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Author Topic: Why the V2>MME Combo???  (Read 3916 times)

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Offline makers marc

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Re:Why the V2>MME Combo???
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2004, 11:02:31 AM »
I think it might be that running v3 really does preserve what the mics hear...problem being that depending on the mic, that's not all that pleasing to the ear. most definitely there is some coloration introduced when running v2>mme, you get that mme pre light in the mix. to me, the 1k pre was a little thin sounding, and running v2>1k, you got a little of that, but running v2>mme, you get a little fat/warmth. Just a theory. I like schoeps>v3 and 140>v3 just fine, no extra color needed. DPA or AKG,,,,different story. Not that the tapes are bad, but not even a little warmth.
I think the stars are just the neon lights
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Of heaven on a Saturday night.

Offline dmonterisi

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Re:Why the V2>MME Combo???
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2004, 11:16:09 AM »
in the comps i've heard, v2>mme and v3>mme blow just v3 out of the water.  i mean it's not even close.

That's b/c the V3's ADC/dither sucks.  ::)  I love inflammatory posts like this...so entertaining!  :P

Care to elaborate on:
  • the stark and/or subtle differences you hear between the comp variations
  • details of each comp - gear used, location, config, etc.
  • what sonic characteristics you prefer / dislike in each of the different comp variations
  • your playback system
Not trying to razz you, Damon, just trying to inject some more useful dialogue into the discussion beyond "X blows Y away".

razz all you want brian...my point was more to say that from the comps i've heard there was a very big difference between the sources such that it led me to believe that there was more at work than just dither.  the comps that i've heard were from craig davis at the 930 club taping galactic, 4022's>v3/v3>mme.  don't remember the details of it or exactly what my thoughts on the comp are.  i found that the v3>mme was fuller, more detailed and more balanced.  i still liked the v3 recordings, hell i still run just a v3.  i believe there is a substantial difference but to me, it doesn't warrant another 1100 worth of gear and more batteries to carry, i got enough shit in my bag.

Offline nic

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Re:Why the V2>MME Combo???
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2004, 11:50:54 AM »
"ergonomically challenged boxes"

what exactly about the Apogee boxes is so "ergonomically challenging"?
is it the depth? the size?
yes, the Apogee is bigger(by less than 2 cubic inches)

what is so bad about these boxes(other than you dont like the pre or ad section)?
« Last Edit: March 02, 2004, 11:56:24 AM by luvean »


the water's clean and innocent

Offline dmonterisi

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Re:Why the V2>MME Combo???
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2004, 11:58:52 AM »
when i had the mme, in addition to disliking the pre (i was not running an outboard pre), the odd length created weird issues in running it vertically.  it did not fit well in my portable bag (mountainsmith cairn).   the knobs are not recessed and can easily be jolted.  the metering blows.  the xlr's connectors do not lock.  the power connector is fragile.

Offline Todd R

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Re:Why the V2>MME Combo???
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2004, 12:37:23 PM »
i've never heard that the v3 and mme are the same AD just different dither circuits.  i don't think that to be the case.  i think they sound far too different for it just to be dither.  

The MMe and the V3 use either the same instrumentation amp on the analog side, or at least a very similar Burr-Brown instrumentation amp.  I forget which, either way, they implement a very similar current feedback topology.  The V3 and the MMe may use the same A/D chip as well, I hadn't heard, but wouldn't find it surprising as there aren't that many candidates to choose from.

But even if the V3 and the MMe use the same op amp on the analog side and the same A/D chip, this is a far, far cry from saying the only difference is their dither implementation.  Check around on audiophile sites, you'll find there is good money to be made modifying off-the-shelf audio components.  The implementation of a design goes far beyond the main components like the op amp and the A/D converter chip.  Exactly how the signal is routed through these components and what other components the signal goes through will influence the sound.  One design could de-couple the signal from the phantom supply with capacitors, and another with transformers and this will make a huge difference in sound.  As it turns out, both the MMe and V3 use capacitor decoupling, but they well could be using different capacitors which will influence the signal.  Any differences in any of the components in the signal path can influence the sound.  The design and implementation of the power supply and on-board power regulation will influence the sound.  The design and implementation of the phantom powering will influence the sound.  Hell, even the layout of the components on the board and the layout of the power and ground planes on the board will influence the sound.

Give me a couple weeks or so, and I could probably design an implement a working pre + A/D converter that uses the same Burr Brown instumentation amp and the same A/D converter chip.  And I could guarantee you it would sound like utter, complete crap.   :P

The V3 and MMe are two completely different beasts, whether or not they share a couple of key components.

My  :twocents:

-Todd
Mics: Microtech Gefell m20/m21 (nbob/pfa actives), Line Audio CM3, Church CA-11 cards
Preamp:  none <sniff>
Recorders:  Sound Devices MixPre-6, Sony PCM-M10, Zoom H4nPro

Jason B

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Re:Why the V2>MME Combo???
« Reply #20 on: March 02, 2004, 04:56:23 PM »
I have run two U89i > V3/V3 > MMe comparisons in the last week and to me, the V3 > MMe tapes are incredibly smoother, more detailed and overall more musical. The straight V3 tapes sound more sterile, harsh and clinical sounding. I can see, however, the advantages of running the V3 alone in certain situations with the U89's. The straight V3 tapes are not bad sounding in the slightest bit, It's just the MMe smooths the sound out and, to me, makes the recording sound more dynamic and musical.

 

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