fairly well, and they are very taper friendly. Since they don't play loud, hard rock, the onstage sound should be very good.
To my knowledge, they don't use IEM, but I could be wrong there. I think that if we can concentrate our efforts on getting a good onstage feed from a pair of omni's, combined with a good direct PA miking, and a board feed, we should be able to pull a very good recording.

Now to get a good video cam......

[SmokinJoe]

We have one local venue, smaller than yours, with a low ceiling, and basically there are 2 options to tape... about 20' out, or on stage.  If you go 20' it's pretty much in the sweet spot, but you get some chatter, and basically you are doing the standard PA tape.  On stage will tend to get low vocals.

There is a light bar over head stage lip, and I have clamped to that about 3 times.  In all cases, it sounded good, with great separation, but the vocals are still low.  Not as low as having a stand stage lip 2' off the ground, but lower than ideal.  I think the mics are getting some sound from the PA.

http://www.archive.org/details/nwg2009-08-12.akg414.flac16f

[Walstib62]

Thanks for the info. and the link Joe. It was my impression that stage miking would produce great instrument sound, depending on placement, but possibly weak in the vocals. This and other tapes seem to confirm that.
Hopefully, with a Mix of PA, SBD and stage sources, we will get a nice blend.
It's certainly trial and error, I just want to minimize the error part ahead of time if possible.

[hoppedup]

I'm thinking that maybe hanging something for mounts would be good for static cams for those doing video.

I don't run video yet, but it's in my plans for the future.

[tonedeaf]

^ FWIW, I'm pretty sure Donna the Buffalo is video friendly.  That's a HELLA band for the cherry poppin' gig!  One of my favorites. 

Yeah, vocals are problemmatic for any close-to- stage mic'ing situation.  I'd consider either getting the vocals off the SBD and matrix them in after the show, or you could run a separate rig and hang mics in front of the vocal monitor, as long as the vocal monitor has all of the band's vocals routed through it.  I think Tara and Jeb are the only vocalists in this incarnation of the band, although Kathy sang back when she was in the band.

[mosquito]

DTB for the first show?  Lovely!

They do allow video (with certain caveats and addenda): http://www.archive.org/details/DonnatheBuffalo

Some thoughts:

It sounds like the hall is huge horizontally.  Has the owner considered making the stage even wider?  12 - 16 feet wide to one side of the pole might be a little narrow for a lot of bands and I imagine extending a one foot tall stage would be a lot easier and cheaper than removing the post.

Has anyone considered building hard flats to tailor the sound of the hall?  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flats_(theatre) )  I'm kinda expecting -- in my wild imagination -- that it's going to have some reverberation that's going to make it sound muddy.  If it were done it would probably be safest to hang them from the ceiling.  They're not hard to build at all, but the cost of lumber can add up.  As a bonus, they could be used for projected lights.

Have you considered bringing in a small local band for an afternoon or evening some time before opening night?  It would probably be useful for the house to do a run-through as if there were a real show so that they've had live music run through the system at least once and to help figure out whatever setup / take down / storage procedures.  The main reason I thought of this is that if you / they did it, you'd have a good chance to put a pair of mics on a stand and carry it around to find the real sweet spots to help in your decision making.

GL.  Let us know how it goes!

[hoppedup]

The owner is going to do some limited sound baffling work prior to the first show. DtB is actually the second night this place is open. There are a couple of local bands there the night before. I plan to go to that show to scope the scene. I've taped one of the bands before, so it shouldn't be a problem.

With the coverage we have for DtB (I can run 6 channels, Walstib62 can do 8, I assume capnhook will be there running at least 4) we'll get something good.

[tonedeaf]

DTB for the first show?  Lovely!

BTW, for the youngun's in the crowd, DtB (donna the buffalo) existed LOOONG before DTB (derek trucks band). 

I like Derek Trucks Band, but it bugged me a little bit that their fans never seemed to respect that the DTB acronym had already been in use for many years before the derek band.

[Walstib62]

True,
Donna was on the scene first, but I have a tape of Derek Trucks band from '93. Granted, not the current lineup.
That's only 5 yrs. after Donna formed, I believe.

[rocksuitcase]

Here's what we did when we had the run of club daDa in Dallas back in the Late 80's.

We got the house sound man to run us two channels of cables from the stage snakebox and then took XLR cables from the back of their board straight to a small board that had XLR receptacles and was near the front of the board structure that had a ledge etc. We would then plug our decks into that board straight to the mic ins.We transformed that location into the tapers area on nights when we taped.

Occasionally, for acoustic or no vocal bands, we also would run PZM's on stage. You have to watch out for foot noise, but those tracks often came out good.

Another thing you will find out is how the sound system is going to interact in the room. Especially with different sized audiences and band scenarios. You will note where the sound is the sweetest and then you should be able to figure out ceiling spots or stand clamping areas. Someone upthread mentioned stage monitors and their mix affecting what you will be taping from onstage mic locations. this is very crucial. You often have to note the location of the monitors and try not to get omnis or pzms too close or directly in front.

It sounds like a fun opportunity for you guys. Good luck with it!

[Walstib62]

Some kind of a break out box from the board would be great. How did that setup work? I'd think that it would have to have an amplifier in it to avoid signal loss.

[hoppedup]

 I put my SP-CMC-4U on stage with a DR-07 for Donna Saturday night. There was a big crowd up front so I set it down, pressed record and walked away. I guessed at the levels, thinking I was leaving lots of room. It was a little hot, but I was very pleased with the result.

Pics in the rig pictures forum:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129839.0

Walstib62, you never commented on the stage mics tape. What do you think?

[Walstib62]

They sound great for the instruments. I think if you put your omni's down next time, it would be even better!
Hopefully the SBD came out ok to mix with. My aud is so-so. I will get closer to the PA next time around. I told Frankie he should book Gov't Mule. That would be sweet.

[hoppedup]

I think if you put your omni's down next time, it would be even better!

Actually, I'll come up with a DIY mount and run the cards and split omnis next time, for comparison.

Thanks to baustin for the link to the short stands. I got two. Maybe I should have grabbed one more. With the mount I used, mics were around 22" from the stage floor.

With the number of channels we are capable of recording, maybe we can grab just the vox from the board at a show to mix back in. Lots of options to play around with. There are a few pictures on the Aquarius site now:  http://www.theaquariusmusichall.com/