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Author Topic: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?  (Read 14088 times)

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Offline nino

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USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« on: May 24, 2011, 05:32:53 PM »
Hi,

I need help to put together a battery powered setup for the USBPre2, passing the digital signal via SPDIF to a MicroTrackII for a cheap, small and lightweight combo (limited to 24/96). Would there be a difference in the signal if I'd use a PCM-D50 as DAT?
I understand that I will need an additional battery powered USB power source for the field. I would greatly appreciate if you could tell me where to find a tried product.

Later on, I might invest in an iPad via USB. Did you try that? Quality-wise this might be preferable, because this combo should be able to go up to 192kHz, right?

Thank you in advance for any help with this (I know that I'm not the only one interested in this combo ;-)

nino

Offline jbell

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2011, 06:00:30 PM »
Sony PCM D50 isn't a DAT!!!  I would get a D50 to run with the USBpre2 instead of the MTII.  The D50 runs on AA batteries and gets really good run times. 

Hi,

I need help to put together a battery powered setup for the USBPre2, passing the digital signal via SPDIF to a MicroTrackII for a cheap, small and lightweight combo (limited to 24/96). Would there be a difference in the signal if I'd use a PCM-D50 as DAT?
I understand that I will need an additional battery powered USB power source for the field. I would greatly appreciate if you could tell me where to find a tried product.

Later on, I might invest in an iPad via USB. Did you try that? Quality-wise this might be preferable, because this combo should be able to go up to 192kHz, right?

Thank you in advance for any help with this (I know that I'm not the only one interested in this combo ;-)

nino
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Offline nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2011, 06:14:46 PM »
Just a random technical point, but 192kHz is not necessarily higher quality than 96kHz--it trades accuracy for (unnecessary) frequency response.

I hear. Thank you! But other than that what would be the difference?

Offline nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 06:42:20 PM »
Sony PCM D50 isn't a DAT!!!  I would get a D50 to run with the USBpre2 instead of the MTII.  The D50 runs on AA batteries and gets really good run times. 

Oops I should have said recorder. I used vocabulary that came to me from my days in sound recordist classes in the 90's.

The D50 is evidently more rugged, but more expensive than a used MTII, bigger, heavier and uses Sony's propitiatory memory sticks. I planned on running the MTII from external power, but now I don't know...

Offline nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 06:48:02 PM »
[...] http://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/568180-192khz-sampling-loss-accuracy.html

Thank you for all that info! Good that you gave me that link, cause I didn't know what to read tonight ;-) I'll try to follow as much as I can.

And between the D50 and the MTII there should be no difference when recording through the S/PDIF, right? Though, I hear the advice to chose the D50 over the MTII.



« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 06:51:54 PM by nino »

Offline nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 07:07:16 PM »
Does anybody have such practical info as where to get which external battery USB power source for the USBPre 2?

Offline mepaca

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 08:33:29 PM »
Does anybody have such practical info as where to get which external battery USB power source for the USBPre 2?

This Tekkeon http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/618847-REG/Tekkeon_MP3450I_myPower_ALL_Plus_MP3450i.html works like a champ. It powers my usbpre2 and r-44 for 9 1/2 hours. It would power the d50 even longer. It provides usb power and powers any other device between 5 and 19 volts.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 11:22:32 PM »
I would say get a D50 too
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 11:41:53 PM »
I would say d50 too. For powering the usbpre2, it just needs 5 volt power so a simple 4 aa battery sled can do that.
I picked up a sled on ebay for $5 and is essentially nothing more than a plastic box with usb, but you can purchase one like this: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=145628.0
 
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2011, 03:15:44 PM »
@Mepaca and Rastasean

I checked those power options. It looks like I will be able to power the USBPRe2 using 2xP48 and the recorder out of this one charger. That would be a very handy one device solution.

@Bean and Rastasean

Why would you choose the D50 over the MTII? Overall, the D50 is obviously the better machine, but when using the MTII exclusively to record the S/PDIF signal from the USBPre2 why should it be any worse for that sole purpose? Is there any technical reason?

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2011, 03:43:28 PM »
^^  They have poor battery runtimes and it is internal so difficult to replace, Loses signal during recording, and has lockup issues.  It isn't a reliable recorder
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2011, 04:09:31 PM »
^^  They have poor battery runtimes and it is internal so difficult to replace, Loses signal during recording, and has lockup issues.  It isn't a reliable recorder
I hear. Thank you!
But than maybe instead of the D50, I could get an iPad for the same money and use that to record. Is there any reason for this to be less efficient than a D50?

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2011, 04:13:21 PM »
I would think a D50 would be a much easier device to use for recording and probably have better battery run times!  I have never used an ipad so not really sure.
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Offline nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #13 on: May 25, 2011, 04:19:32 PM »
I would think a D50 would be a much easier device to use for recording and probably have better battery run times!  I have never used an ipad so not really sure.
Neither have I, but I figure you could feed directly on the field all the software you want... That's tempting if feasible.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #14 on: May 25, 2011, 04:51:35 PM »
^^  They have poor battery runtimes and it is internal so difficult to replace, Loses signal during recording, and has lockup issues.  It isn't a reliable recorder
I hear. Thank you!
But than maybe instead of the D50, I could get an iPad for the same money and use that to record. Is there any reason for this to be less efficient than a D50?

I would get the d50 and be done with it. I haven't owned the d50 or the microtrack II but I certainly would not own it based on what I have heard and read about it.

Why would you consider getting a portable web browser to record as opposed to a stand alone device?
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #15 on: May 25, 2011, 05:10:56 PM »
[...]
Why would you consider getting a portable web browser to record as opposed to a stand alone device?
For two reasons: I thought of getting one anyway to show my photography work etc. And also, because I thought that it would be nice to monitor the recording live, though I don't know to which extent that is possible on an iPad.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #16 on: May 25, 2011, 05:19:53 PM »
[...]
Why would you consider getting a portable web browser to record as opposed to a stand alone device?
For two reasons: I thought of getting one anyway to show my photography work etc. And also, because I thought that it would be nice to monitor the recording live, though I don't know to which extent that is possible on an iPad.

I'm sure there is an app that will allow you to record in high res that you can use with the usbpre2 but so it certainly may be worth it but I think the former reason makes more sense: to show photographs. People don't carry around an actual portfolio, its all digital so that can make sense. I don't know anything about the headphone amp on the ipad but I have a feeling the usbpre2 and/or sony d50 would exceed what is in the ipad to allow you to monitor it. What headphones do you have to monitor it live?
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #17 on: May 25, 2011, 05:20:35 PM »
I've always heard laptop tapping is a PIA so I can't imagine the ipad would be any different. 

Edit:  Here is one on ebay that only has 3 hours and is starting at $300.  Might be able to snag it for a good price

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sony-PCM-D50-4096-MB-12-5-Hours-Handheld-Digital-/120726618165?pt=Voice_Recorders&hash=item1c1bde0035
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 05:26:33 PM by jmbell »
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2011, 06:03:02 PM »
I'll go with the D50 then. The perspective of monitoring and tapping on the iPad is not for me. I will try to find it used at a good price. Though to monitor I thought to use the USBPre 2?

I have the ATH-50, but would consider to buy a new pair, that would be a perfect match for the USBPRE 2 and another one for the D50, because I think they'll need different ones. I, also thought of IEM's for the field, to better block out the ambient noise and to be less conspicuous. Any suggestions?

PS: If I find a cheap used PMD661, which also has S/PDIF Input, that should be as good instead of the D50, right?
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 06:14:51 PM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #19 on: May 26, 2011, 09:53:06 AM »
PS: If I find a cheap used PMD661, which also has S/PDIF Input, that should be as good instead of the D50, right?

yes, a Marantz PMD-661 works great to record from an S/PDIF data stream.  in fact, it might be preferable, because the RCA connection over a coax cable might be more robust and secure than the optical S/PDIF connection on the Sony PMD-D50. The battery life on the PMD-661 (when recording via S/PDIF) is at least in the 7-8 hours range, and probably more (though I never tested the S/PDIF input until the batteried completely died).  That is with 4 internal re-chargeable AA batteries.

Along with most of the folks here, I would also recommend staying away from the MTII, for reliability reasons.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2011, 12:09:56 PM »
Thank you for those clarifications about the digital connections! I understand that the D50 has optical input and the PMD661 has coaxial input. IMO S/PDIF is more robust. Also, I read the Digital Line In is only made out plastic on the Sony, the style which always brakes. But new, the PMD661 is another 150$ more.

The last few days I tried to source a used PMD661 or a D50 without success.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #21 on: May 26, 2011, 12:28:41 PM »
So over which type, I mean the full descriptive name, of digital connexion can I connect the USBPre2 to the PMD661 on the one side and the D50 on the other?

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2011, 01:22:51 PM »
So over which type, I mean the full descriptive name, of digital connexion can I connect the USBPre2 to the PMD661 on the one side and the D50 on the other?

Jon (mshilarious) was just making the point that S/PDIF is a data format, and can be carried via a coax cable (usually with an RCA connector, but sometimes with a BNC connector) or an optical cable.  but it's the same S/PDIF format either way.

The Sony PCM-D50 provides an optical S/PDIF input.
The Marantz PMD-661 provides an RCA jack for the coax S/PDIF input.

The USBPre2, conveniently, provides an S/PDIF output over both optical or coax cable.  So you'll be able to connect either deck directly to the output of the USBpre2.

I generally prefer a coax cable for S/PDIF signals, particlarly for field recording, as I think they are more durable and reliable.  but, I don't have direct experience with the PCM-D50.  If the optical S/PDIF connection is tight and secure, it probably won't make much real world difference which one you go with.  Perhaps other D50 users can speak to the optical input's reliability and durability.  That said, the PMD-661 provides an RCA jack for the S/PDIF input, and it's tight and secure.  the cable can rotate and/or shift a bit, and there's no worry about loss of signal.  and there are many right-angle RCA plugs available, which I find convenient.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2011, 01:46:50 PM »
I got it! Thank you Jason!

Form what I heard the D50's optical input doesn't look that durable, so is the corresponding cable. Would indeed be nice, if some user could give us feedback about that point. All in all, the PMD661 looks better equipped for this task as a S/PDIF recorder.

And there is also this test, where, IMHO, the PMD661 easily turns out the be the most silent for Line-In: "Portable Recorder Noise: The Sounds of Silence: http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/portable-recorder-noise.html#samples

...but it's again 150$ more.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 01:49:38 PM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2011, 02:01:15 PM »
I got it! Thank you Jason!

Form what I heard the D50's optical input doesn't look that durable, so is the corresponding cable. Would indeed be nice, if some user could give us feedback about that point. All in all, the PMD661 looks better equipped for this task as a S/PDIF recorder.

For SPDIF use, unless you're going to be beating and banging around with the usbpre2, I don't think it matters much. Now, if this will be in a bag over your shoulder and in movement while using it, I'd pick the 661, but otherwise I think it's moot.

Of the 4 possible SPDIF connections (usbpre2 optical, usbpre2 coax, 661 coax, and D50 optical) I find the most fragile or prone to disconnect with movement is the usbpre2 optical, not the other three, and a right angle toslink connector end on your optical cable plus some gaffer tape resolves my worry there. If you go that route, make sure to find an optical cable with right angles on both ends (toslink on one, standard 3.5mm optical on the other) and avoid adaptors that make a straight cable RA.
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2011, 02:18:54 PM »
Well it will be sometimes in a bag over my shoulder... I started of the thread with the idea of getting the USBPre2 connected to a used MicroTrackII. Now, I start to think that only the PMD661 will be up to the task.

BTW "Page" where does one get such wonderful angled short cables even with different ends?

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2011, 02:52:11 PM »
Well it will be sometimes in a bag over my shoulder... I started of the thread with the idea of getting the USBPre2 connected to a used MicroTrackII. Now, I start to think that only the PMD661 will be up to the task.

BTW "Page" where does one get such wonderful angled short cables even with different ends?

JVC made them for a while, they show up on ebay often, about $10 or so. I didn't really look around when I got mine.

If you're going to be using it while it's over your shoulder, I'd go for a coax connection, or gaffer tape the RA optical cable which will work for that sort of environment in my experience. if you can't find the RA optical cable, I'd move to coax before using an adaptor or a straight end one. If it will only be over your shoulder for transit only and not in use until you are stationary, then I wouldn't worry.
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2011, 03:22:30 PM »
It'll definitely get occasional use when over the shoulder and in movement. But as I do not want to spend the 600$ on the PMD661, I google to find a portable device to "record" a S/PDIF coax signal. It's hard to believe that there is not a satisfying way to do that without buying a whole audio recorder which I don't need at all. For the moment my research is fruitless though ;-)

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2011, 03:29:00 PM »
I also recommend the RCA SPDIF connection vs. the TOSLINK SPDIF...  But I ran TOSLINK (UA5 > Nomad JB3) for several years without issue in a bag.

I was concerned about movement on the optical cable, so I built a cage for my bag and secured the optical cable (inside techflex) to various points in the cage with nylon ties.  There was only a 3" dongle sticking out for my JB3.  Once plugged in, the JB4 was pretty secure.  It was fine for placing under my mic stand, or on a small table at a club.  But if I had to walk around, or carry it during a taping, I'm not sure if I'd trust the connection...

As for the RCA SPDIF input on a small recorder, yeah... there aren't many devices, and most are not cheap.  Our needs are so specific, and our market-share so small, that manufacturers don't see the benefit in selling a device like that... 

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2011, 03:39:29 PM »
When I used the D50 the optical in on the recorder was secure since it was a mini plug in.  I always thought the Toslink on the preamp side was the connect of concern. 
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2011, 03:43:51 PM »
When I used the D50 the optical in on the recorder was secure since it was a mini plug in.  I always thought the Toslink on the preamp side was the connect of concern.

bingo. thats why I picked up the RA cable. Between that and some gaffer tape, it won't move, but you almost need both for a really trustable solution.
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2011, 03:50:21 PM »
OK, so the problem, in this case, is the Toslink connection on the USBPre 2. Why isn't there a 3.5mm standard like on the Sony, if it's such a well known problem?

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2011, 04:00:05 PM »
OK, so the problem, in this case, is the Toslink connection on the USBPre 2. Why isn't there a 3.5mm standard like on the Sony, if it's such a well known problem?

it's just what they used, plus, I doubt most are going to be using the unit while moving around. Second, the depth needed for a toslink is about half whats needed for the 3.5mm jack and they've already crammed a ton of stuff in the box. I've actually seen more toslink connections then 3.5mm opticals fwiw.
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2011, 04:25:14 PM »
I don't expect the following to be an acceptable solution, but here i goes:

USBPre2> coax> converter: coax to 3.5mm optical> 3.5mm optical> D50

My guess: signal degradation because of the converter and multiple connections.

?

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2011, 04:30:04 PM »
I don't expect the following to be an acceptable solution, but here i goes:

USBPre2> coax> converter: coax to 3.5mm optical> 3.5mm optical> D50

My guess: signal degradation because of the converter and multiple connections.

?

bigger risk then just running from the pre2 > d50, and more junk to power and go wrong. Of the 2, if you like the cheaper unit and smaller profile, just get the right angle cable and some gaffer tape. If the cost isn't a concern and neither is size, grab the 661.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2011, 04:31:24 PM »
I don't expect the following to be an acceptable solution, but here i goes:

USBPre2> coax> converter: coax to 3.5mm optical> 3.5mm optical> D50

My guess: signal degradation because of the converter and multiple connections.

?

In a perfect world, there is no issue...  But you are introducing more links to the chain...

If you are trying to eliminate the use of a TOSLINK connection, most (if not all) Digital Format Convertors use the TOSLINK connections, so this solution won't help you... 

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2011, 04:40:15 PM »
I think that you just need to be careful when using a toslink!!  It's not a deal breaker, but people are trying to make you aware that this cable could disconnect.  I ran a toslink cable out of a UA5 and never had a problem.  Really any cable can disconnect and ruin a recording.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2011, 05:27:55 PM »
Thank you all for placing all this into the right perspective. It's just that it's a lot of money (and form where I am, I can't count on a thirty days money back exit plan).

But instead of spending more by replacing the MicroTrackII with a PCM-D50, I now suddenly spend less by not getting the PDM661 in place. I feel better now, I mean it ;-)

So, I'll have to look out for the right cable, probably from JVC, and get some good gaffer.

Thank you all for your help and for your patience!

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2011, 05:53:51 PM »
BTW I just saw that there were Toslink cables that said to have:

 - Pressure connection keeps fiber in perfect alignment with components.

 - spring-loaded connector to keep fiber in optical alignment for maximum data transfer.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/529387-REG/Monster_Cable_127609_600DFO_High_Performance_Toslink.html

I know they are not angled ... but can anyone confirm that they work as advertised?
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 06:07:03 PM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2011, 06:34:12 PM »
BTW I just saw that there were Toslink cables that said to have:

 - Pressure connection keeps fiber in perfect alignment with components.

 - spring-loaded connector to keep fiber in optical alignment for maximum data transfer.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/529387-REG/Monster_Cable_127609_600DFO_High_Performance_Toslink.html

I know they are not angled ... but can anyone confirm that they work as advertised?

even if they did, you expose too much of the end to stress if it was hit from the side.

I recommend you pick up one of these instead. Thats the JVC cable I mentioned.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2011, 06:37:35 PM »
« Last Edit: May 26, 2011, 06:39:06 PM by jmbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2011, 11:47:08 PM »
Thank you again, "page" and "jmbell"! I'll order two of them.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #42 on: May 27, 2011, 04:18:40 AM »
Sorry, but now I found the pmd661 for almost the same price as the pcm-D50!

Page, you gave me the advice to grab the 661 if I can handle the size. Well the size is for all practical purpose the same. But the coaxial connection will be sturdier on the 661. Also it does not use these memory sticks, but regular SDHC.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #43 on: May 27, 2011, 08:22:44 AM »
Sorry, but now I found the pmd661 for almost the same price as the pcm-D50!

If I found it for the same price, I would too.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2011, 11:39:28 AM »
OK, and for those who don't find a used one at the same price, you also have to consider that for the D50 you would want to buy some kind of XLR+P48 adapter, and most likely you will have to buy specialized Memory-sticks...

Now, I hope I can bother you one more time, for the coaxial cable between the Sound Devices USBPre 2 and the Marantz PMD661. On Ebay there is lot of things, but it seems as if I'm not able to find the right thing. What I found was this not short at all cable that I would have to use together with expensive right angle adapters, like the ones below.

Comprehensive XHD XD1 Series Digital S/PDIF RCA Male to RCA Male Audio Cable - 3'
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408229-REG/Comprehensive_XD1_RCA3_XHD_Digital_S_PDIF_RCA.html
+
Monster Cable Right-Angle RCA Adapter - Male to Female
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485194-REG/Monster_Cable_104125_Right_Angle_RCA_Adapter.html
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 11:43:34 AM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2011, 11:43:42 AM »
OK, and for those who don't find a used one at the same price, you also have to consider that for the D50 you would want to buy some kind of XLR+P48 adapter, and most likely you will have to buy specialized Memory-sticks...

Now, I hope I can bother you one more time, for the coaxial cable between the Sound Devices USBPre 2 and the Marantz PMD661. On Ebay there is lot of things, but it seems as I'm not able to find the right thing. What I found was this not short at all cable that I would have to use together with expensive right angle adapters, like the ones below.

Comprehensive XHD XD1 Series Digital S/PDIF RCA Male to RCA Male Audio Cable - 3'
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/408229-REG/Comprehensive_XD1_RCA3_XHD_Digital_S_PDIF_RCA.html
+
Monster Cable Right-Angle RCA Adapter - Male to Female
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/485194-REG/Monster_Cable_104125_Right_Angle_RCA_Adapter.html


There are several people on this board that can make a cable for you that will be of higher value than anything you can buy.

I just bought an AES > RCA cable last week from Ted:  http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=19317

Terry
***Do you have PHISH, VIDA BLUE, JAZZ MANDOLIN PROJECT or any other Phish related DATs/Tapes/MDs that need to be transferred???  I can do them for you!!!***

I will return your DATs/Tapes/MDs.  I'll also provide Master FLAC files via DropBox.  PM me for details.

Sony PCM R500 > SPDIF > Tascam HD-P2
Nakamichi DR-3 > (Oade Advanced Concert Mod) Tascam HD-P2
Sony MDS-JE510 > Hosa ODL-276 > Tascam HD-P2

******

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #46 on: May 27, 2011, 12:04:45 PM »
right, I would order a custom S/PDIF cable from someone here on taperssection (Ted makes great cables, as do a few other folks.  Here is a link to Ted's post about his cables: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0).

The benefits of getting a custom cable made are:
1.  You can specify the exact length you want.
2.  You can specify right-angle RCA plugs, if you like.  I would stear clear of adaptors, as that is one more piece of the chain, and one more thing that could potentially go wrong.  The switchcraft right-angle RCA's are fantastci.
3.  You know that the cable is being put together by hand and that care is being made to make sure all the soldered connections are done well.  Not some machine doing the soldering in bulk.  So you'll know the cable will be reliable for many years to come.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #47 on: May 27, 2011, 07:02:48 PM »
I use the apogee minime and micro track II and have never had a failure with spdif at many weddings, events, corporate or otherwise. The reason I went with it was for the very reason it had RCA spdif over any other budget recorder, I figured the minime clock, converters and pres would compensate for any mtii deficiencies, and I was correct.  Granted my setup is stationary and I power both the minime and mtii at all times. Though once I did forget the power supply and it ran on battery for several hours reliably. So while I tend to agree the mtii has serious doubts as a standalone, it has proven to be very reliable for me in my specific setup. I was actually thinking of selling my minime to get a usbpre2 and using it with the mtii. I also have an sd 302 mixer that I combined with a zaxcom zfr100 with sta100 stereo line level adapter and I have gotten excellent results...though I should, given that its about a $2800 setup. The next step is to get an sd702.

So at least one person here can say the mtii has been okay, as long as you know it's physical limitations.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #48 on: May 27, 2011, 08:40:53 PM »
So at least one person here can say the mtii has been okay, as long as you know it's physical limitations.

Jesse Hurlburt really liked it, but he wrote down stellar instructions on how to guarantee a recording and no lockups. It was 5 or 6 steps IIRC. My luck, I'd goof up somewhere and nuke the recording, but there are people who like them for the price.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #49 on: May 28, 2011, 04:19:43 PM »
Thank you! I just sent a PM to Ted for the right angled coax cable.

I'll also get a 5v external power pack cable from him for the PMD661.  The Tekkeon Battery looks good, but I found a 16000 mAh Battery from ISOUND for half the price and in a slightly smaller package ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/766258-REG/ISOUND_DGIPAD_4544_Portable_Power_Max_16000.html ). That way I can power both, the USBPre2 and the PMD611, from this one 16000mAz power pack.

On the MicroTrack, after doing more of the suggested reading here on the board, I too don't want to risk unrepeatable important recordings. I guess its doable, though.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 05:44:38 PM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #50 on: May 28, 2011, 06:01:04 PM »
For what its worth, the Tekkeon can power the usbpre2 and should be able to power the PMD661 simultaneously.
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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #51 on: May 28, 2011, 06:49:58 PM »
You are right, but for example at B&H

 - the Tekkeon mp3450 (10.000 mAh / 50 Wh / 433.7g, 15.3oz) sells for 120$,
 - the Tekkeon mp3450i (11.600 mAh / 58 Wh / 450.7g, 15.9oz) for 140$ and
 - the Isound Portable Power Max (16.000 mAh / 60 Wh / 400g, 14.1oz) for 77$

You think that the Isound will not be capable of powering simultaneously the USBPre 2 and the PMD661 through 5V USB (for the Marantz with the custom cable from Ted)?


[EDIT to be more precise, I added the Wh and g/oz (see above)}

« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 07:25:21 PM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #52 on: May 28, 2011, 10:44:09 PM »
- the Isound Portable Power Max (16.000 mAh / 60 Wh / 400g, 14.1oz) for 77$

You think that the Isound will not be capable of powering simultaneously the USBPre 2 and the PMD661 through 5V USB (for the Marantz with the custom cable from Ted)?


[EDIT to be more precise, I added the Wh and g/oz (see above)}

while the 661 draws 5v, it needs more then 1amp. I thought about that a while ago.

Sean's right; the tekkeon MP series will work if you use the main port for the 661 and the usb port for the usbpre2.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #53 on: May 29, 2011, 02:09:04 AM »
- the Isound Portable Power Max (16.000 mAh / 60 Wh / 400g, 14.1oz) for 77$

You think that the Isound will not be capable of powering simultaneously the USBPre 2 and the PMD661 through 5V USB (for the Marantz with the custom cable from Ted)?


[EDIT to be more precise, I added the Wh and g/oz (see above)}

while the 661 draws 5v, it needs more then 1amp. I thought about that a while ago.

Sean's right; the tekkeon MP series will work if you use the main port for the 661 and the usb port for the usbpre2.

You and  Sean right, the Isound gives 2.4 A and the Tekkeons up to 4 A. Thank you for clarifying that.

nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #54 on: May 29, 2011, 02:20:37 AM »
while the 661 draws 5v, it needs more then 1amp. I thought about that a while ago.

Sean's right; the tekkeon MP series will work if you use the main port for the 661 and the usb port for the usbpre2.

You and  Sean right, the Isound gives 2.4 A and the Tekkeons up to 4 A. Thank you for clarifying that.

nino

true, but IIRC you're only getting 1a max out of each usb port (that's the spec for usb power) which is too little for the 661 which needs something like 1.6a.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #55 on: May 29, 2011, 03:12:44 AM »
I'm confused, because I got this from Ted's page ( http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0 ):
Quote
5v USB External Battery Cables for Marantz PMD661, Iriver H120 & R09HR Recorders made to your desired length, straight or r/a (depending on availability) on the recorder and can be used with any external 5v USB power pack like this http://www.lenmar.com/Web/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=PPU2100B&Model=iPhone&OEM=Apple&CatID=9 More then happy to build these for any other 5v powered equipment.  I just need to know the coaxial plug size and polarity requirements.

?

PS: Ted sells things which work fine for him, he tells me. He seems to power his 661 from the USB out of a Tekkeon.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 05:12:50 AM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #56 on: May 29, 2011, 08:39:00 AM »
I'm confused, because I got this from Ted's page ( http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=133186.0 ):
Quote
5v USB External Battery Cables for Marantz PMD661, Iriver H120 & R09HR Recorders made to your desired length, straight or r/a (depending on availability) on the recorder and can be used with any external 5v USB power pack like this http://www.lenmar.com/Web/ProductDetails.aspx?ProductID=PPU2100B&Model=iPhone&OEM=Apple&CatID=9 More then happy to build these for any other 5v powered equipment.  I just need to know the coaxial plug size and polarity requirements.

?

PS: Ted sells things which work fine for him, he tells me. He seems to power his 661 from the USB out of a Tekkeon.

It may be possible, but the AC Adaptor feeds it 1.5a per the specs for the adaptor listed in the 661's user manual (pg 64). It may not need all 1.5a most of the time, or it could be that Marantz just re-used an adaptor that provided extra from an earlier machine (the 620), I don't know, but I wouldn't want to be in the field and find out. At least not when the alternative was just an additional $50 for a battery I know would work.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #57 on: May 29, 2011, 07:46:21 PM »
The PMD-661 does not use more than 1A, and certainly not 1.5 A.  just because the AC adapter can supply 1.5A, that doesn't mean that the PMD-661 is pulling that much.  The manual says the PMD-661 uses 4.2 W (again, pg 64).  Watts = Volts x Amps.  at 5V, the PMD-661 is pulling 0.84 A (or 840 mA).  and my guess is that that is the most it would be using (internal pre-amps, phantom power on, etc, etc).  With the S/PDIF input, the deck is probably using a lot less than that.

I don't know how much power the USBPre2.  but a tekkeon mp3450 powering the PMD-661 alone, I got 15+ hours of run time when using the S/PDIF input.  that's why I sold the tekkeon, because I didn't need that much run time.  now I just use the four internal AA's.

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #58 on: May 29, 2011, 09:30:41 PM »
The PMD-661 does not use more than 1A, and certainly not 1.5 A.  just because the AC adapter can supply 1.5A, that doesn't mean that the PMD-661 is pulling that much.  The manual says the PMD-661 uses 4.2 W (again, pg 64).  Watts = Volts x Amps.  at 5V, the PMD-661 is pulling 0.84 A (or 840 mA).  and my guess is that that is the most it would be using (internal pre-amps, phantom power on, etc, etc).  With the S/PDIF input, the deck is probably using a lot less than that.

Thanks for the correction, I screwed up my math when I saw the watt rating.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #59 on: May 30, 2011, 12:16:29 AM »
If I understand, that means that both, the PMD661 and the USBPre 2, may be powered via USB, right?

That brings back the ISOUND power back option, a bit cheaper, a bit lighter and even more capacity (even though most likely not necessary). Why should I spend more?

PS: ISOUND  2.4 A
 8.000 mAh = 45 U$D
16.000 mAh = 77 U$D

Even, 8.000 mAh might be enough.

« Last Edit: May 30, 2011, 12:22:41 AM by nino »

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #60 on: May 31, 2011, 06:00:38 PM »
It depends how much current is coming out of the USB port on the ISOUND. I think the standard is 0.5 A, but some batteries put out more. I have some USB batteries that can power it, and some that can't. I can vouch for the Tekkeon MP3450. The USB port could power the 661 (although I never tried it with the phantom on).

I have an Oade SuperMod PMD-661 that is sort of for sale:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=143903.msg1854301

If you're interested, PM me


If I understand, that means that both, the PMD661 and the USBPre 2, may be powered via USB, right?

That brings back the ISOUND power back option, a bit cheaper, a bit lighter and even more capacity (even though most likely not necessary). Why should I spend more?

PS: ISOUND  2.4 A
 8.000 mAh = 45 U$D
16.000 mAh = 77 U$D

Even, 8.000 mAh might be enough.
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline nino

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2011, 09:48:09 PM »
As discussed above, the documentation mentions 2.4 A for ISOUND, which should be enough for both, the 661 drawing 0.84 A + the USCBPre2 with a maximum 1 A (limit of USB, which is what it is designed for) = 1.84 A total.

Quote
PS: ISOUND  2.4 A
 8.000 mAh = 45 U$D
16.000 mAh = 77 U$D


Offline rastasean

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #62 on: May 31, 2011, 10:44:49 PM »
Let us know when the battery comes in. Personally it looks like something that would charge iphones, itouch, ipod, ipads but should work nice for the pmd661.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline mikycoud

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2011, 12:44:33 PM »
Hi,
Did you ever try that iSound USB battery for your PMD661 and did it work Ok?
I'm thinking of getting it to power my USBPre2/PMD661 combo but, just like you, am wondering about the 1.5A the PMD661 supposedly needs vs the 1A max the Isound can deliver.
Any feedback?
Thanx

kirk97132

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2011, 03:23:31 PM »
As discussed above, the documentation mentions 2.4 A for ISOUND, which should be enough for both, the 661 drawing 0.84 A + the USCBPre2 with a maximum 1 A (limit of USB, which is what it is designed for) = 1.84 A total.

Quote
PS: ISOUND  2.4 A
 8.000 mAh = 45 U$D
16.000 mAh = 77 U$D

USB max is 500mAh.  USBPre2 uses less than that. I have specs from SD somewhere but total draw would be dependent on mics used with the USBPre2 but absolute max draw from the USBPre2 is 500 mAh. 

Specs from SD:
With two condensers on the inputs, gains at a healthy level and headphones with headphone gain at a normal level, you can expect between 175mA and 275mA draw(approximately).
« Last Edit: July 12, 2011, 03:27:47 PM by kirkd »

Offline mikycoud

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #65 on: July 13, 2011, 03:21:19 AM »
Thanx Kirkd for your reply.
I was more worried about how the power was shared across both outputs. Indeed, I've tried devices in the past that were rated adequately for my intended purpose, and worked OK when one device was connected, but with very unpredictable results when 2 devices were hooked up together. Hence why I was asking for 'real' tests to Nino.

But it's OK now, as I've found a picture of the bottom plate of the iSound which shows all the info I wanted:
2.1A on each output
2.5 together

SO I'm confident it'll run both my devices perfectly!

On a different topic (but still related to the PMD661), do you have experience feeding to its SPDIF input a standard AES3 signal via the appropriate converter cable?
Some say it'll work, some say it's doubtful, but no one seems to have ever tried it...
My idea was to go Mixpre D AES3 out>XLR to RCA cable (very short lenght)>PMD661 SPDIF input

(I've posted this in another sub forum on this site, but since this thread seems to be all about the PMD661 at this point, I figured you might be able to answer my question...)

Thanx for any input

kirk97132

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Re: USBPre 2 > SPDIF > MicroTrackII for the field ?
« Reply #66 on: July 13, 2011, 11:13:39 AM »
Can't help with your AES/SPDIF.  Never ran a Marantz unit.  FWIW the Tascam DR-680 I have will accept both is built to do so.  I believe there is a Rane site/article that may help with that info.  Sorry I don't have a link

 

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