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Author Topic: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??  (Read 13388 times)

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Offline yates7592

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Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« on: May 06, 2011, 03:16:23 AM »
I'm hoping some of you can share some knowledge to help me to decide which new pre-amp to go for. I currently have a Church UGLY and have no problem with this, it's a great little preamp. But I will be going to a festival where I'd like the flexibility to change gain settings very quickly and probably frequently over 2-3 days. As i understand it, both the Tinybox and 9100/9200 are similar sizes but both a lot bigger than the UGLY, but that won't be a problem for this festival.

I mostly record loud-very loud bands so would the Tinybox or Church preamp(s) be better at taking a hot signal? I know the Church preamps can take very hot signals (from experience) but i don't know much about the Tinybox.

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2011, 04:38:09 AM »
I wouldn't say the Tinybox is A LOT larger than the Ugly. Maybe twice as big...but I guess all of this depends on your opinion of "a lot."

The Tinybox does not have infinite gain adjustment. You have 3 choices (low, med, high). I don't recall the exact amount of gain for each setting, but I have ALWAYS used the Med setting without issue. I just set it to medium and make adjustments on my recorder. I would consider most of the shows I've been to with it as average loudness for a concert. Never ear splitting, but I would assume you could change the gain to low if required.
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||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ DPA 4080 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
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Offline yates7592

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2011, 05:58:06 AM »
Thanks for the info. The middle gain setting is about +18dB right?

Also, how do you find your Nevatons with the Tinybox, and what cable/input do you use? Presumably you have some sort of dual mini-xlr to single mini-xlr cable direct into the Tinybox?

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2011, 06:30:55 AM »
Jon (Naiant) makes a female XLR > Mini 5 (or 6) pin to go from the Nevaton (or any other XLR term mic that can run on the Tinybox's Phantom power) to the Tinybox input (which I think is a 6 pin mini-XLR now). The Nevatons terminate into a normal XLR.

They work fantastic with the Tinybox. Very good combo, IMO. I actually like it quite a bit more than when I owned the DPA 4060's > DPA MMA 6000 combo ($1400 for DPA vs. $600 for Nevaton/Tinybox).
-24      -12              -6             0       OVER
||||||||||||||||||||||||||| []  
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||| []

||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ DPA 4080 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Sony M10 |||
||| PLAYBACK: Outlaw Audio RR2150 > Epos ELS8 |||
||| PHOTO: Sony a6000 | Sony 16-50 | Sony 55-210 | Rokinon 14mm | Rokinon 8mm |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2011, 10:50:46 PM »
I am also VERY CURIOUS about this particular thread :)
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Offline printguy

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2011, 06:32:17 AM »
Here's a side-by-side of my TinyBox and CA-9100:
hipfans.comThe Hip Tracker
CA-11 or CA-14 > Naiant TinyBox > Tascam DR-1
Neumann KM184s > R-44

Offline yates7592

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2011, 09:38:21 AM »
Here's a side-by-side of my TinyBox and CA-9100:

Thanks that's a really useful shot. Which do you prefer and why? Would you say one is better for loud shows than the other?

Offline printguy

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2011, 10:37:13 AM »
I prefer the TinyBox for three easons: solid metal construction is extremely durable; lithium ion battery lasts forever and is rechargeable; and lastly the three preamp setting ensure that I get the same settings everytime.
hipfans.comThe Hip Tracker
CA-11 or CA-14 > Naiant TinyBox > Tascam DR-1
Neumann KM184s > R-44

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2011, 02:13:25 PM »
not to hijack-- but could anyone get a side by side of littlebox extended case vs 9100?
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
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Offline yates7592

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2011, 04:23:25 PM »
I prefer the TinyBox for three easons: solid metal construction is extremely durable; lithium ion battery lasts forever and is rechargeable; and lastly the three preamp setting ensure that I get the same settings everytime.

Nice info thanks/ So would the internal battery last me say 10 hours at 24/96 with an R09-HR?

Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2011, 09:42:43 PM »
I feel you need to consider your recorder, I prefer the infinite adjustable gain with the CA9100 with my iRiver recorder. Yes you can adjust gain on the iRiver, but, it is cleaner on the Church Audio. You may be able to attenuate a Tiny Box IDK.

IMHO both are great clean sounding little Preamps. I've had the Church Pre built to my specs for almost 3 years and love it with the AT853's/iRiver for low pro.

That said, I ultimately intend on upgrading to a Sony M10 and Tiny Box once the AKG CK6x Active is available.
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Offline Napo

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2011, 01:44:34 AM »
I agree that they are both great preamps.

On the new Ca-9200 (the one with extra gains) I might have an issue on the sound. I say 'I might' because I did not test it thoroughly.

The issue: using the combo CA11 cards>CA9100>M10 I had a very close (to your face) sound. Just replacing the 9100 with the 9200 the sound appears more distant. Tried to get confirmation from the dedicated CA thread but to no avail. So treat my post with caution.
CA-11's>CA-9200>M10

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2011, 02:13:53 AM »
Does anyone know how muchh gain is added in the low/mid/high gain settings of the TinyBox ??? I dont know which way to go now. I like the variable gain of the 9100/9200, but prefer the durability and simplicity of the TB ?!?!
Recording Gear:
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2011, 02:14:25 AM »
So who's got a comp of CA-14[Cards]>9100/TinyBox ???
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
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Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

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Offline Napo

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2011, 02:25:40 AM »
Does anyone know how muchh gain is added in the low/mid/high gain settings of the TinyBox ??? I dont know which way to go now. I like the variable gain of the 9100/9200, but prefer the durability and simplicity of the TB ?!?!

It is customable: standard is +4;+16;+32
CA-11's>CA-9200>M10

Offline yates7592

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #15 on: May 08, 2011, 04:14:48 AM »
I agree that they are both great preamps.

On the new Ca-9200 (the one with extra gains) I might have an issue on the sound. I say 'I might' because I did not test it thoroughly.

The issue: using the combo CA11 cards>CA9100>M10 I had a very close (to your face) sound. Just replacing the 9100 with the 9200 the sound appears more distant. Tried to get confirmation from the dedicated CA thread but to no avail. So treat my post with caution.

That's interesting.
I asked Chris Church a question re the upper frequency response of the 9100 vs the 9200. The 9200 has a flat response from 20Hz to 20kHz. The 9100 (and UGLY) has a flat response also from 20Hz but to an upper limit of 90kHz. So in theory the 9200 is not much use if you want to go for hi-res files. But i doubt that explains the phoneomenon you describe re the closeness.

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2011, 09:14:58 AM »
I agree that they are both great preamps.

On the new Ca-9200 (the one with extra gains) I might have an issue on the sound. I say 'I might' because I did not test it thoroughly.

The issue: using the combo CA11 cards>CA9100>M10 I had a very close (to your face) sound. Just replacing the 9100 with the 9200 the sound appears more distant. Tried to get confirmation from the dedicated CA thread but to no avail. So treat my post with caution.



That's interesting.
I asked Chris Church a question re the upper frequency response of the 9100 vs the 9200. The 9200 has a flat response from 20Hz to 20kHz. The 9100 (and UGLY) has a flat response also from 20Hz but to an upper limit of 90kHz. So in theory the 9200 is not much use if you want to go for hi-res files. But i doubt that explains the phoneomenon you describe re the closeness.
The 9200 goes way beyond 20khz. But Its not quite as extended as 90khz. It would start to roll off around 50k more than enough for hi res recording.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 10:28:06 AM by Church-Audio »
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2011, 09:42:31 AM »
So who's got a comp of CA-14[Cards]>9100/TinyBox ???

I'd be very interested in this as well if someone has/would do a comp.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2011, 04:19:24 PM »
not to hijack-- but could anyone get a side by side of littlebox extended case vs 9100?

Make a stack of six tinyboxes and that's about the size of the littlebox extended case.

isn't that pretty ef'in big?

Seems tough /impossible to stealth through a patdown, yea?
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

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Offline acidjack

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2011, 05:00:31 PM »
not to hijack-- but could anyone get a side by side of littlebox extended case vs 9100?

Make a stack of six tinyboxes and that's about the size of the littlebox extended case.

isn't that pretty ef'in big?

Seems tough /impossible to stealth through a patdown, yea?

I've done it sans-patdown with a regular case littlebox, and it fits OK in a big jacket pocket.  But I would not think it's acceptable for going through a patdown, no.  Of course, there are people who  >:D with SD boxes, so what do I know...
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2011, 06:08:08 PM »
not to hijack-- but could anyone get a side by side of littlebox extended case vs 9100?
Make a stack of six tinyboxes and that's about the size of the littlebox extended case.

size comparison of Littlebox extended case to my recorders





Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2011, 07:46:59 PM »
not to hijack-- but could anyone get a side by side of littlebox extended case vs 9100?
Make a stack of six tinyboxes and that's about the size of the littlebox extended case.

size comparison of Littlebox extended case to my recorders






Nice sticker. I have a Trey Band sticker on my LB and also an Apple logo from my ipod :)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline bluntforcetrauma

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #22 on: May 09, 2011, 01:40:22 AM »
how does the tinybox compare in size to the sonosax sxm2?

I would like to buy one to try a tinybox out?

is there a link?

a wait list?

thanks in advance

Offline M

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #23 on: May 09, 2011, 01:45:53 AM »
Somewhere around a third or a quarter the size of the sax.
Beyer CK930>Naiant TB>M10

Offline travelinbeat

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #24 on: May 09, 2011, 02:34:49 AM »
not to hijack-- but could anyone get a side by side of littlebox extended case vs 9100?
Make a stack of six tinyboxes and that's about the size of the littlebox extended case.

size comparison of Littlebox extended case to my recorders

Actually that sticker is a great reference point!  Thanks for those!

I never said it wasn't.

Apologies-- I didn't mean to sound critical, I was expecting it to be large, I was just trying to tease out some clearer picture of exactly what size it would be-- I'm still super interested in getting one, btw =)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2011, 02:37:31 AM by travelinbeat »
Mics: Busman BSC1's K1/K2/K3/K4, CA-14's
Units: 2x Edirol R-09HR, iRiver H120 (RockBox + 2200mAh + CF mod)
Power & Accessories: Naiant Littlebox 1.5, Church ST-9100, Denecke PS-2, 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD2/8GB), 2x Kingston SDHC (Model: SD4/16GB), Kingston 32GB (Model: SD4/32GB), Darktrain XLR, 2x Shure A81WS's, 4x Powerex 9.6v, 12x Sanyo 2700 NiMH, 2x AT8410A's

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Offline yates7592

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #25 on: May 09, 2011, 03:42:56 AM »
Well, my current thinking is i am going to give the Tinybox a shot for 3 reasons: - i already have an UGLY so a 9100/9200 would be quite similar; - the Tinybox will allow me to try out my Nevatons at last; - the gain switch is fixed rather than variable.
I say 'current' because i may well change my mind at the last minute!

Offline yates7592

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #26 on: May 09, 2011, 03:55:27 AM »
Jon (Naiant) makes a female XLR > Mini 5 (or 6) pin to go from the Nevaton (or any other XLR term mic that can run on the Tinybox's Phantom power) to the Tinybox input (which I think is a 6 pin mini-XLR now). The Nevatons terminate into a normal XLR.

They work fantastic with the Tinybox. Very good combo, IMO. I actually like it quite a bit more than when I owned the DPA 4060's > DPA MMA 6000 combo ($1400 for DPA vs. $600 for Nevaton/Tinybox).

I beleive you can specify a minplug input on the Tinybox. I already have a Dual XLR to miniplug cable - do you think this would also work ok with the Nevatons, or would i have to go for the mini-xlr input and getting another dual XLR to mini-xlr cable?

Offline Belexes

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2011, 06:18:05 PM »
Is there really a noticeable difference in the sound when running these different pre's with small condenser mics?  Curious as to opinions here.
Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > HiHo Silver XLR's > Deck TBD

CA-14 (c,o)/MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod)/AT853(4.7k mod)(c,o,h,sc)/CAFS (o)/CA-1 (o) > CA-9100 (V. 4.1)/CA-9200/CA-UBB > Sony PCM-D50/Sony PCM-M10

Offline printguy

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2011, 06:26:44 PM »
Is there really a noticeable difference in the sound when running these different pre's with small condenser mics?  Curious as to opinions here.
I didn't notice any difference between the CA-9100 and the TinyBox with my CA-11s or CA-14s.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2011, 08:42:37 PM »
Is there really a noticeable difference in the sound when running these different pre's with small condenser mics?  Curious as to opinions here.
I didn't notice any difference between the CA-9100 and the TinyBox with my CA-11s or CA-14s.

Thats because they are both good preamps :)
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2011, 11:31:08 PM »
Is there really a noticeable difference in the sound when running these different pre's with small condenser mics?  Curious as to opinions here.
I didn't notice any difference between the CA-9100 and the TinyBox with my CA-11s or CA-14s.

Thats because they are both good preamps :)

Yeah, I duno which way to go yet. I am buying a simple BB to hold me over, until I can finally decide and until my festie season is over so I have the $$ to buy one, or the other :)
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #31 on: May 10, 2011, 02:15:01 AM »
well, the TB has more gain up to 32 than CA-9100
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #32 on: May 10, 2011, 08:49:41 AM »
well, the TB has more gain up to 32 than CA-9100

The new 9200 has 40 db via 6 gain settings.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2011, 09:15:55 AM »
tbox can actually do up to 44dB, but you need to be careful about getting addicted to gain figures, you probably don't need as much gain as you think you might.  If you consider that very few sources even have 80dB of dynamic range, and you have a recorder with 110dB of dynamic range, then you should have 30dB of headroom if gain is correctly set.

All you really need to do is get preamp noise above recorder noise (when set at unity).  That is probably a maximum required gain *ever* of 30dB, and it might be as low as 20dB.  After that, you are free to use digital gain changes without penalty.
My preamp will do 44.543 db of gain  :P
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #34 on: May 10, 2011, 09:24:29 AM »
Hi, Chris;

can you explain the distinctive difference I hear from the 9100 and 9200 in the closeness of sound?  (the former giving me much closer sound).
I must say I tested the 9200 only three times but in different environments and the difference was always there.

For the rest, I love my new 9200 with the extra gain for my jazz music.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #35 on: May 10, 2011, 09:55:19 AM »
Hi, Chris;

can you explain the distinctive difference I hear from the 9100 and 9200 in the closeness of sound?  (the former giving me much closer sound).
I must say I tested the 9200 only three times but in different environments and the difference was always there.

For the rest, I love my new 9200 with the extra gain for my jazz music.

I dont really understand closeness of sound.. you must make sure you are using the same amount of gain in both situations if not then one would sound more distant. The 9100 is +22 db the 9200 is max +40db.

Chris
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #36 on: May 10, 2011, 12:00:56 PM »
So it looks like the take away is that they are both good pre's, both provide plenty of gain when figuring in the 9200.  The TB can be run on a Lith Ion battery, so if someone were doing an outrageous amount of festival taping that may be the one to go to.  I get by fine with the CA pre's, swapping out for a fresh 9v battery every so often.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #37 on: May 10, 2011, 12:28:05 PM »
So it looks like the take away is that they are both good pre's, both provide plenty of gain when figuring in the 9200.  The TB can be run on a Lith Ion battery, so if someone were doing an outrageous amount of festival taping that may be the one to go to.  I get by fine with the CA pre's, swapping out for a fresh 9v battery every so often.
Or get a MaHa 9.6 volt battery for $6.00 and never have to worry about spending money on batteries.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2011, 12:37:10 PM »
So it looks like the take away is that they are both good pre's, both provide plenty of gain when figuring in the 9200.  The TB can be run on a Lith Ion battery, so if someone were doing an outrageous amount of festival taping that may be the one to go to.  I get by fine with the CA pre's, swapping out for a fresh 9v battery every so often.
Or get a MaHa 9.6 volt battery for $6.00 and never have to worry about spending money on batteries.
Interesting tip; you have to buy the recharger though, I believe.
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #39 on: May 10, 2011, 02:17:33 PM »
I bought a charger and three 9.6 Maha batteries in December '09 and haven't bought a 9V since. I meter the batteries before every show, but haven't done a test for just how long the 9100 goes on a full charge. I did one swap at a festival recently and taped roughly 32 hours of audio with the pre cranked all the way.

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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #40 on: May 10, 2011, 04:13:39 PM »
So it looks like the take away is that they are both good pre's, both provide plenty of gain when figuring in the 9200.  The TB can be run on a Lith Ion battery, so if someone were doing an outrageous amount of festival taping that may be the one to go to.  I get by fine with the CA pre's, swapping out for a fresh 9v battery every so often.
Or get a MaHa 9.6 volt battery for $6.00 and never have to worry about spending money on batteries.
Interesting tip; you have to buy the recharger though, I believe.

Yes I think it goes with out saying if you buy a rechargeable battery one must also have a means of charging the said battery  :P
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2011, 12:53:29 AM »
.. and so the price goes up from 6 US$ to something over 60US$  >:D. Yet still saving if the battery can be recharged over 1000 times as claimed.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2011, 12:55:20 AM by Napo »
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2011, 08:52:28 AM »
.. and so the price goes up from 6 US$ to something over 60US$  >:D. Yet still saving if the battery can be recharged over 1000 times as claimed.

Actually the cheapest and functional 9 volt charger I could find on ebay was $7.50 with free shipping and the Maha Power ex 9.6v battery was $9.99 I dont know where you get $60 from but its a little on the high side :)
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Re: Niant Tinybox OR Church 9100/9200 ??
« Reply #43 on: May 22, 2011, 12:15:58 AM »
.. and so the price goes up from 6 US$ to something over 60US$  >:D. Yet still saving if the battery can be recharged over 1000 times as claimed.

Actually the cheapest and functional 9 volt charger I could find on ebay was $7.50 with free shipping and the Maha Power ex 9.6v battery was $9.99 I dont know where you get $60 from but its a little on the high side :)

Chris, thanks for the tips! The charger I had found was that suggested to go with Maha and housed 4 batteries. Indeed on the high side.
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