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Author Topic: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power  (Read 16509 times)

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Offline DSatz

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2011, 04:29:51 PM »
page, there are many different circuit arrangements for condenser microphones, so I can't say how they all behave. Furthermore there is no standard for "9 - 52 Volt phantom powering" so any manufacturer who lists such a specification may seem to be doing the customers a big favor, but in fact any reference to an established powering standard is being evaded in that way.

In general, most microphones that can accept "9 - 52 Volts" are something like a 12-Volt phantom microphone that is designed to physically tolerate 52 Volts. They either are electret ("pre-polarized") microphones, or else they use a DC/DC converter internally so that the capsule is polarized at the intended voltage no matter what you supply them with (within their range, of course). Whether the audio output circuitry benefits from a higher supply voltage than the minimum would vary with the particular circuit design.

Schoeps CMC 6 and CCM microphones have come up in this discussion, and it's worth mentioning that they are something of an exception to the above. They use DC/DC converters, but instead of designing for the lowest allowable voltage and then throwing away what they don't need (i.e. converting it to heat inside the amplifer), they actually sense the incoming voltage and switch the converters to one of two specific modes. As a result they can (and do) conform to both ISO standard 12-Volt and ISO standard 48-Volt phantom powering, with identical audio performance, including maximum SPL.

But when they run at 12 Volts the DC conversion is more efficient, so for battery-powered recording, that would be the preferred mode if you have a choice. (48 V at 5 mA = 240 mW, while 12 V at 10 mA is only 120 mW.)

--best regards
« Last Edit: February 22, 2011, 11:01:05 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline su6oxone

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2011, 11:15:22 PM »
A little pricy at $5K USD but it's Swiss made!  Perfect recorder for the Rolex Submariner waring taper.

the r82 will fit the bill if price isn't a problem and you're willing to ditch your recorder as well.  ;D

At least you'd still have a sweet Submariner on your wrist.   :D

I'm partial to the Turn-O-Graph myself.


Offline Roger Gustavsson

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #32 on: January 31, 2011, 05:44:58 AM »
I think it is misleading with "phantom power". It seems that some believe there is power involved, that something is amplified and that is rarely the case. Phantom power supply or phantom powering is more appropriate.

Roger

Offline OFOTD

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #33 on: January 31, 2011, 05:03:27 PM »
I'm partial to the Turn-O-Graph myself.

I love that SS Date-Just.  Not very many Turn-O-Graph DJ's around that's for sure.    Great looking timepiece. 

Personally I am partial to the LV Submariner (LV16610)   >:D



Offline su6oxone

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2011, 07:11:24 PM »
Personally I am partial to the LV Submariner (LV16610)   >:D

Oh, that's nice... I like the green bezel.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2011, 07:13:11 PM by su6oxone »

Offline OFOTD

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #35 on: February 01, 2011, 02:21:49 AM »
Personally I am partial to the LV Submariner (LV16610)   >:D

Oh, that's nice... I like the green bezel.

Me too.  The green bezel was the big selling point for me.  Only the 50th Anniversary Subs have the green bezel.  Unlike other Submariners they also have the maxi dial. There is a new one 'the hulk' that has the green bezel AND a green dial.   A little too much green for me on that one.   

I wish they had a a 48v version though...  ;)   ^^ sorry for the hijack

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #36 on: February 01, 2011, 09:18:02 AM »
I am going to develop a preamp, we are already working on the phantom supply circuit that will be the size of the 9100 preamp with FULL 48 volts and operate on 2 AA batteries or 9V we have yet to determine this. The preamp will have a single gain control with 6-12 steps and a simple vu meter. I will have this finished by the end of this year. This will be one of the smallest preamps in existence for stealth work. There will be other features that I cant speak of at the moment but its coming. When it does we will allow one to be lent out on the loaner section with a security deposit for evaluation. I am also in the works of opening up a Church Audio USA for emergency service of this preamp and for future designs / products all existing Church Audio products will be sold in Canada.. All preamps including the new line will still be shipped from Canada and be hand built by me. This preamp will be stereo.
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

Offline Chuck

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #37 on: February 01, 2011, 09:38:40 AM »
That's great Chris.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: Microtech Gefell M300, AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements, CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and mod-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Online jbell

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #38 on: February 01, 2011, 09:44:11 AM »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) > Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

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Offline page

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #39 on: February 01, 2011, 12:32:00 PM »
today is like christmas in july for folks after small gear.

Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

If you are just asking between the two options, maybe create a poll? dunno if that would be better or not.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline acidjack

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2011, 12:33:50 PM »
OK then, I can't let a core product line go, I'll have long tinybox with P48 out by the end of March . . . that is 0.9" x 2.1" x 4.7", or 9 cu. in.  I'll try and see if I can keep the design to 4" deep and cut the case, that case is easier to lop off than the others, that will keep it to 7.5 cu. in.

Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

- All front panel controls:  6-pin mini-XLR, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, on/off switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  Basically the same as tinybox but with P48.

- Rear panel input:  2x 3-pin mini-XLRs on rear; front panel:  minijack PIP input, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, low/off/high power switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  This is a littlebox in an extended tinybox case.r

I'd think for what you are doing, all front panel controls would be better....
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
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Offline notlance

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #41 on: February 01, 2011, 12:48:32 PM »
Need a vote on feature set though, here are two options:

- All front panel controls:  6-pin mini-XLR, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, on/off switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  Basically the same as tinybox but with P48.

- Rear panel input:  2x 3-pin mini-XLRs on rear; front panel:  minijack PIP input, three-position gain switch, high-current minijack out, low/off/high power switch, dual green/red LED for on/peak/low battery.  This is a littlebox in an extended tinybox case.r

I vote for the second option with rear panel inputs.  I never run out of a bag so I don't need the front inputs, and since I have a SD 788t I already have the 3-pin mini XLR to XLR adaptors already built.  Selfish reasons all.

Offline page

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #42 on: February 01, 2011, 12:58:08 PM »
I vote for the second option with rear panel inputs.  I never run out of a bag so I don't need the front inputs, and since I have a SD 788t I already have the 3-pin mini XLR to XLR adaptors already built.  Selfish reasons all.

Exactly, open taping, I'd probably go for the 2x 3pin for similar reasons, but if I was stealthing, that single 6pin on the front with nothing on the back looks mighty appealing...
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline Napo

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #43 on: February 01, 2011, 01:21:42 PM »
Even with stealthing I would go for front and rear panels.

Soldering a six-pin cable may be a bitch and not very durable.

BTW, Chris, Jon; you are my champions for stealth situations (the only option in 99% of cases in Italy). I will end up buying both  ;D

CA-11's>CA-9200>M10

Online jbell

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Re: Smallest Pre-amp with 48v Phantom Power
« Reply #44 on: February 01, 2011, 01:25:23 PM »
I'd vote for the 2 mini xlrs too!
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) > Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

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|Record|  Runtime: 4:19.99  {|||] 75%

 

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