Topic: Question about the Marantz PMD661

[mortimer]

Hi friends, I have a new Marantz PMD661 recorder.
I have tested, it works fine plugging the microphones (Neumann km140) straight into it and also when using the Denecke PS-2 POWER SUPPLY.
Now I'd like to use my Denecke AD-20 pre amp that connects to the digital input.

This is the setting I have selected:
01 Input             D. IN
02 Rec Format     PCM-24
03 Rec Channel    Stereo
04 Sample Rate    48K
05 PreRecord       On
06 Level Cont.     Manual
07 Auto Track     Off
08 Auto Mark      Off
09 Silent Skip      Off
10 Mic Atten.      0dB
11 Low Cut         Off
12 High Cut        Off
13 Skip Back       4sec
14 Key Lock        All
15 Battery         Ni-MH
16 Auto Power Off 15m
17 Beep           Off
18 SP Mute        On
19 Play Mode      Cont.
20 Machine ID     1
21 Preset Default
 
It looked to me like what should be, though it doesn't work: the recorder doesn't run and I get an error message
< Err D.In >
that is not even in the Error Message list in the User Guide 

My question, is there anybody who plugs the pre amp into the digital input of the PMD661?
And can, please, let us know the setting?

Thanks so much!
 

[JasonSobel]

that error is because the PMD-661 can't lock onto the digital signal from the AD-20.
If I recall correctly, the AD-20 is fixed at 16 bit / 44.1 kHz.

So you need to change this setting:
04 Sample Rate    48K
to 44.1 kHz.

Once the PMD-661 sample rate matches the sample rate being sent by the AD-20, it'll lock on the digital signal, and you'll be good to go.

One other thing to note, is that the AD-20 outputs a 16 bit signal (again, if I recall correctly).  So while it'll lock on to the signal (after changing thet sample rate to 44.1kHz) with 24 bit files, you're probably better off changing this setting as well:
02 Rec Format     PCM-24
to PCM-16

If you record a 16 bit S/PDIF data stream to a 24 bit file, each bit will just have 8 extra zeroes attached to it, and you're not going to have any real benefit.  So you might as well save it to a 16 bit file, and save disk space.

Is all that clear?

[mortimer]

Thanks for the reply, JasonSobel
It's all clear, I have made the changes in the setting as you suggest but without success yet.

> If I recall correctly, the AD-20 is fixed at 16 bit / 44.1 kHz.
Well, I don't think so: I use it successfully with the M-Audio Microtrack at 24 bit / 48 Khz

I still wonder what's wrong with the Marantz setting above: I get the same error message
< Err D.In >
even if I'm not plugging any cable at all, apparently it refuses to work as I have set it, the AD-20 is connected or not, it doesn't matter.
I just need to know from someone who plugs the pre amp into the digital input what setting is to be used!

 

[Gil]

Thanks for the reply, JasonSobel
It's all clear, I have made the changes in the setting as you suggest but without success yet.

> If I recall correctly, the AD-20 is fixed at 16 bit / 44.1 kHz.
Well, I don't think so: I use it successfully with the M-Audio Microtrack at 24 bit / 48 Khz

I still wonder what's wrong with the Marantz setting above: I get the same error message
< Err D.In >
even if I'm not plugging any cable at all, apparently it refuses to work as I have set it, the AD-20 is connected or not, it doesn't matter.
I just need to know from someone who plugs the pre amp into the digital input what setting is to be used!

I think there were two AD-20s, one locked at 44.1 and the other at 48. I have the 44.1. As far as I know, it's also not limited to any specific bitrate. As always, I could be wrong.

[greenone]

Denecke's PDF brochure for the AD-20 says that it's 20-bit, 44.1kHz out. http://www.denecke.com/Products/Audio%20Accessories/audioaccessories.htm

[JasonSobel]

Thanks for the reply, JasonSobel
It's all clear, I have made the changes in the setting as you suggest but without success yet.

> If I recall correctly, the AD-20 is fixed at 16 bit / 44.1 kHz.
Well, I don't think so: I use it successfully with the M-Audio Microtrack at 24 bit / 48 Khz

I still wonder what's wrong with the Marantz setting above: I get the same error message
< Err D.In >
even if I'm not plugging any cable at all, apparently it refuses to work as I have set it, the AD-20 is connected or not, it doesn't matter.
I just need to know from someone who plugs the pre amp into the digital input what setting is to be used!

ok, well let's think about this some more (just a few days ago, I used my PMD-661 with the digital input, in conjunction with the AD2K external converter.  and I use the digital input all the time to transfer DATs, so it definitely works).

ok, the first thing is verify which version of the AD-20.  As "Porno Gil" mentions, there were two versions of it, one set for 44.1 kHz, and one set for 48 kHz (I used to own an AD-20, and mine was definitely always set for 44.1 kHz).  But it sounds like yours is set for 48 kHz, in which case, you had the sample rate setting correct the first time around.

Now, in terms of digital outputs, the AD-20 has two.  an optical output and a S/PDIF electrical output.  but instead of the typical RCA connection, the AD-20 has a "mono" 1/8" connection.  In order to use the digital input on the PMD-661, you must use the RCA digital input.  The 1/8" input on the PMD-661 is an analog line-in.  but you say that you've used the AD-20 before with a Microtrack, which also only has an RCA connection for the S/PDIF input.  Am I correct in assuming that you're using the same cable and/or adaptor to go from the 1/8" S/PDIF output from the AD-20 to the RCA S/PDIF input on teh PMD-661?

And lastly, when using the digital input, you will always get the < Err D.In > error if the deck can't lock on the external digital signal.  So of course, without any cables attached from the AD-20 to the PMD-661, you'll get that error.  But what it also means is that the AD-20 should be on and connected before you press record on the PMD-661.  If you press record on the PMD-661 before the AD-20 is connected (or connected, but not connected to power), then the deck won't be able to lock onto the digital signal (because there is no signal going to the deck), and you'll get that error.

I hope some of this is useful and you get it figured out.  As I said before, I use the PMD-661 digital input all the time, with no issues.

- Jason

[mortimer]

> I hope some of this is useful and you get it figured out
Absolutely, thanks a lot!!

< the AD-20 should be on and connected before you press record on the PMD-661
Jason, your words are made of gold! 
I've done what you've written and the machine worked...

Because you asked: I'm using the same cable to go from the 1/8" S/PDIF output from the AD-20 to the RCA S/PDIF input on the PMD-661 as I used with the MT.

BTW The setting is 24 bit / 44.1 kHz not 48, actually on the MT was 24 bit / Sample Rate (Auto)

[JasonSobel]

Great, I'm glad you figured it out and got it working.  and as you figured out, the sample rate setting on the PMD-661 has to be set to match whatever signal you are sending it (unlike the MT, which would automatically lock onto any digital signal and determine the sample rate).

[Rleeee]

Mortimer, just curious, is your 661 stock, or one with an Oade Mod.?

[mortimer]

Mortimer, just curious, is your 661 stock, or one with an Oade Mod.?

My 661 is just arrived, it has not any modifications yet; do you recommend one Oade Mod.?
Well, I guess I still have to learn the abc of it, first... 

[newplanet7]

Chat with su6oxone as he runs a stock 661.
The clip he posted sounds great.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=119213.msg1707507#msg1707507

[DigiGal]

Mortimer, just curious, is your 661 stock, or one with an Oade Mod.?

My 661 is just arrived, it has not any modifications yet; do you recommend one Oade Mod.?
Well, I guess I still have to learn the abc of it, first... 

So far I'm really pleased with my stock PMD-661 performance having recorded both loud PA concerts and soft Chamber Orchestra sources with it.  Try recording with the stock unit yourself for various sources and use your own ears to judge if you feel a mod is necessary because YMMV.   You could always send it out for an Oade mod later if you wish.  I believe the mod would void Marantz's warranty and that Oade would offer a warranty.

BTW> I've used my UA5 to feed the Digi IN for matrix recording and as Jason pointed out you definitely want to make sure the pre-amp is powered and connected to the 661 first before recording a digital source or you'll get the error message you experienced.   

[datbrad]

So far I'm really pleased with my stock PMD-661 performance having recorded both loud PA concerts and soft Chamber Orchestra sources with it.  Try recording with the stock unit yourself for various sources and use your own ears to judge if you feel a mod is necessary because YMMV.   You could always send it out for an Oade mod later if you wish.  I believe the mod would void Marantz's warranty and that Oade would offer a warranty.

Unfortunately, Doug only mods units he sells. If you bought a 661 elsewhere, you will not be able to get Doug to mod it. He has offered mods on some recorder brands/models that he did not sell originally, but for most recorders you would have to have bought the stock unit from him to begin with.

I have listened to samples from both 661 stock and Oade concert mod recordings that I was not able to tell a huge difference, probably due to the same type of chips, bipolar transistors, being swapped out in the preamp stage. The improvement from the CMOD is a lower noise floor and a higher input gain before overload, which if the recording environment in a specific comparison is within the upper limits for these factors for the stock unit, I expect you would not see any advantage to a mod. But, recording in a setting with extremely high sound pressure, or very soft sources requiring lots of gain from the internal preamp, I think the improved headroom and SNR from the mod unit would be very audible. Those of us with long memories certainly know that the 660 was essentially useless for concert taping when it first came out, and the Oade mod made it a very fine little 16 bit flash field recorder for concerts.

As far as the warm mod Doug does, I have heard a fairly significant difference in overall tone between recorded samples of the warm mod versus the stock unit, clearly due to the replacement of the bipolar transistors in the preamp with old school FETs. If you are looking for a vintage sound in a flash recorder, the warm mod 661 is the way to go, IMO.