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Author Topic: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?  (Read 2177 times)

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Offline moonchilddave

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Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« on: March 04, 2011, 11:54:20 PM »
Wondering if I should make any upgrades in this area.  I just upgraded from a Sony MZR900 MD to the R-09HR and now I'm considering upgrading the mic power if there are better options out there.    Currently I have a Sound Professionals BB with the dual level controls and bass rolloff options and for a preamp I'm using their "Dual Channel Microphone Preamplifier" (with the single knob level adjust).  Are there better options that would get me a better sound and are worth the cost?  Also, I mainly stealth things so keeping the size reasonable is also fairly important.

Offline Belexes

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #1 on: March 07, 2011, 08:08:53 AM »
Check out the Church Audio Pre's in the retail section of this board.
Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > HiHo Silver XLR's > Deck TBD

CA-14 (c,o)/MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod)/AT853(4.7k mod)(c,o,h,sc)/CAFS (o)/CA-1 (o) > CA-9100 (V. 4.1)/CA-9200/CA-UBB > Sony PCM-D50/Sony PCM-M10

Offline acidjack

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2011, 03:59:33 PM »
I'm not entirely sure the Church pres and Sound Pros pres have been compared side by side, but I could consider the specs at least before buying another pre, since the SP one and the Church are in the same price range (the Church is less expensive, I think).  I just bought a Church one myself and liked the ones I owned in the past, but I'm not entirely sure that one would be an upgrade to what you have.

Similarly, if you're recording loud rock music, and especially if you already have that SP pre, I'm not sure it will make that much of a difference.   I think you would see a bigger difference getting some additional or different mics or additional caps for the mics you have.  That's where I would spend my money in your case.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline moonchilddave

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2011, 05:05:05 PM »
As for my mics, I already have caps for omni, card, and hyper - as well as a 2 different mic stands that let me do just about every config.  For loud rock concerts I go with the SP battery box so I don't end up brickwalling.  I was thinking possibly going to mini-XLR plugs - but my understanding is that may drop my levels a significant bit, and I'm not sure if that would make the sound quality signifcantly better since the last thing in the chain will still be a stereo miniplug to the R-09HR.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2011, 05:09:23 PM by moonchilddave »

Offline kinglerxst

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2011, 06:59:54 PM »
I've run the AT933's for over 10 years now through a pair of AT power modules (originally into an M1 DAT and now an R-09) and I really love the rig and it's pulled some great and killer stuff over the years. Running a pair of them is probably slightly more gear than a single box, but it's never been an issue for me. They do require the mini-xlr mic connections, but I love those as well since they LOCK :)

One thing I'd also recommend for the 933's is a pair of the sub-cardioid elements, I really like them as an alternate between the cards and going fully omni which can be not such a good thing in a crowd as you get a bit of both as far as room feel with the subs.

Offline moonchilddave

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 09:55:12 AM »
I've run the AT933's for over 10 years now through a pair of AT power modules (originally into an M1 DAT and now an R-09) and I really love the rig and it's pulled some great and killer stuff over the years. Running a pair of them is probably slightly more gear than a single box, but it's never been an issue for me. They do require the mini-xlr mic connections, but I love those as well since they LOCK :)

One thing I'd also recommend for the 933's is a pair of the sub-cardioid elements, I really like them as an alternate between the cards and going fully omni which can be not such a good thing in a crowd as you get a bit of both as far as room feel with the subs.

Do you notice any difference in quality with the mini-xlr's or is the big advantage that they do lock?  I may have to pick up the subs and give them a whirl... With the sub elements do you find you need to roll off the bass any like you'd have to with the omni elements?

Offline kinglerxst

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2011, 10:36:26 AM »
>Do you notice any difference in quality with the mini-xlr's or is the big advantage that they do lock?

As far as the sound quality, I think it's the use of the power modules themselves, I run an AT8532 module for each mic and each module runs on a 9V battery. I do love that they lock, and the output for the modules is the larger xlr, so they also lock, the only non-locking connection I have is the 1/8" mini going into the recorder.

I mainly record loud rock/classic rock shows and running the modules also allows some pretty high SPL, I've run literally right under huge stacks at Rush and even front row in front of huge stacks for the Scorpions and got great results. They also work nicely in a variety of settings, from arenas and sheds to smaller theaters and even outdoor open air fair style gigs.


>I may have to pick up the subs and give them a whirl... With the sub elements do you find you need to roll off the bass any like >you'd have to with the omni elements?

I've pretty much run the subs, cards and omni's with flat setting (no bass roll-off) and have never really had any issues, maybe some have had a slight cut in post. The subs are similar to the regular cards, but give you more of an omni feel with more room space feel and some added punch clarity.

Alot of this has to do with how the sound person is running the sound and your location in the venue and how loud of a SPL is coming from the PA, but as far as all-around capture of sound I really like how the power modules work with the 933's.

If you have access to DIME you can search my username there and find a list of some shows I have taped, pretty much all of those are the 933's running with the power modules and include arena, shed and HOB style shows.

Offline moonchilddave

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2011, 09:55:58 PM »
I don't see the sub-cards on the SP site anymore... Are they no longer made or is there someone else that carries them?

Offline kinglerxst

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2011, 12:22:37 AM »
>I don't see the sub-cards on the SP site anymore... Are they no longer made or is there someone else that carries them?

I sent you a PM with some info that may help locate them.

Offline acidjack

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Re: Preamp/BB for AT933/R-09HR?
« Reply #9 on: March 11, 2011, 03:53:15 PM »
Just a note to add, if you are dead-set on getting mini-XLRs for the 933s, Church Audio can make you a CA-9200 pre with 2x mini XLR inputs (he made me one awhile back for a rig I was using).  I'd look into that before running with two separate boxes, assuming you are taping  >:D and want to minimize how much gear you're carrying in. 
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

 

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