Topic: Sony PCM-M10, Olympus LS-11, Tascam DR-2d: internal mics, my comparison

[Federico78]

This is my first thread in this great forum. I'm a pianist / keyboardist who is looking for the best handheld recorder in the $200 something category.

I'll use this recorder to make some decent on the fly recordings of my original songs played at the acoustic piano and synthesizer, and also (secondary) for making some decent live shows recordings.

The main thing I'm interested is the quality of the internal mics and line in. I'm aware that with external mics and preamps the results would be better, but for quality and serious (well, not so serious but for me are ok) recordings I already have my Fireface 400 and some good quality condenser mics.

I want something that if I have a musical idea I simply put the recorder in the tripod, hit the record button twice and have the best quality possible.

So I started searching, reading manuals, reading forums, reading customer reviews from on line shops, listening to audio samples...worse than working, believe me.

The main sites where I was able to form my opinion were this forum, wingfieldaudio.com and audiotrskription.de. Also spare opinions from minor forums and customer reviews in Amazon and the like helped.

At first I narrowed down my list to Sony PCM-M10, Olympus LS-11 and Tascam DR-2d. Their prices differ for 30-40 dollars, so they're all in the same ballpark for me. I'm always tempted by the PCM-D50, but it's too expensive and it is becoming to be a little old, for example it doesn't record in mp3 which for me it's important.

Listening to the audio examples on the internet, the Tascam seems to be a little bit more detailed and "alive" than the Olympus, and more detailed and "alive" than the PCM-M10.

PCM-M10 internal mics are very quiet, but also a little bit muffled (even they're still high quality as internal mics) for my tastes.

The stereo image of the Tascam is better then Sony (of course, given that the Sony has omnis), but maybe a little bit inferior to Olympus. Not that far anyway.

My findings seem to be confirmed by various people opinions, here and in other forums.

I think the Sony is great when used with external mics, the best of the three, its preamps are really high quality. For this reason I undestand why in this forum is highly appreciated (the most of you use external stuff).

So if someone would plan to use the recorder with external mics I would suggest to buy the Sony.

But internal mics - wise, the best are the LS-11 and the DR-2d. And the DR-2D seems to be even slightly better than Olympus, I would say impressive, almost as good as PCM-D50 internal mics. The only fear I have is that in some recordings made by the DR-2d I could hear some subtle distortion (with both headphones MDR-7506 and HS80m speakers). The famous organ sound sample in audiotrskription.de shows this subtle distortion, like a cracking. Others recordings instead are perfect, so I could assume that the user set the wrong recording level...I hope...

The Tascam seems to have really everything (except the battery performance which is poor compared to Olympus, but the new firmware seems to have improved this, allowing 5-6 hours of recording), 4 track capability at 96kHz/24 bit, good line in (6dBV against -4dBV of Olympus), wireless remote control. Maybe the mic preamps of the Olympus are better, but for my use this is not fundamental. Also the DR-2d costs 40 dollars less tha the Olympus. Of course I'd like to have the battery performance of the Olympus but you cannot have everything...

In the end, I think I made my decision. I'm about to pull the trigger on a Tascam DR-2d. This seems to be the best for my budget and my needs. I hope I won't have the subtle distortion problem. Only for this reason I was undecided between it and the LS-11. But I think it is just a problem created by my mind.

Other opinions are welcome. Sorry for the long post.

[rastasean]

Enjoy whatever recorder you get. The few you listed are pretty popular and manufactures pretty much try to listen to the consumers and not make junk.
With that said, don't expect cd quality, orchestra hall, radio play from your first recordings. It will take you awhile to figure out how to best position the recorder and what levels to set it at.

As you already mentioned, external mics and pre-armps are the better way to make a nicer recording but that should be months or a year or two away from where you are now, IMO. Even then, mics and pre-amps don't need to bankrupt you. One of the members here, tapinfool, records his daughters high school orchestra with ~$450-500 mics, $250-350 pre-amp and $90-120 recorder. (Those prices are all generalized and my best guess based on prices I've seen in the yard sale section over the past three or so years.) 
Here is the most recent recording of his: http://www.archive.org/details/KAHSB2011-02-17.adk51le.flac

Keep us posted on your progress of the audio recording world.

[Federico78]

Thanks rastasean for your opinion and the links. I listened to the recordings, very good stuff.

I'm not a newbie for mics positioning cause I made a lot of piano recordings using my Samson C02 mics connected to the Fireface 400. I also used for a while the Tascam PR-10 that I gave to my father.

[axomxa]

Hello,

I have been using the PCM-D50 since I "upped" from DAT a couple of years ago.  The primary reason for that as opposed to a higher end (661 or tascam) was I opted to put most of my $$ into the preamp (Lunetec V3) about six years ago, which to me is the key for audience taping.  I run various "vintage" mics mostly the senn MS14P with interchangeable caps.  Anyway the key to me for concert taping is the processor/preamp.  It might be different in your application, but the D50 internal mics are also very good as I use for stealth.

Here is a link to one recording with the rig described.  Good luck and most of all have fun recording. 

http://www.archive.org/details/further2010-07-30.SennMS14P.mke4010.v3.flac16

[Federico78]

Here is a link to one recording with the rig described.   

http://www.archive.org/details/further2010-07-30.SennMS14P.mke4010.v3.flac16

I'm just seeing your reply, and listening your sample...well the D50 in combination with Lunatek / Senn sounds awesome! Thanks for sharing.

Good luck and most of all have fun recording.

Thanks!
I received yesterday my Tascam DR-2d and yes I'm having a lot of fun with it! I can confirm that the audio demos in audiotraskription.de give good ideas of the Tascam.
This little thing is capturing a lot of details from my piano, I'm really satisfied, hours reading and searching have not been wasted.
As a musician I can only appreciate such functions as the metronome.
I installed the latest firmware, the stock batteries lasted around 6 hours.

Of course I'm still playing with it but I obtained already good results. I'm also very satisfied regarding its playback quality...the line out is very good, I listened to some my mp3s and I'm delighted.

[stantheman1976]

I had the D50 for a couple years and was looking for another hand held recorder.  I had it down to the M10 or DR-2d.  I decided on the Tascam and am happy so far.  I really like the dual record mode and decided if I was going to have fixed internals I'd rather have cardioids.  I've compared the D50 and 2d internals and they sound very close.  I've also recorded line in on the Tascam and it works great.  I wish it got battery like like the M10 or D50 but with decent alkalines it's not that bad.  Use some lithiums or reghargeables and it's even better.

[techgui]

Doesn't the Tascam Dr-2d have omni's?  Incorrect

Edit - Confirmed by Tascam, it does indeed had cards not omni's.