Topic: Vintage Home Recordings on Vinyl - Where to start with transfers?

[runonce]

My grandfather was a somewhat well known Cleveland band leader in the 30s. He played guitar, sang, and had an orchestra.

I am lucky to have a nice archive of old bakelite, and aluminum lacquer discs...much like vinyl - but a bit more fragile.

Im looking to get a bit of an education as to what type of playback needles/turntables are needed.

Some of the lacquered discs are huge - like 24 inches across - so I doubt I can get them played  - also the lacquer discs seem MUCH more fragile.

The bakelite discs are 10 inches and - I think - 33 speed.

There are some that are made out of cardboard with a plastic lacquer...

And unfortunately - some of this stuff was not stored very well and is a bit dirty.

So - if anyone has ever been in on a project like this - I'd appreciate any pointers to good resources, or services (as Im sure I cant play these huge discs) - or advice...Thanks!

The first one I will be taking a stab at is a bakelite 10 -

WTAM Midnight Radio
Gene Beecher Vocalist, with the Jack Miles Orchestra
"Trees"
June 24, 1932

flipside - - -

NBC Network WTAM Noon Radio Program (no artist listed, might be same as flipside)

"Tell Tales", "Mona Lisa"

June 20, 1932

[boojum]

LP's did not arrive until the early 50's.  Before that records were 78rpm and played with 3 mil needles.  The 1 mil needles for LP's will not work!  You will get some sound but it will be faint and quite possibly distorted.  So get a cartridge which you can get a 3 mil needle for.  Try the Needle Doctor(http://www.needledoctor.com/) for that.  24" records, well, find a 50's music or radio studio for that one.  10" 78's were common.  There were also 10" LP's, but there were not many.  All but the earliest LP's were flexible.  None of the 78's that I have ever seen were.

Good luck.  You will have a lot of fun.  And clean those records well!  Use distilled water.  Tap water leaves a residue.    ;o)

[rhinowing]

paging moke....

[mfrench]

boojum is right,... 3mil (avg., sometimes 2.5mil) up until you get to "LP" microgroove technology in the early 50's, which are 33 and 45 - Shellacs ruled from the earliest era to the early 50's
Most of the homebrew are done on lacquer-on-aluminum discs and are cut straight to the master. Most commercial early commercial discs were shellac that were pressed from what started as Lacquer-on-Aluminum, from which a metal or glass pressing master was made.

You can simply tie L+ & R+ together and L-  & R- together to create an acceptable monaural signal, but you'll want to get a 3mil stylus. Otherwise, its like tossing a marble down a bowling alley as far as the smaller stylus fitting - it will wander all over the groove, missing tons of detail and adding tons of noise.
GE RPX and VRII are good old cartridges that will outlive all of us
Old Shure cartridges can still be had, as well as some NOS 3mil stylus for them, as well as Stanton and Pickering carts. The Shure, Pickering and Stanton are more contemporary carts that can have 3mil stylus inserted.
If you need to clean them, basic liquid dish soap is best, and a distilled water rinsing. Cleaning can make a huge difference. You can very safely use a boar hair bristle finger nail brush to scrub the grooves (EXCEPTION BEING TO IRREPLACEABLE DISCS - Use due caution).

[mfrench]

16" is about as large as the discs go. The decks are hard to find, and go for a pretty penny!

[runonce]

Thanks for all the replies here. Needle Doctor is a cool site - thanks for that.

I'll try to post a few pictures of the various discs later...

[runonce]

One thought - am I better off using a modern turntable or trying to use one that was contemporary to this age? I have a half decent collection of older and more recent devices.

Example - I have an Ensign turntable that is built into a 50s console - looks really mint, I think it works. Plays 78-16 speeds. I have the needle number - its a Jensen, one of those flipable designs. I'll be looking it up.

[heath]

I handle transfers like this for a living, and I use a modern table and cartridges/styli to play back 16" transcriptions. 

As far as EQ goes, I use this baby since it can handle just about any era:

http://www.kabusa.com/eqsmk12.htm

[runonce]

Here are a few pics - I get the big ones out later. The record that is standing up is a modern LP for comparison.

Any comments of the era of technology here...? These were actually done by my great-grandfather, who's son was the band leader. I know he had a wire recorder too...and I can see some evidence that a few of these discs are copies from another source.

[mfrench]

how long do you want to take to refurb an old deck for the process?  This is a substantial hurdle.
I just finished one, from 1955, that took most of a year to get to cooperate, and to run well enough to spin music.
You'll need to find a deck that can spin at 78rpm, and be variably adjustable at that speed (and others), because they didn't have such set standards back then, and things run all over the gamut for speeds.
Have you spun up the old Ensign? Does it spin quietly?
most of those old decks are driven by idler wheels which hardened 40 years ago. They now sound all nasty and scratchy, and will likely need a re-rubbering. You can do allot with those old decks, if you're handy and patient.


Heath,
What kind of decks do you use for transcriptions?

[heyitsmejess]

altho i have nothing to add to this thread, i would like to say that this is really, really cool, and would love to hear some of these when they have been transfered

[mfrench]

Heres a story of refurbishing a 40 year old deck, and, what came about just after I finished it. I posted it on a turntable builders forum about a year ago, and have cut and pasted it here:

OK,....
So, I've been building, spending, 'cipherin, spending, installing, tweaking, bending, obsessing, spending.
Finally it comes to fruition, just this past week, and the build is complete.

So, just tonight, Sarge, Heidi, the spousal unit, *provider of exceptional service for 30 years, is cleaning out an old family heirloom, a secretary (*Hank Hill moment). In it, she finds this old record in the bottom drawer, and because of all of my recent 78 acquisitions, she thought it was one of mine. So she throws it on the ottoman, and goes about her business, assuming I'll find its home, and put it away.
At any rate, I did find it, and, peeking thru a torn sleeve that it was in, was a wonderful red record (I love colored vinyl). So, curiously, I opened it, and found, this old Recordio disc:







This is an old 78 record made by her father back on July 4th, 1955. Its my wife, Heidi, at about a year and a half, and her sister, who was about 4.
He captured my wife saying a few baby words, like mama, nana, and just blabbering.
He captured also her sister singing Davey Crockett - King of the Wild Frontier.
I brought it back to her and showed it to her, and she just lit up.

Long story made more rambling,...
Heidi is off work this week, because her mother passed away late last week. Her father passed on a few years back.
We've been on a bit of a reminiscing thing this week, going back to her old digs, haunts, etc.
We've had this secretary for probably 20 years, and we had no idea that this disc was in the bottom drawer.
So, ultimately, the timing of the find is beyond coincidental - Its almost kind of spooky.

So, I broke out my portable recording rig, and ran a copy of the recording to digital for her (haven't edited it yet).
I'll post the Davey Crockett song in a bit. Cool stuff.
The quality is pretty grainy, but, its just made Sarge all grinny and happy - which ultiamtely makes the effort and expense  of this build-out worth every cent.

At any rate,.... the overall timing of the entire project, the finding of the record, etc., quite strange.

I just thought I'd share,... thanks for hearing me out.

[heath]

I use a KAB Transcriber, which is essentially a modified Vestax BDT-2600 for my transcription transfers

I also have a EMT-950 that I sometimes use for LPs and 78s.

[mfrench]

You couldn't drag me away from that EMT deck. *Those demand huge dollars these days.
There is something about idler drives that just cannot be touched by belts or direct drives. I've seen people use the acronym of PRaT with them, Pace, Rhythm, and, Timing.
The older decks had incredibly heavy platters and strong motors that kept a pace that is almost hallmark. The heavy platters act as a flywheel, that once to speed, take along time to spin down. That flywheel effect nullifies stylus drag through the heavy movements of music - pacing.
Pacing was the first thing that I noticed upon firing up my first idler renovation. It was just so rock steady.

/rambling

* at auction, opening bid amount of nearly $2200usd
http://cgi.ebay.com/Stunning-EMT-948-turntable-EMT-929-arm-/220612098931?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Turntables&hash=item335d817b73

[mfrench]

Runonce,

Where are you at in this big wild world of ours?
I ask, because there is an abundance of a certain old turntable type that are incredibly accessible in some areas, and rare as chickens teeth in others.  Where they are rare, they're no longer affordable (north america). They make great transcription tables with little effort.