Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: 4022>???  (Read 7000 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
4022>???
« on: September 01, 2011, 01:56:21 PM »
All being well, I should have a lovely pair of 4022s in my hands in a couple of weeks but I'm a bit unsure of what to go for in the power/pre dept.

Low-pro is likely to be a good 80% of their use so portability is a big factor. Cost is also a concern. I've already got a Busman UA-5 but that's probably just a little too big for my liking.

Seeing as the V2/V3 is outside my budget at this stage, I think the Littlebox is probably my best bet but I'm very much tempted by the talk of a 48v Tinybox...

So what would the panel recommend?

a) Littlebox
b) wait for the 48v Tinybox
c) something else

Also, if anyone has any low-pro mounting tips they would care to share, please send me a PM.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2011, 02:36:42 PM »
Congrats on the DPAs!

Cheapest/smallest thing for lowpro work is the Denecke PS/2 with a stereo miniplug out.  That means you're relying on the pre of your portable recorder, though.

The LB is not very stealthable (although it is small), but it sounds good with the mics.   For full-on lowpro work I'd say to wait for the tinybox and get the PS/2 in the meantime.  To put it in perspective, I'd run 4021s in mobile fashion with the LB in a bag, but at a show where I was stealthing without guilt due to venue not allowing stands.  Also, the LB knobs are pretty easy to move, so you need to tape them down if you want to do that.

That used Oade 248 in the YS will make amazing recordings with the 4022s, and it's at least small enough to carry in a bag (not to mention internal battery powered).  I guess it's not much cheaper than the Lunatec pres though, but it is a little....

Your other option is an all-in-one deck like the Marantz 661.  That is also a fine option.  One of my buddies here runs his 4021s straight into a 660, which I've borrowed and run a few times, and that combo sounds quite nice (it's an Oade mod 660).
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2011, 02:49:45 PM »
Many thanks for that.

I'd not even thought about going for an all-in-one recorder...

I think I'll keep my eyes peeled for a PS2 on the Yardsale. They always seem to come in runs of twos or threes on there... Do you know if it would be an ok match for the M10 or r09?

Thanks again for the very useful advice.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline hi and lo

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2011, 03:04:41 PM »
Acidjack beat me to it, but the LB, while a great sounding option, usually has too many 'features' to make it the ideal stealth option. By features, I mean extra knobs and switches that might be prone to getting accidentally bumped.

That said, if you figured out what 'sound' you like (mostly a reference to input/output transformers) and the gain range you will need, I imagine Jon can build a LB with the same front-panel configuration as the TB. This would mean you have a locking minixlr for input (w/ option for an output pigtail... or you could get a separate locking minixlr for output), a gain selection switch, and an on/off switch. This would make the LB much better for stealth.

Lastly, I believe someone on this board tried running the 402x series with a 24v (?) phantom TB and apparently it works. Most likely there is a slight loss in sensitivity, but that's mostly a non-issue when recording amplified music.

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2011, 03:24:04 PM »
I read that account of using the Tinybox with great interest. I'm intrigued that you mention that it risks a loss in sensitivity as I'd assumed that the lower voltage might lower the headroom - but then I'm only going off what I've noticed with 9v mics when the battery starts running flat.

I think even if I went for a custom LB, the temptation to downsize to a Tinybox once 48v becomes an option would just be too much. And I really, really need to keep my equipment spending to an absolute minimum for the time being...
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (142)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4150
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2011, 03:37:23 PM »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2011, 03:40:18 PM »
Ha - I 'd just sent that seller a PM before checking back here...

Does anyone know if the XLR>minijack conversion is straightforward? I'm no expert but I'm ok with a soldering iron.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline hi and lo

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2011, 03:47:39 PM »

I think even if I went for a custom LB, the temptation to downsize to a Tinybox once 48v becomes an option would just be too much.

I wouldn't be so sure. Sonically, the Littlebox is superior. I love my Tinybox and Jon's products are fantastic, but there's no way I would say the Tinybox sounds as good as a top-shelf preamp or a Littlebox with input/output transformers. YMMV, but the TB does have a trade-off between size/convenience and sonic quality.

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 03:55:03 PM »
there's no way I would say the Tinybox sounds as good as a top-shelf preamp or a Littlebox with input/output transformers. YMMV, but the TB does have a trade-off between size/convenience and sonic quality.

As daft as it may sound, the idea that the the Littlebox might sound better than the Tinybox never even occured to me...

I'm going to have to re-check the LB dimensions and have a serious think about my options.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline OFOTD

  • Amorican
  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6310
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2011, 05:02:18 PM »
I may have missed your budget but please add the PSP3 and Aerco to you list of pre's.   

I made several nice tapes when I had my PSP3.  prof_peabody has countless smoker's running 4023's > Aerco.    Both pres are suited to run low-pro and sound fantastic.   

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2011, 05:22:50 PM »
Sorry, I really should've stated a budget.

Both of those pres look great but I think they're roughly double my current budget. The wish-list just never ends, does it?
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (142)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4150
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2011, 05:25:54 PM »
For the price you should go with the littlebox!!  It is very customizable and is still really small.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline cd2go

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 448
  • Gender: Male
    • Strictly Slambovian
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2011, 08:11:35 PM »
Your other option is an all-in-one deck like the Marantz 661.  That is also a fine option.

I can second this, as portability and simplicity are a big factor for me. The Marantz 661 with one of the Oade Mods (warm or concert) has kept me satisfied with my 4022s. See my LMA shows for recordings made with both mod flavors. And welcome to Team DPA!
from DPA to Tascam: VR-10, DR-05, DR-07 MKII, DR-40

my shows on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/cd2go

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2011, 11:07:48 PM »
Surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but I would also suggest you take a look at the Sound Devices MixPre or its predecessor, the MP-2.  Great little mic pre with lots of clean gain and nearly bomb-proof construction (as with most SD products).  Not too much bigger than an Aerco or PSP3, it's stealth-able under the right situations.  They also show up in the Yard Sale at pretty good prices.

Congrats on getting the DPA's; great mics!

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2011, 02:27:11 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback.

I think my plan is this: I'm buying the PS2 currently on the Yardsale as a temporary solution and then I'm going to do a lot of serious listening to the various small pres mentioned above to see if the next step will be ordering a Littlebox or holding off for a while and getting something more expensive.

As tempting as the all-in-one route is, there's just something about the way those small pres look that makes me want one.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2011, 10:28:26 AM »
^^ It's a fine move.

You'll find with the M10 you will sometimes need to run the PS/2 into the mic input on LOW in order to get decent levels, even at a rock show.  As fluffed constantly on this board, the M10s pres are decent, so that's totally fine. 

In the longer run, the Aerco is the smallest thing other than the tinybox, and it sounds pretty amazing - competitive with any of the high-end pres.  I thought about going that route but I stealth rarely, and when I do it's usually not in venues with much of a search. 

Ideally, I'd think having a 48v tinybox for stealth and something else of your choosing for non-stealth is the best move.  The tinybox is certainly better than the M10s pres.  I haven't heard an A/B of the tinybox vs. the littlebox or any other pre for that matter, so I can't say I have an opinion on how it stacks up, other than that hi and lo and I tape together a lot, and he's tried out lots of configs at different shows, and you saw his opinion.   It is a fact, of course, that the LB can have output transformers added, and those will impact how the pre sounds, and transformers aren't an option on the tb.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2011, 04:38:58 AM »
It sounds like the PS2 is going to be a very temporary solution - I don't like the idea of having to rely on the M10's mic-in to that extent. I'm sure it's ok, but habits of a lifetime and all that.

I guess there's no point in spending years trying to figure out which mics I like the best plus ages agonising over whether to actually spend the money on them only to try and economise on the pre.

One thing that I haven't thought about so far is how these pres are powered. Decent 9v batteries are not cheap here in the UK so I would be really be looking for something that could run off just one or possibly a RC 9.6v pack ala the UA5.  This puts me off the Aerco a bit, which is a shame because I really like how rugged it looks. Would I be right in thinking that the SD Mixpre runs on AAs? Do people actually run it on AAs when using the phantom?

I think it's going to depend very much on what shows up on the Yardsale. Looks like I missed a very reasonably priced FP24 not too long ago...

Aside from all that, I think you're quite right in terms of the Tinybox - no matter what else I decide on, I really like the idea of having something so small on hand for those (increasingly rare, I find) particularly difficult situations.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline bryonsos

  • Omni addict
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
  • Gender: Male
  • If it's important, tell me to write it down.
    • LMA uploads
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2011, 08:23:31 AM »
Yes, the MixPre runs on AAs. I've never run it dead, but with fresh batteries I've done 3+ hours in an evening without issue while running phantom. I just switched to rechargeables, so I'm being a bit more conservative now though. It has the best clean gain in that price range IMO, it uses the same electronics as their 7xx decks. The newer MixPre D has a USB and is a bit more expensive, but there are still NIB MixPres out there. I got mine from B&H a few months ago. Buy one, you won't regret it. You do have to be a bit careful with the knobs though, mine turn easily and I can imagine accidentally bumping them and changing the settings. Nothing a bit of tape wouldn't prevent in a lowpro situation.
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
Pres: CA-Ugly / Naiant Tinyhead / SD MixPre
Decks: Roland R-44 / Sony PCM-M10
GAKables
Dead Muppets

My recordings LMA / BT / TTD

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (142)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4150
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2011, 08:57:44 AM »
I think you could get the Aerco configured to run of external power as well as an internal lithuim battery!  I had a Sound devices MP-2 which is the very similar to the Mixpre and I ran it off of DVD batteries.  You could do a festival weekend easy with external power. 

It sounds like the PS2 is going to be a very temporary solution - I don't like the idea of having to rely on the M10's mic-in to that extent. I'm sure it's ok, but habits of a lifetime and all that.

I guess there's no point in spending years trying to figure out which mics I like the best plus ages agonising over whether to actually spend the money on them only to try and economise on the pre.

One thing that I haven't thought about so far is how these pres are powered. Decent 9v batteries are not cheap here in the UK so I would be really be looking for something that could run off just one or possibly a RC 9.6v pack ala the UA5.  This puts me off the Aerco a bit, which is a shame because I really like how rugged it looks. Would I be right in thinking that the SD Mixpre runs on AAs? Do people actually run it on AAs when using the phantom?

I think it's going to depend very much on what shows up on the Yardsale. Looks like I missed a very reasonably priced FP24 not too long ago...

Aside from all that, I think you're quite right in terms of the Tinybox - no matter what else I decide on, I really like the idea of having something so small on hand for those (increasingly rare, I find) particularly difficult situations.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 09:02:16 AM by jmbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

  • Trade Count: (58)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 6702
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2011, 11:38:27 AM »
I think you could get the Aerco configured to run of external power as well as an internal lithuim battery!

The aerco runs great off the wally lithiums.   I have run mine a lot in just about every recording situation.

New product - Get your NEUMANN active mounting bars
Active microphone mounting bars for Schoeps and AKG, and Naiant AKG, ready to ship

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2994
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 02:44:35 AM »
Yes, the MixPre runs on AAs. I've never run it dead, but with fresh batteries I've done 3+ hours in an evening without issue while running phantom.

Amount of time you will get out of the AA batteries depends on the mics you're running; the mic's current draw will determine it.  3+ hours is pretty good for a MixPre and you might get similar results with your 4022's.  I did a time test using fresh Duracell AA's and got just a hair over 2 hours running AKG 414's off phantom power, but those are LD microphones.
And yes, as bryonsos pointed out, the gain knobs can be sensitive so it's best to adjust them slowly and carefully.  That aside, it's a great pre-amp.

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40689
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #21 on: September 09, 2011, 11:30:44 PM »
Has anyone mentioned a Sonosax SX-M2 ??? I know theyre out of production, but they can still be found USED in MINT/GREAT shape, and for a decent pricetag :) Not to mention they sound amazing w/ just about EVERY MIC. I have used a Sax with many different mics, and they all sounded SWEET :) The Sax is the PERFECT mix with Schoeps, but my buddy lasttube runs 4023>SX-M2>722, and his tapes are FUCKIN' SMOKIN' :) VERY GOOD combo on that one :)

The Lemosax's are more $$ than a regular Sax w/ XLR inputs, but can DEF be found for a decent price USED :)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2011, 12:29:54 PM »
^^ I think he's looking at solutions in more like the $500 and sub-range, which a Sax (or an Aerco) is not.  I agree that if one wants to spend the $$$ and especially wants a lowpro pre, the Sax or Aerco are pretty hard to beat.

Oh, there's also a used Beyer MV100, which can be had cheap, but I understand that these can have some problems unless modded (?)
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2011, 05:16:54 PM »
They're here.......

And on the same day as the PS2 arrived too.

Just itching to get out there and tape something. I've got a nice open opportunity on Thursday but tempted to go low-pro on Monday night first. Not quite as straightforward as mounting 4060s, is it?

Thanks for the further pre options - It seems sub-$1000 offers a multitude of great options (certainly secondhand) but sub-$500 is a considerably tighter. It's looking more and more like the Littlebox for me, certainly in the short to medium term, especially as they seem to hold their value  so well - did everyone see how quickly that one on the Yardsale got snapped up this week?
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2011, 06:30:23 PM »
^^^ that latest lb got snapped up so fast bc a certain buddy of mine spends half of every show looking at the YS  ;)
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline hi and lo

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2011, 06:33:42 PM »
^^^ that latest lb got snapped up so fast bc a certain buddy of mine spends half of every show looking at the YS  ;)

And I go to a lot of shows!!!

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 07:45:55 PM »
Getting the itch again...

Happy with my Littlebox but tempted by the FP24 on the Yardsale at the moment. Any thoughts on replacing the LB with this? It looks a little more low-pro-friendly to me. Or should I just go for the v2 Tinybox?

Obviously the Tinybox will beat everything else in terms of size but if there is a significant sonic advantage in going with the FP24, I'd be interested to hear about it.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (70)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 12650
  • Gender: Male
  • "Are you Zman?"
    • My Archived shows
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 08:13:28 PM »
Getting the itch again...

Happy with my Littlebox but tempted by the FP24 on the Yardsale at the moment. Any thoughts on replacing the LB with this? It looks a little more low-pro-friendly to me. Or should I just go for the v2 Tinybox?

Obviously the Tinybox will beat everything else in terms of size but if there is a significant sonic advantage in going with the FP24, I'd be interested to hear about it.

Lundahl transformers.

Offline hi and lo

  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2314
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 08:14:55 PM »
Get an Aerco!  :P

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 08:16:39 PM »
If small size is the goal, the Aerco MP-2 w rechargeables is one of the better regarded pres that is still made. But it will be $950.

Personally, I like a transparent pre with the transparent DPAs. To me, the SD USBpre2 was great with them.  My buddy runs the MixPre wih them and I like what he gets too. So the FP24 could be a good choice, though apparently it is not EXACTLY a MixPre.

4022>USBPre2 or MixPre I would recommend every time. Personally I like the "sterile" SD sound, ESP with mics that are supposed to be that way.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline bryonsos

  • Omni addict
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2062
  • Gender: Male
  • If it's important, tell me to write it down.
    • LMA uploads
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2012, 08:43:21 PM »
Getting the itch again...

Happy with my Littlebox but tempted by the FP24 on the Yardsale at the moment. Any thoughts on replacing the LB with this? It looks a little more low-pro-friendly to me. Or should I just go for the v2 Tinybox?

Obviously the Tinybox will beat everything else in terms of size but if there is a significant sonic advantage in going with the FP24, I'd be interested to hear about it.

I did a *sorta* comp between my LB v2 (stock) vs MixPre the other night. I had taped the same band earlier with the MixPre, identical mics, placement etc., so it's not an exact comp, but I thought it was a decent and fair comp. To my ears the MixPre is very transparent (no surprise), whereas the LB darkened the sound a bit. By darkened I mean the LB didn't bring out the highs quite as much, but it doesn't lift the lows. I would say LB is better if you're worried that the sound on your mics is a bit bright. YMMV. I can post clips if you'd like.
Mics: 3 Zigma Chi HA-FX (COL-251, c, h, o-d, o-f) / Avenson STO-2 / Countryman B3s
Pres: CA-Ugly / Naiant Tinyhead / SD MixPre
Decks: Roland R-44 / Sony PCM-M10
GAKables
Dead Muppets

My recordings LMA / BT / TTD

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40689
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #31 on: February 25, 2012, 03:43:52 AM »
I would go the TinyBox v2 and get output transformers. Get a switch so you can run the TB with or without  the out transformers
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2012, 05:41:30 AM »
Thanks for the replies.

I think the Aerco is definitely my ideal but I just can't justify the expense at the moment.

Interesting about the LB vs Mixpre comparison. One of the deciding factors in going for 4022s was what I perceived as their brightness vs other similar mics so I'd be keen not to compromise this.

Looking around for info about the Mixpre/FP24 differences, the only substantial difference I can see related to how the XLR output is balanced. As I would be using the tape-out minijack, I'm presuming that this won't have any impact on me?

The Tinybox might be winning out here though - cost and size-wize, it takes the right boxes. I'll have to keep my ears open when they start getting used.

Thanks again.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline scb

  • Eli Manning should die of gonorrhea and rot in hell. Would you like a cookie, son?
  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 8600
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2012, 10:01:47 AM »
I have an ancient (purchased April, 2000) SD MP-2 lying around that I never use.  I made tons of tapes with 4022s that sound great.  It looks like someone beat the sh!t out of it, but it should still work fine.  if someone wants it, I'd sell it for cheap.  I haven't used it since October, 2004


Offline stober

  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1615
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2012, 11:32:35 AM »
In a good sounding environment I always liked a V2/ V3 with my DPA's. I had a few different preamps with my old4011's/ 4023's ( V2,V3,sonosax,sound device mp-2, oade m148) and I always liked the m148 and v2/v3. The oade only gives you 20db so sometimes that was not enough gain for the DPA's especially when I ran my AD-1000.  The sonosax was fine but the grace preamps always sounded better to me( with DPA's) ....especially outdoors at Bonnaroo.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 12:48:32 PM by stober »

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5845
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2012, 01:45:00 PM »
This would be the first time I've heard of any 402x mic described as "bright" - IMHO they are the least bright major manufacturer cardiod mic (that I've heard).  DPAs have a flat frequency response, and that is one of their greatest strengths, albeit also something that some will like, others will not.  To me, the choice of pre really comes down to whether you want to respect that really flat sound by going with something transparent, understanding you may want to fiddle with the 'musicality' in post, or whether you want to intentionally change the color of the sound with your preamp.  At least with the Naiant boxes, there seems to be a belief that the transformers in them color up the sound in a pleasant way - though I think the new obsession on the part of a lot of us with "transformers" may really be overblown and really doesn't focus on the fact that not all transformers are created equal and the way the transformer interacts with the other components (sound-wise, not in pure electrical terms) may not always be the same.  An EAA PSP2 has custom-made transformers that certainly are believed to contribute to making it an outstanding-sounding preamp.  But just because a PSP2 has transformers, a MixPre has transformers and a Littlebox has transformers doesn't mean there is some "transformer sound" that they all have that other pres don't. 

FWIW I think if what you are calling "brightness" is really a concern about harshness, you may want to try the transformer-enabled littlebox or tinybox over the transformerless one.  Owning both, I do think the transformer versions sound a bit softer while the transformerless ones tend to be really crisp bordering on harsh.  I found the Microtech Gefell M210 hypers paired with the littlebox to be a positively awful combination (not knocking either piece of gear, just my taste) - horrendously harsh sounding.  It led me to dump the Gefells almost immediately.  OTOH, there are some really nice recordings made with Gefells and some of the "warmer" preamps, Myco's Gefell>Aerco recordings I have heard being one example.  The Gefells have a really hyped midrange to me, so something warm tones that down a bit. 

With my 4021s I thought either littlebox sounded pretty good, but overall I'd say I preferred the transformer one.  Though I preferred the sound of either of the Sound Devices boxes (MixPre or USBPre2) to either of them.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline Colin Liston

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2226
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2012, 03:32:51 PM »
I have an ancient (purchased April, 2000) SD MP-2 lying around that I never use.  I made tons of tapes with 4022s that sound great.  It looks like someone beat the sh!t out of it, but it should still work fine.  if someone wants it, I'd sell it for cheap.  I haven't used it since October, 2004

PM sent.....
Occasionally....music mics record

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2012, 07:23:45 PM »
This would be the first time I've heard of any 402x mic described as "bright" - IMHO they are the least bright major manufacturer cardiod mic (that I've heard). 

Perhaps 'bright' is the wrong word - I think what I hear is a lack of the middy mushiness that some other mics have and I perceive this as a greater crispness.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40689
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #38 on: February 26, 2012, 12:33:44 AM »
I would get a TinyBox with output transformers, and an ON/OFF switch so your TB can have sound with or without the xformers ;) I'm telling you bro, check out my Rusted Root recording from last Friday. I ran mk41>lemosax & Busman Hypers>LB. And I frickin LOVE the way the LB w/ the transformers sounds ;D
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #39 on: February 26, 2012, 08:31:04 AM »
I would get a TinyBox with output transformers, and an ON/OFF switch so your TB can have sound with or without the xformers ;) I'm telling you bro, check out my Rusted Root recording from last Friday. I ran mk41>lemosax & Busman Hypers>LB. And I frickin LOVE the way the LB w/ the transformers sounds ;D

Just had fun comparing and contrasting various tracks from those two recordings... Going off-topic for a moment, I looked up that theatre and I can't believe you can rent that wonderful looking building for $1025 including soundman and cleaning... When I was putting gigs on over here, you could pay almost that much for a shitty space that held about 400 people.
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Team Schoeps Tapir that
  • Trade Count: (126)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40689
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #40 on: February 26, 2012, 11:46:34 PM »
I would get a TinyBox with output transformers, and an ON/OFF switch so your TB can have sound with or without the xformers ;) I'm telling you bro, check out my Rusted Root recording from last Friday. I ran mk41>lemosax & Busman Hypers>LB. And I frickin LOVE the way the LB w/ the transformers sounds ;D

Just had fun comparing and contrasting various tracks from those two recordings... Going off-topic for a moment, I looked up that theatre and I can't believe you can rent that wonderful looking building for $1025 including soundman and cleaning... When I was putting gigs on over here, you could pay almost that much for a shitty space that held about 400 people.

Awesome. So whaqt did you think of the 3 sources ???

Yeah, that theater is AMAZING. It has A LOT of gold painting everywhere inside the place. What sux about it tho is they sell NO DRINKS WHATSOEVER. Not even a Coca Cola :P :( And you werent allowed to smoke cigs outside during the show :P
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1408
  • Gender: Male
Re: 4022>???
« Reply #41 on: February 27, 2012, 11:26:09 AM »
Awesome. So whaqt did you think of the 3 sources ???

It's a tough one to call - I'm not that familiar with the Busmans (?Busmen) so I'm not sure how much the LB is contributing. The Busman/LB recording certainly holds it own versus the Schoeps/Lemosax one. If anything, I think I prefer how the vocals come across in the Busman one.

I must say though - both have a bit more 'room' than I like in my recordings: one of the reasons I often prefer to do the human mic stand act down the front even if I've got permission for a stand...
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.478 seconds with 69 queries.
© 2002-2019 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF