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Author Topic: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?  (Read 5767 times)

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Offline acidjack

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Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« on: June 26, 2011, 02:52:06 PM »
I know this is really a question for Jon, but I thought I would see first if anyone is actually using this setup.  I've been wanting a lowpro setup for my Schoeps for awhile but haven't pulled the trigger on any of the existing solutions (KC5s, NBox, CMR) for a variety of reasons, the main one being each has something about it that I don't particularly like. 

I believe I saw a thread here that indicated that a littlebox and/or the forthcoming 48V tinybox could properly power some mk capsules via the KCY cable.  This would solve for everything I'm looking for, including:

- no bodies
- no 9V batts to carry
- full 48
- smallest size (smaller than CMR for the mics, and smaller than the Schoeps VMS boxes for the pre)

If this hasn't been done before, I'd assume Jon would need either the cables or the schematic for them; I don't own them, and I don't see a schematic here: http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/kcy/overview  I'd be happy to buy the cables first and send them out, but again, if someone else has already implemented this, I'd be curious to hear how it's going. 
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #1 on: June 26, 2011, 03:36:07 PM »
The way I understand it is no this won't work with the current version.  As the current version does not provide 6.1V for FET voltage as required by the KCY nor does it provide a full 48V yet (I may be not up to date on this).

Jon is working on a newer version that may have this capability (Tinybox 2.0) - i.e. he is looking to add Binder 711 to  and provide a FET and high capsule voltage (+48V or so).

Ideally for schoeps you would want +60V but +48V works you just loose some sensitivity.



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Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2011, 03:40:53 PM »
I could probably build a box to meet your specs but without a pre-amp - run off 4 AA's - but it would be 3-4 months - I may be able to add a preamp as well - unbalanced out - I have a few designs in mind but haven't built one yet.

I was thinking of moding my tube ps design to run a Schoeps CMMT active setup - but I haven't gotten around to it yet - It would use 5.6V / +120V.

I am planning on building this in the Fall to Winter may start with a KCY version first.
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Offline johnw

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2011, 04:05:08 PM »
Both the littlebox>KCY setup and AA box>KCY setup sound like good ideas.

Any chance of an external powering solution for the Nbox?
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2011, 11:19:36 AM »
tinybox v1.5 has the capability to supply +45V to the capsule and +8V to the FET, and can have a Binder in place of the usual mini-XLR input.  So it should directly support a KCY, although this has not yet been tested.  I am planning on doing a mini-XLR-->Binder adaptor for the loaner tinybox that will circulate to test all available active setups.

littlebox v1.5 is due very soon and can provide the same support, except it will be able to do any voltage up to +130V, and can run the active setup switchable with the standard P48 XLR inputs.

I can send you my KCY and capsules to test if you like

Offline NOLAfishwater

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #5 on: June 27, 2011, 06:00:21 PM »
I'd rather send around the tinybox; saves quite a lot on postal insurance.  Also, it's going out to other brand owners to test actives.

put me on the list  >:D

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2011, 06:02:05 PM »
I'd rather send around the tinybox; saves quite a lot on postal insurance.  Also, it's going out to other brand owners to test actives.

put me on the list  >:D

can I also be put on the list??....  thanks.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2011, 10:04:54 PM »
meh.. how bout I just order a 60v/16v tinybox. It will work :)

When you getting in those pcbs for a 45v/16v pfa?

Offline zeus163

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2011, 02:30:24 AM »
I could probably build a box to meet your specs but without a pre-amp - run off 4 AA's - but it would be 3-4 months - I may be able to add a preamp as well - unbalanced out - I have a few designs in mind but haven't built one yet.

I was thinking of moding my tube ps design to run a Schoeps CMMT active setup - but I haven't gotten around to it yet - It would use 5.6V / +120V.

I am planning on building this in the Fall to Winter may start with a KCY version first.

Could the AA box without Pre, but built to accomodate the nbox cabling? Just looking for smaller options for running the Schoeps.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2011, 11:13:56 AM »
I could probably build a box to meet your specs but without a pre-amp - run off 4 AA's - but it would be 3-4 months - I may be able to add a preamp as well - unbalanced out - I have a few designs in mind but haven't built one yet.

I was thinking of moding my tube ps design to run a Schoeps CMMT active setup - but I haven't gotten around to it yet - It would use 5.6V / +120V.

I am planning on building this in the Fall to Winter may start with a KCY version first.

Could the AA box without Pre, but built to accomodate the nbox cabling? Just looking for smaller options for running the Schoeps.

I am sure I could but I would need an nbox to get the FET Voltage from.
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2011, 01:01:03 PM »
I could probably build a box to meet your specs but without a pre-amp - run off 4 AA's - but it would be 3-4 months - I may be able to add a preamp as well - unbalanced out - I have a few designs in mind but haven't built one yet.

I was thinking of moding my tube ps design to run a Schoeps CMMT active setup - but I haven't gotten around to it yet - It would use 5.6V / +120V.

I am planning on building this in the Fall to Winter may start with a KCY version first.

Could the AA box without Pre, but built to accomodate the nbox cabling? Just looking for smaller options for running the Schoeps.

I am sure I could but I would need an nbox to get the FET Voltage from.

It's 18v as measured on the output pins of the nbox. I believe, but not certain, that the operating range is something like 14-20v.

What I need to know is what's the voltage operating range for stock KCY cables (especially vMax). I believe there is definitely a difference in the FET used and that it probably uses a much lower voltage.

Offline zeus163

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2011, 02:00:45 PM »
What if I sent my nbox? I'd pay for insurance both ways on it. I just need to find a break in my schedule that would allow for this as I plan on actually getting out and doing some taping in the next three weeks after a fairly inactive summer time.
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2011, 02:09:47 PM »
What if I sent my nbox? I'd pay for insurance both ways on it. I just need to find a break in my schedule that would allow for this as I plan on actually getting out and doing some taping in the next three weeks after a fairly inactive summer time.

No need.. it's 18v

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2011, 04:08:03 PM »
The KCY is specified at +6V for the FET and +58V for the capsule.


+6v is vMax?

Knowing this, does it make sense that the reutelhuber style cables use +18v for the FET?

Offline tedyun

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #14 on: July 20, 2011, 04:34:59 PM »
The electronics in the nbox are not compatible with the KCY cable. I asked Nick if I could get an nbox where I could attach/detach the KCY, and he said I couldn't. Furthermore, he would have had to irreversibly modify the electronics in a KCY in order to attach it to the nbox. Maybe that accounts for the 6 V vs 18 V?

The KCY is specified at +6V for the FET and +58V for the capsule.


+6v is vMax?

Knowing this, does it make sense that the reutelhuber style cables use +18v for the FET?
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #15 on: July 20, 2011, 07:55:24 PM »
Im psyched to get a KCY input on my LB. MK41>KCY>LB[w/ out transformers] will SMOKE ;D
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 08:37:33 PM »
Kinda oppositely random...............   but could a KCY "5pin binder plug" be put on an Nbox cable?
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline tedyun

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2011, 10:44:49 PM »
From what I understand, even if you put the Binder plug on the Nbox cable, it won't be compatible with a KCY input and it won't be able to plug into the Nbox (unless you put the reciprocal Binder jack on it).

Nick said that he alters the electronics of the KCY cable so it will only function with the Nbox.

Kinda oppositely random...............   but could a KCY "5pin binder plug" be put on an Nbox cable?
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 11:13:31 PM by tedyun »
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 10:48:57 PM »
I would think it is possible to that the nbox only has a single power lead instead of 2 with the Schoeps solution designed 40+ years ago.   So maybe nbox is just +18, audio, gnd?
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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 10:52:50 PM »
From what I understand, even if you put the Binder plug on the Nbox, it won't be compatible with a KCY input and it won't be able to plug into the Nbox (unless you put the reciprocal Binder jack on it).

Nick said that he alters the electronics of the KCY cable so it will only function with the Nbox.

Kinda oppositely random...............   but could a KCY "5pin binder plug" be put on an Nbox cable?

I'm talkin about the Nbox cable terminating into a KCY binder.....  so that the Nbox cable could be used with other preamps.
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #20 on: July 21, 2011, 12:45:56 AM »
Just another reason why I bought a brand new KCY over the NBox route, plus the NBox uses 9v batts, and altho the lemosax does as well, I can use external power on my lemosax :)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Schoeps KCY>littlebox?
« Reply #21 on: July 21, 2011, 01:27:57 AM »
Cable termination is mostly irrelevant because you can make an adapter cable with a Switchcraft EN3 connector to virtually any other type of connector possible.

What matters is the electronics of the preamp/power source and the supply voltages sent to both the MK capsule for polarization and the FET electronics inside the MK connector on the cables. Simply changing the EN3 connector to a Binder 711 wouldn't make it compatible with any other preamp. You could try it with a lemosax/vms5u/etc., but I doubt the FET voltage will be high enough since they're all meant to work with the +6v KCY cables.

Swapping the connector would only be useful if you intended your primary preamp to be a tinybox/littlebox or PFA configured with 60v/16v supply rails (45v/16v for the PFA), I believe. You could still use the nbox with an adapter cable when needed, but you'd have the convenience of being able to run directly into whatever box you were using.

This is all assuming a lot, but the more I think about it the more I'm convinced this setup will work.

I'm talkin about the Nbox cable terminating into a KCY binder.....  so that the Nbox cable could be used with other preamps.

 

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