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Poll

Which track do you prefer?

Track 1
2 (16.7%)
Track 2
0 (0%)
Track 3
8 (66.7%)
They all sound the same to me!
1 (8.3%)
Two of the tracks sound identical. You probably duplicated the track!
1 (8.3%)

Total Members Voted: 12

Author Topic: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1  (Read 7797 times)

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Offline tedyun

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ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« on: August 04, 2011, 12:21:11 AM »
Greensky Bluegrass
The Belly Up Tavern
Solana Beach, CA
2011-08-01

Mics: B&K 4011
Preamp: EAA PSP-2
ADC1: PSP2 +28 dB gain (Balanced out) > Lunatec V3 (-20 dB pad on) +28 dB gain (SPDIF out) > MT II
ADC2: PSP2 +28 dB gain (Balanced out) > Lunatec V3 (-20 dB pad on) +28 dB gain (Analog out) > Mytek 192 ADC (SPDIF out) > PMD-661
ADC3: PSP2 +28 dB gain (Unbalanced out) > Korg MR-1 -10 dB gain

Notes: Levels adjusted in WaveLab 6 to match average RMS. Thanks to it-goes-to-eleven/Freelunch/tranny-goo for advice!

(The track numbering may or may not correspond to the ADC numbering above)
Track 1: http://www.4shared.com/file/erDgh8p3/Track_1.html
Track 2: http://www.4shared.com/file/cTTHvWM6/Track_2.html
Track 3: http://www.4shared.com/file/tsgUK6zE/Track_3.html

Self extracting file of all three: http://www.4shared.com/file/0tajKKq-/ADC_comp_2011-08-03.html

If you vote for option 4 or 5, can you list your playback device(s)?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2011, 12:22:42 AM by tedyun »
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline bhadella

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2011, 07:21:06 AM »
I prefer 3 overall.   Nice balance and deep, well defined bass.  To my ears I enjoy both 1 and 3 are oretty darn similiar except the thin bass on 1.  2 sounds flat relative to the others, no punch in the bass nor singing highs. 

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2011, 10:25:48 AM »
Thanks for the comp!
MY SPOILERS









My playback is currently limited - I'm on headphones.
I much prefer 1 & 3.  2 is flat, and the highs are seriously lacking.  The soundstage is ill defined and kinda mushy.

1 & 3 are much closer.  I find 3 sounds a bit more open and airy.  The soundstage seems less "smeared".

We really haven't had many (any?) mr1 comps, so this is new territory.  And we really haven't had any double pre-amp comps like this, so also new territory. And we haven't had any psp2 bal vs. unbal comps, again an unknown factor.

This was an interesting comp, but I think it's going to be hard to draw conclusions.  Though the mytek vs. v3 a/d aspect seems like a valid reference point.  We've seen on a few comps that the analog out of the v3 is often preferred in comps over the internal a/d - even using the r09 as the destination!  I'm still shocked by those outcomes years later.. I might not believe them if they weren't my comps.

And what's with the PA recording?  I thought you were having Greensky play in your backyard? That is by far the best way to see them :P

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Offline tedyun

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2011, 03:38:08 PM »
At the Belly Up, it's basically a square, with the stage at the top. Management will only let us setup on the sides of the square, and one side has a series of vents that is pumping air conditioning during the summer. So there really is only one side you can tape in the summer. I've had problems when I point the mics at the band from the side. The recording comes out lopsided. I can center it in post, but it still comes out weird. Last time I taped there, I ran with easyjim and Charlie Miller. They basically said that to get any decent recording from that area, you have to point it at the PA.

Last time it turned out well, but the soundstage was limited because I was pointing it at the right stack. This time, I tried to aim my mics at the left and right stacks to get a better image but I guess it didn't work out so well. Maybe next time I should aim them just outside of the stacks?

I think Jake, GSBG's FOH engineer (who is also a taper) said that he was having problems with the sound. He kept running from the soundboard to the floor to check it. Also, apparently Dave blew his hearing, so he was singing too close and too loudly into the mic because he couldn't hear himself very well.

I thought the recording turned out ok though...


And what's with the PA recording?  I thought you were having Greensky play in your backyard? That is by far the best way to see them :P
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2011, 05:48:54 PM »
Thanks for putting this up.
3 easily wins for me, 1 is second, 2 a distant third.

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Offline scb

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2011, 11:09:00 PM »
isn't the v3 pre always on?  so isn't that 2 preamps?

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2011, 12:44:28 AM »
I'll echo what others have said. 2 is flat above about 2khz and up, no great articulation of detail, that one was easy. 1 and 3 are a tough race though. I'm tired, been in loud environments, but I swear I can make out the off axis detail better in 1 (e.g. between seconds 5 and 10 there is a guy that shouts toward the left). Other times I think I get better micro detail in 3 (see the voices and then the scream around 2:02). I'd be happy with either of those at the moment. Might change my mind after a good nights rest, who knows.

Gear: usbpre2 (dac) > fiio e9 head amp > denon 7000s (markl modded). (tried the headamp section on the usbpre2 as well)

I'll take a guess and say the korg is #2 and the V3 is #1.
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Offline bhadella

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2011, 10:42:58 PM »
How about some results?   ;)
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Offline tedyun

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2011, 11:01:47 PM »
Track 1: Mytek
Track 2: MR-1
Track 3: V3

Frankly, I'm stunned.

With the MR-1, the unbalanced out may have made a difference. I taped last night, and this time I calibrated my Mytek to try to match the output of the V3. I ran PSP-2 > (split) V3 > Mytek. The other signal went through -18 dB attenuators to the MR-1. This time it sounded more similar than this comp.

I'm scratching my head as to how the V3 came out on top of the Mytek. As hard as I tried, I couldn't tell the difference when I A/B'd the two. I had to triple check that I didn't duplicate the files. However, one person (who didn't vote) wrote a detailed critique of the sources, and concluded that 1 was the best, followed by 2, and 3 was a distant third. In fact he referred to 3 as a mess, I believe.

Well, that doesn't make me feel good about dropping almost a G on the Mytek  >:(  !

At least my gear bag is quite a sight. With the V3, Mytek, PSP-2, 661, MTII, MR-1, the sheer size, the pumping meters and flashing lights gets me a lot of strange looks. That's gotta be worth a couple of G's at least, right?  ;D


Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 01:15:03 AM »
Track 1: Mytek
Track 2: MR-1
Track 3: V3

Frankly, I'm stunned.

I'm scratching my head as to how the V3 came out on top of the Mytek. As hard as I tried, I couldn't tell the difference when I A/B'd the two. I had to triple check that I didn't duplicate the files. However, one person (who didn't vote) wrote a detailed critique of the sources, and concluded that 1 was the best, followed by 2, and 3 was a distant third. In fact he referred to 3 as a mess, I believe.

Well, in some ways, I'm surprised the V3 and Mytek don't stand further apart. I'd heard that the Mytek was mildly brittle or harsh in the top end, but I've also heard (the later at any rate) about the V3 so maybe I should have expected a close competition. I remember hearing the V3 ACM vs a 744 and being able to pick out differences (bass region was the most noticeable on occasion), or the D50 vs a 722 and again being able to pick out which was which (again, bass region detail), but this one I got to the point where I couldn't find a good reference point where I could pick out concrete differences and attributed what I thought to placebo.

Thats one thing I've tried to get really good about, if I am on the fence, I try and fall on the placebo side. It's better for my wallet, well, until I get upgrade-itus on the playback end.

Maybe do a comp where you don't use the psp2, just the V3 as gain. In every comp I've heard that uses a psp2, you get transformer smear on transients and detail. It adds a nice harmonic goo, but for detailed comps of ADCs, it doesn't help (in my opinion). Go for a round 2 and see if you/we still prefer it. If you still have trouble ABXing it, then there is always ebay (or the yard sale)....
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline tedyun

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2011, 02:37:58 AM »
I think it's probably my playback system, or maybe I'll never have "golden ears." I'm using the Headamp Pico and UE Triple.fi 10's. I use foobar, and the ABX plugin (http://www.foobar2000.org/components/view/foo_abx) to blind test. The person who picked out the differences was using a pretty high end headphone amp and headphones. I wouldn't be surprised if he could hear me blinking my eyes with his setup.

I was also surprised at how little difference there was between the V3 and Mytek.

I don't think I'll ever sell any part of my rig now. My wife let me put together my dream rig, as long as I don't ask to buy anything else at this point. I just hope my ears will just grow into this rig as I get better at taping and listening.

I will try the other comp. but I'm not sure when. Tomorrow I'm planning on taping Matisyahu in Anaheim, so I'm going to travel light (PSP2 > Mytek) because I'm also shooting video. That'll be my 4th concert in about a month, so my wife is putting her foot down  ;D

When I get a chance to do that, I'll post another shootout!


Track 1: Mytek
Track 2: MR-1
Track 3: V3

Frankly, I'm stunned.

I'm scratching my head as to how the V3 came out on top of the Mytek. As hard as I tried, I couldn't tell the difference when I A/B'd the two. I had to triple check that I didn't duplicate the files. However, one person (who didn't vote) wrote a detailed critique of the sources, and concluded that 1 was the best, followed by 2, and 3 was a distant third. In fact he referred to 3 as a mess, I believe.

Well, in some ways, I'm surprised the V3 and Mytek don't stand further apart. I'd heard that the Mytek was mildly brittle or harsh in the top end, but I've also heard (the later at any rate) about the V3 so maybe I should have expected a close competition. I remember hearing the V3 ACM vs a 744 and being able to pick out differences (bass region was the most noticeable on occasion), or the D50 vs a 722 and again being able to pick out which was which (again, bass region detail), but this one I got to the point where I couldn't find a good reference point where I could pick out concrete differences and attributed what I thought to placebo.

Thats one thing I've tried to get really good about, if I am on the fence, I try and fall on the placebo side. It's better for my wallet, well, until I get upgrade-itus on the playback end.

Maybe do a comp where you don't use the psp2, just the V3 as gain. In every comp I've heard that uses a psp2, you get transformer smear on transients and detail. It adds a nice harmonic goo, but for detailed comps of ADCs, it doesn't help (in my opinion). Go for a round 2 and see if you/we still prefer it. If you still have trouble ABXing it, then there is always ebay (or the yard sale)....
Mics: B&K 4011, Schoeps MK5 (Nbobs, Naiant PFA), Busman BSC-1 (K11/K21/K31/K41 caps), Church CA-14 (o, c), Church CAFS, Core Sound Binaurals
Pre: EAA PSP-2,  Lunatec V3, Nbox-Platinum, Church CA-9200
ADC: Mytek 192 ADC, Oade Mod SBM-1
Rec: Oade Supermod PMD-661, Tascam DR60D, M-Audio MicroTrack II, Korg MR-1 (32GB SSD mod); Sony PCM-M10, Edirol R09HR; iRiver HP-120
Photo: Canon 5D3, Canon EF-S 17-55mm f2.8, Canon EF 35mm f1.4L Canon EF 24-70 f2.8L MkI, Canon EF 70-200mm f2.8L IS MkI, Canon EF 50 mm f1.4, Canon EF 50 f1.2L, Canon EF 300 f/4L IS, Canon EF 100-400 f4-5.6L IS MkI
Video: Canon HF100

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2011, 09:32:05 AM »
I picked out the Korg, but mixed up the other two.

I've really liked the Mytek ADC sound in samples I've heard and assumed that was #3 (which I prefered), but as a V3 owner I'm happy to find I guessed wrong!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2011, 10:02:59 AM »
That was a tough (nasty?) room to record in...  Sometimes the most detailed gear suffers in bad rooms and actually sounds worse.  Much like the detail of the v3 can be too much in those situations.

Again, we've seen where the v3 > r09 was preferred over the v3 a/d.  And that was in a very good room. Shocking, but true.  Would we have preferred the r09 over the mytek? :P

I think it takes quite a few recordings to appreciate the character of gear.  So no way would I discount the mytek at all from this comp.

Your more recent comp where you mention using the splitter... With -18db into the mr1.  I'd be somewhat concerned about how that may impact the overall impedance and signal.  If you put an attenuator on one side of a simple splitter, I think it must impact the overall impedance going to the other side of the splitter.

I've never seen any tests where anyone analyzed the sound quality of the mr1 at different gain settings.  It may have trouble areas, much like the r09, r09hr, and others.

And transformer smearing of transients..  It does depend somewhat on the transformers.  The higher the ratio, the worse the transformer specs, and the less the bandwidth.  And probably, the more they lose detail.  The most expensive, no-compromise *transparent* transformer preamps use low ratio transformers (typically 1:2 jensens, the jt-16's).  The psp2 uses 1:10 ratio custom transformers.  My AERCO has 1:1 Reichenbach's.  I love my aerco, and it is extremely detailed.  But there have been times when I've chosen it over the v3 for stage lip recordings and felt I lost a little transient detail.

In some ways, transformers help us regain that classic analog sound and reduce the digital harshness.  They may also reward us psychoacoustically, giving sound character that our brains grew up with.  Especially those who grew up in the analog era.

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2011, 10:09:09 AM »
Agreed, all good points.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline hi and lo

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Re: ADC Shootout! Mytek 192 ADC vs Lunatec V3 vs Korg MR-1
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2011, 11:56:57 AM »
The person who thought sample 3 was a mess was me. Apparently no one else agrees, but after multiple sessions of listening, I stand by my opinion. Whereas others have described track 3 as 'punchy', I would say the lows are bloated and smeared and the highs are fatiguing. It's certainly got more 'life' to it than track 2, but I would not say it's as accurate, transparent and detailed as the Mytek.

Playback system is HD650's with an M902.

 

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