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Author Topic: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB  (Read 11857 times)

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Offline flintstone

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Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« on: April 01, 2010, 09:58:15 AM »
From the NAB show listing for Nagra:

"Nagra will present a new stand-alone microphone preamplifier. These external preamplifiers can be used as two additional inputs for the Nagra VI or as external preamplifiers for any other recorder where existing preamps are judged to be inadequate quality."

No other details were available.  The NAB show starts April 10 in Las Vegas.

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Offline Colin Liston

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2010, 04:40:20 PM »
Very interesting.   I'm sure they will be "affordable".
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Offline su6oxone

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2010, 06:01:13 PM »
How about a price drop on the Nagra VI instead...  :P

Offline spzkt

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2010, 03:24:25 AM »
Or the "cheaper" LB without editing functionality that was supposed to released at NAB?

Offline GDfan

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2010, 01:44:11 PM »
From the NAB show listing for Nagra:

"These external preamplifiers can be used as two additional inputs for the Nagra VI or as external preamplifiers for any other recorder where existing preamps are judged to be inadequate quality."




sounds like a 2channel pre, I bet it sounds awesome.
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Offline duch

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2010, 01:57:33 PM »
It was on display at SATIS, but I just totally forgot to take a picture so you'll only have a poor scan of the already low quality leaflet gone through my crappy scanner :shame:



The information so far :

The name is Nagra EMP, it's based on the Nagra VI electronic, it will be powered by 4 AA batteries (providing power for 8 hours)  and there will be an optional built-in flash recorder.

It should be out by the end of the year and the price will be 1200 € without VAT (around 1700 $). I guess this price is for the recorder-less version.

(maybe we should open another thread or change the title of this one now that we have the name of the beast).
« Last Edit: November 01, 2010, 07:34:11 PM by duch »

Offline SClassical

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2010, 01:15:15 PM »
do u know the size and weight of this and if it has digital out?
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Offline Celac

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2010, 08:24:42 PM »
They have one in the booth at AES. The box is not very big, about the size of a D5... hmm...,  I will go back and see if they haves spec sheet and a more up to date comparison. :)
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Did your friend consider that maybe he got a basically accurate recording of a bad P.A. system and/or a terrible-sounding performance venue? When you aim good microphones at ugly sound, the resulting recording will not be beautiful.
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2010, 08:41:03 PM »
Yeah - looks like it's about the size of a VMS5u based on the size of the headphone jack.
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Offline Maclogically

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2010, 11:37:09 AM »
also curious about whether it does A/D + WC I assume so on the A/D as there will be an option with a recorder built in but would definitely want separate WC... any more concrete info?

Offline sunjan

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2010, 04:58:12 AM »
Apparently it was presented at IBC back in September but flew under the radar...
http://www.radiotvlink.gr/news/showarticle.php?articleID=16798

Google Translate:
The new analog preamp NAGRA-EMP!
(23.09.2010 | 09:10:08)

The Nagra-EMP is a robust external stereo preamplifier.
It uses the same electronic circuits to meet the popular preamps recorder Nagra VI.
Operates on 4 AA batteries for more than 8 hours.
Optionally can be equipped with a small built-in audio recorder.
This high-quality audio preamplifier may be useful in many applications and cases.

It is also possible to feed from one external connector Hirose.
It may be the ideal two additional preamplifiers for recorder NAGRA-VI.
The preamplifier Nagra-EMP Report was presented at IBC2010.

Information: www.audiovision.gr

Notes: Press Release - 09/22/2010
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Offline andromedanwarmachine

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2010, 06:06:22 AM »
is this really actually going to be a production-model??

I can find out nothing about it beyond the links here and it doesn't feature on Nagra's website.

If that was April, how long should we wait??!
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Offline sunjan

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 06:33:55 PM »
Now on preorder for EUR 1200 from a French online retailer:
http://www.yesaudio.fr/4.html

Also note that there is a "rec option" for another EUR 200. Does this mean that there is a module that can record to flash memory involved? I dropped a line to the retailer to find out...
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 06:42:47 PM »
Now on preorder for EUR 1200 from a French online retailer:
http://www.yesaudio.fr/4.html

Also note that there is a "rec option" for another EUR 200. Does this mean that there is a module that can record to flash memory involved? I dropped a line to the retailer to find out...

I'm betting it just has a CF/MicroSDHC slot.........
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Offline andromedanwarmachine

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2011, 08:39:03 AM »
I bet your right- but that wouldn't put me off...

I wonder what the connectivity is to an external recorder... Alot of this stuff comes out in Europe first- I still can't find a UK listed price for an LB...

JimP
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Offline sunjan

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2011, 07:14:04 AM »
The French retailer confirms that there is a variety with built-in recording (maybe just a card slot?!).

But to make sense, there should be some LCD or recording interface? Looking at the pics, the metering looks crude with only three LEDs for clipping. Surely, one should expect a more detailed UI if Nagra intends to compete with the other recorders in this price range
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Offline andromedanwarmachine

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2011, 08:37:30 AM »
having read alot of gear reviews, we might find that the money has gone into the Mic Amps and everything else is designed at budget.

Not sure if Nagra would entertain that philosophy, but I'm sure they'll have felt the pinch from Sound Devices products and they can't be immune to that.

Who knows...

JimP
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2011, 09:08:17 AM »
The French retailer confirms that there is a variety with built-in recording (maybe just a card slot?!).

But to make sense, there should be some LCD or recording interface? Looking at the pics, the metering looks crude with only three LEDs for clipping. Surely, one should expect a more detailed UI if Nagra intends to compete with the other recorders in this price range


The SD 552 has no LCD and it has internal recording
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/552.htm


So to have recording does not require an LCD

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Offline Napo

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2011, 09:48:47 AM »
H2O,

what are the arched lines of lights on the front side of the panel?
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Offline drewloo

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2011, 09:50:01 AM »
Those are LEDs, not an LCD display.
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2011, 10:00:59 AM »
OOPS, you are right, drewloo!
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Offline John Willett

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2011, 10:18:32 AM »
I still can't find a UK listed price for an LB...

£1,600 +VAT - at least that was the 2010 price.

Just ask Nagra GB:-

Company:
Nagra Kudelski (GB) Ltd

Contact:
John Ruding or Ken Fooks

Address:   
3U Saint Albans Enterprise Centre
Long Spring Porters Wood
St Albans
Hertfordshire
England
AL3 6EN
   
Telephone:
01727 810002

Fax:
01727 837677

Website:  www.nagra.com
Email:  nagragb@aol.com

Offline andromedanwarmachine

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2011, 05:19:52 AM »
Yeah, I did actually John, and that's what they said...

but in the way that bits of Nagra gear turn up on Italian and French websites for sale from new, there's not much in this country. One mabey if I remember...

John Rudling quoted me Richmond Film Services and HHB as distributors but I don't see the LB listed on their sites, let alone a fractional cost difference between them... It's almost like nobody's really trying to sell it over here...

Mabey that'll change after your forthcoming SOS article...?

JimP

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2011, 02:44:08 AM »
Going back to look at this, I just noticed that there was a somewhat better picture on the swedish(?) radio/tv site. One thing that stands out in the picture is that the right side is clean/sealed, so the XLRs would have to sit on the left only, back only, or a combination.

Thing looks ass ugly, but remember that there is tons of ugly gear out there that sounds great.  ;D
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2011, 11:34:47 PM »
WTF is going on w/ us getting SPAMMED ??? :P We stayed spam-free for 8 years and now all of a sudden, BAMMMM!
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2011, 11:01:25 AM »
Is it just me or that look cheap-ass?

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2011, 03:38:33 PM »
Is it just me or that look cheap-ass?

I'm not a huge fan of the form factor. Why not have the controls recessed?

I've heard rumors of a grace lunatec v4 where the big new feature is a built in 2 channel recorder. I think I would prefer that over the nagra... feature wise.

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2011, 06:19:15 PM »
Is it just me or that look cheap-ass?

I'm not a huge fan of the form factor. Why not have the controls recessed?

I've heard rumors of a grace lunatec v4 where the big new feature is a built in 2 channel recorder. I think I would prefer that over the nagra... feature wise.

I thought that was "Hell Freezes Over" territory according to Grace Design.

I for one am looking forward to this, especially if it's not astronomically expensive.

Is it just me or that look cheap-ass?

no, I somewhat agree, I also agree with the criticism of the recessed controls. The look just reminds me of the 60s, and I guess I'm ok with that. It's how it sounds and ergonomics that matter more to me. The control issue is actually a bigger beef in my eyes from a reliability/safety issue.
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2011, 11:03:47 PM »
doesnt look cheap to me
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Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2011, 12:46:51 AM »
I've heard rumors of a grace lunatec v4 where the big new feature is a built in 2 channel recorder. I think I would prefer that over the nagra... feature wise.

Never gonna happen.  Mike Grace has dispelled that rumor for years.

Recorders are not what they do.  They do high quality amplifiers and they do them very well. 

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #31 on: May 07, 2011, 11:43:15 PM »
http://www.iberalp.com/web/contenido.jsp?marca=16&producto=597&idioma=en&nombre=Nagra-EMP

  • recording 16bit / 32-48khz only (John said the same thing on GS the other day)
  • +15dbu out max. (presuming I've converted the 4.4V correctly)

That's crap... Much less attractive to me now. I mean, a sax will do +20dbu out, and a V2/V3 even more then that... It's one thing to bolt on a shitty recording mechanism, but there is zero reason for me to buy an expensive pre-amp when I'll effectively get 12-14dbu of gain out of it...

 >:(
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Offline Napo

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2011, 01:37:35 AM »
http://www.iberalp.com/web/contenido.jsp?marca=16&producto=597&idioma=en&nombre=Nagra-EMP

  • recording 16bit / 32-48khz only (John said the same thing on GS the other day)
  • +15dbu out max. (presuming I've converted the 4.4V correctly)

That's crap... Much less attractive to me now. I mean, a sax will do +20dbu out, and a V2/V3 even more then that... It's one thing to bolt on a shitty recording mechanism, but there is zero reason for me to buy an expensive pre-amp when I'll effectively get 12-14dbu of gain out of it...

 >:(

page,

I am confused in the specs I read 'Input level adjustment range      50 dB Mic'
In addtion they say that it is good for classic music so gians should be there for quite music. What I do not like is the limited duration of batteries - Aprox 2 hours with Phantom and recording.
Any official price?


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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2011, 03:00:38 AM »
Any official price?

I haven't seen one yet.
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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2011, 02:00:31 PM »
So for clarification, I spoke with the only (retail) person I knew who had contact with Nagra and his response was this:

Quote
I spoke to Nagra and they informed me that they showed a mock unit of the
EMP at NAB, but it hasn't been officially released yet.  With that in mind
there is no literature on this unit yet and no known release date.

So the specs quoted above may improve.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2011, 05:56:57 AM »
"no known release date"...

hmm- mabey they're looking for interest?

The "lite" version of the LB- the LB-S was ditched in the end, mabey that'll happen here...?

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Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2011, 02:31:09 AM »
    • +15dbu out max. (presuming I've converted the 4.4V correctly)

    That's crap... Much less attractive to me now. I mean, a sax will do +20dbu out, and a V2/V3 even more then that... It's one thing to bolt on a shitty recording mechanism, but there is zero reason for me to buy an expensive pre-amp when I'll effectively get 12-14dbu of gain out of it...

    Sorry, but it sounds like you have mixed things up a bit. The +15dBu is the maximum output voltage of the box. This is a healthy professional level.

    Gain is a totally separate matter. Just to be clear, a box with 0dB gain might have +15dBu as max output, another box with 70dB gain might have +4dBu as max output level. The two figures gain and max output are not directly related.

    // gunnar

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    Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
    « Reply #37 on: July 01, 2011, 09:55:24 AM »
      • +15dbu out max. (presuming I've converted the 4.4V correctly)

      That's crap... Much less attractive to me now. I mean, a sax will do +20dbu out, and a V2/V3 even more then that... It's one thing to bolt on a shitty recording mechanism, but there is zero reason for me to buy an expensive pre-amp when I'll effectively get 12-14dbu of gain out of it...

      Sorry, but it sounds like you have mixed things up a bit. The +15dBu is the maximum output voltage of the box. This is a healthy professional level.

      Gain is a totally separate matter. Just to be clear, a box with 0dB gain might have +15dBu as max output, another box with 70dB gain might have +4dBu as max output level. The two figures gain and max output are not directly related.

      // gunnar

      very true, however the gain that I'd get out of it was based on the output of my mics (which I didn't mention, my bad). My beyer 930s average an output just above 0dbu for what I record, so if the max output of the preamp is +15dbu, then I'm only getting about 12-15dbu of gain out of the box before I'd hit it's top limit. I wouldn't complain, except my 722 takes a (non-attenuated signal) of +20. For the price this will be, I shouldn't have to add 5db of gain on the recorder.

      With no official specs nailed down, maybe they will improve it, I mean the VI which I gather is what this is intended to be paired with takes up to +24dbu on it's line inputs.[/list]
      "This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

      "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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      Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
      « Reply #38 on: July 05, 2011, 07:29:24 AM »
      very true, however the gain that I'd get out of it was based on the output of my mics (which I didn't mention, my bad). My beyer 930s average an output just above 0dbu for what I record, so if the max output of the preamp is +15dbu, then I'm only getting about 12-15dbu of gain out of the box before I'd hit it's top limit. I wouldn't complain, except my 722 takes a (non-attenuated signal) of +20. For the price this will be, I shouldn't have to add 5db of gain on the recorder.
      Hmm. I have read your conversation several times, thinking whether I should answer it or not. I simply cannot stop myself, might not be to your benefit but hopefully for others reading this forum.

      Basically, with a 722 you do not need any more preamps to get the gain you need. Simply connect the mic into the 722, turn on phantom power and turn up the gain. There is plenty enough gain there.

      If you really want  to have the external preamp, gain is not really what is missing. So simply setting the gain staging correctly will work. A little more or less in the external preamp or in the 722 makes very little difference when working on line level signals.

      So, I guess, what you want to have is a change in sound. You might want the mic preamp to create a specific sound for you. Totally reasonable as such, but why choose one clean preamp in favor of another clean preamp? Especially with a modern transformerless condensor mic ( see below) . Both the 722 and the Nagra have preamps that tends toward the clean gain without coloring camp. It might be possible to hear a very slight difference in a blind AB test, but I would not bet too much money on that. If you really want to change the sound, it might be better to aim for a preamp that has a different tonality. There are several available, one example might be the Neve Portico.

      Note on mics: modern transformerless Condensor mics are rather insensitivy to what mic preamp you set behind, at least compared to other mic types. The low impedance output is rather less sensitive for the loading from the mic and the high output level sets less demands on gain. Contrast this with, say, a ribbon microphone. These have much lower output levels requiring much more gain from the preamp, and also sports a rather high impedance output through a transformer and can sound quite different depending on the load the preamp gives the mic.

      // Gunnar

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      Re: Nagra to announce new preamp at NAB
      « Reply #39 on: July 05, 2011, 10:21:13 AM »
      very true, however the gain that I'd get out of it was based on the output of my mics (which I didn't mention, my bad). My beyer 930s average an output just above 0dbu for what I record, so if the max output of the preamp is +15dbu, then I'm only getting about 12-15dbu of gain out of the box before I'd hit it's top limit. I wouldn't complain, except my 722 takes a (non-attenuated signal) of +20. For the price this will be, I shouldn't have to add 5db of gain on the recorder.
      Hmm. I have read your conversation several times, thinking whether I should answer it or not. I simply cannot stop myself, might not be to your benefit but hopefully for others reading this forum.

      Basically, with a 722 you do not need any more preamps to get the gain you need. Simply connect the mic into the 722, turn on phantom power and turn up the gain. There is plenty enough gain there.

      If you really want  to have the external preamp, gain is not really what is missing. So simply setting the gain staging correctly will work. A little more or less in the external preamp or in the 722 makes very little difference when working on line level signals.

      So, I guess, what you want to have is a change in sound. You might want the mic preamp to create a specific sound for you. Totally reasonable as such, but why choose one clean preamp in favor of another clean preamp? Especially with a modern transformerless condensor mic ( see below) . Both the 722 and the Nagra have preamps that tends toward the clean gain without coloring camp. It might be possible to hear a very slight difference in a blind AB test, but I would not bet too much money on that. If you really want to change the sound, it might be better to aim for a preamp that has a different tonality. There are several available, one example might be the Neve Portico.

      Note on mics: modern transformerless Condensor mics are rather insensitivy to what mic preamp you set behind, at least compared to other mic types. The low impedance output is rather less sensitive for the loading from the mic and the high output level sets less demands on gain. Contrast this with, say, a ribbon microphone. These have much lower output levels requiring much more gain from the preamp, and also sports a rather high impedance output through a transformer and can sound quite different depending on the load the preamp gives the mic.

      // Gunnar

      In short, yes. I agree with all of your points (and have for some time). It's not raw gain I'm in search of but flavor, technically I can run my mics in line-in on the 722 and still have gain to spare.  ;D Now, there are a couple of reasons that I'm concerned about the gain, but it's not a clear-cut issue as it might be for others;

      What started this was I heard the shootout between the VI and the 788 on GS and I could tell the difference between the 788 and the VI on off-axis micro detail (someone coughing, the shutting of a door in the distance, etc), now whether that's gain or A/D stage is something I can't remember (and intended to clarify later). Now for what we do, that's sort of meh, but every now and then I schlep out to the country and do nature recording which is virtually all micro detail (yes, I'd need more gain, but again, this is a flavor issue). Both scenarios are valid as at this stage in my hobby, I won't buy a preamp for just one of the situations.

      (plus, i can haz gear lust)
      "This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

      "Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

       

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