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Author Topic: Beyer MV-100 Problem  (Read 4640 times)

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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Beyer MV-100 Problem
« on: September 15, 2011, 09:44:20 PM »
While taping a show this week I discovered that my Beyer MV-100 malfunctioned midway through the set. It started about 54 minutes into the show. The sound drops out in both channels simultaneously at least 20db, momentarily, and everything sounds really distant. It's like the phantom power circuit craps out and can't supply the full 48 volts. The music sounds distant, as if I was in the back of the hall, under a bunch of bodies. I've never had this particular problem happen before. I had a bad XLR connection on one channel once that made a similar problem, but only one channel was affected then. The sound drops, then comes back, then drops again for about two minutes, and then comes back. Really annoying. I was not happy to learn that the taping gods were NOT smiling on me in the later part of that show.  :(

I like the MV-100 because the Neumann KM-100 amplifier bodies will click in place into the XLR inputs. I never have really Liked the sound of the Beyer, and have just used it out of convenience. The MV-100 is the same as the Sonosax SX-M2 except the Sonosax has an adjustable discrete input stage and the Beyer does not, and has IC's instead. 

Any ideas what to replace it with if it is terminal? It needs to be small and (shush!) stealthy. ;)


Offline hi and lo

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2011, 09:47:30 PM »
How was it being powered? Have you ruled that out as a possible cause?

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2011, 11:16:31 PM »
I like the MV-100 because the Neumann KM-100 amplifier bodies will click in place into the XLR inputs. I never have really Liked the sound of the Beyer, and have just used it out of convenience. The MV-100 is the same as the Sonosax SX-M2 except the Sonosax has an adjustable discrete input stage and the Beyer does not, and has IC's instead.

Any ideas what to replace it with if it is terminal? It needs to be small and (shush!) stealthy.

they also don't share circuit boards... It's like they just used the case.  :-\

As for a replacement if it is terminal, something small makes me think a littlebox, tinybox, another beyer, a sax, or an aerco. Only the tinybox won't be able to accept XLRs natively, but adaptor cables might make up for the size difference once Jon puts a P48 edition out. The sax, and possible both LB/TB units might be configurable to run without the km100 bodies depending on edition of the preamp you get (lemosax, and "active" little/tiny boxes). So unless you are wedded to using the bodies, that's something to consider.
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Offline jbell

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2011, 11:49:32 PM »
Jon might be able to build a Littlebox with the LC inputs like the Lemosax and you could power Neumann caps without the bodies.  Worth looking into!
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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 02:58:25 PM »
It's powered from the internal two 9 volts, which were brand new, and test fine on my tester.

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 03:14:30 PM »
This is my rig:

Neumann AK 40's (x/y)->KC3->KM-100's->Beyer MV-100->Sony TCD-D8

I have been thinking for a while of replacing the D8 with a HD recorder as I have used up all of my DAT blanks and I can't find a source for them anymore. Now with this preamp problem I might just go into retirement. :(  I've been a taper for 25 years. What A Long Strange Trip It's Been.

Offline johnw

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2011, 03:24:43 PM »
How about looking into an Oade mod Marantz 661? That would combine a pre with a solid state recorder that has XLR inputs. After 25 years why quit?
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline jbell

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2011, 04:02:14 PM »
could it be related to the DAT recorder??
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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2011, 06:04:59 PM »
How about looking into an Oade mod Marantz 661? That would combine a pre with a solid state recorder that has XLR inputs. After 25 years why quit?

true, solid recommendation, especially if the 661-mod sound is agreeable to the OP's preferences.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2011, 09:28:45 PM »
Thanks for the advice. I don't think it's a recorder problem, as my D8 is Only used for live recording and hasn't been used that much (compared to my D7). It sounds like a loose connection. I would have thought that it was another XLR jack that needed re-soldering, but both channels drop out together. I will test both pieces of gear at home.

I would like to get a small, discrete preamp, as I have been told that running the MV-100 is like throwing a wet blanket over the Neumanns. My set was the SKM-140, which also came with another set of cables in addition to the KC3 actives. These other cables had connectors to come off of the KM-100's but terminated in funny little connectors. Anyone know what these things are for and if you could use them with a small preamp?

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2011, 10:02:22 PM »
Those are so you can run it with a Lemosax!!  That is what I was trying to say earlier that Jon Naiant might be able to build you a littlbox with the LC3 inputs like the lemosax have.  He's pres are very affordable and you could skip the mic bodies and run your caps into the pre.  You should send him an email.  He will probably need to know the pinout to build the Littlebox correctly. 

Thanks for the advice. I don't think it's a recorder problem, as my D8 is Only used for live recording and hasn't been used that much (compared to my D7). It sounds like a loose connection. I would have thought that it was another XLR jack that needed re-soldering, but both channels drop out together. I will test both pieces of gear at home.

I would like to get a small, discrete preamp, as I have been told that running the MV-100 is like throwing a wet blanket over the Neumanns. My set was the SKM-140, which also came with another set of cables in addition to the KC3 actives. These other cables had connectors to come off of the KM-100's but terminated in funny little connectors. Anyone know what these things are for and if you could use them with a small preamp?
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) > Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2011, 10:14:59 PM »
I would like to get a small, discrete preamp, as I have been told that running the MV-100 is like throwing a wet blanket over the Neumanns. My set was the SKM-140, which also came with another set of cables in addition to the KC3 actives. These other cables had connectors to come off of the KM-100's but terminated in funny little connectors. Anyone know what these things are for and if you could use them with a small preamp?

Might be Lemos, in which case the lemo sax would take them natively (presuming the pin-out is correct).  Neumann changed the cable connections so there are two different types out there. A picture would be helpful.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2011, 10:53:17 PM »
How much are these 'Littleboxes'? I wonder if my MV-100 could be modded with better innards and the other inputs added?

I remember the basic SX-M2 was going for $900 when I was looking for a pre. I got my MV-100 used for $400 in 1998. I settled on the MV-100 because I could afford it and I had heard that even though the Sonosax was discrete, it still didn't sound appreciably better for the money spent. I only knew one taper, Bonnie Harris, that used a Sonosax with  Schoeps MK41v mics.

I have a friend who owns a local pro sound company. I should ask him if he could modify it. Or do the Oades offer a MV-100 mod?

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2011, 11:21:37 PM »
Email Jon!!  He can help you out.

How much are these 'Littleboxes'? I wonder if my MV-100 could be modded with better innards and the other inputs added?

I remember the basic SX-M2 was going for $900 when I was looking for a pre. I got my MV-100 used for $400 in 1998. I settled on the MV-100 because I could afford it and I had heard that even though the Sonosax was discrete, it still didn't sound appreciably better for the money spent. I only knew one taper, Bonnie Harris, that used a Sonosax with  Schoeps MK41v mics.

I have a friend who owns a local pro sound company. I should ask him if he could modify it. Or do the Oades offer a MV-100 mod?
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) > Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2011, 12:33:06 AM »
Yeah, email jon and see what he can do. If the lemosax isnt on the radar then id look at a cheaper all in one and replace both amp/recorder or a box from naiant (even if you have to keep the xlr bodies).
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2011, 03:20:56 PM »
And Lemosax's are more expensive than a regular sx-m2. I paid $1,100.00/Shipped for my Lemosax in Great condition :P :)
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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2011, 11:23:54 PM »
Thanks again for the advice. I am going to try and have my MV-100 checked out. I saw in the archives that there was a thread about MV-100 mods. Very interesting. I like the looks of the newer Lemosax Sonosax, but at the moment I can't justify spending over a grand on something that I would only be using a couple of times a year. Times are tough now, with the economy in such sad shape. I definitely got my moneys worth out the MV-100. I had purchased a Lunatec V2  in '99 from Marc Nutter at Sonic Sense (remember him anyone), and then traded it back almost immediately for a new DAP1, as there was just no way that I could stealth with the V2. I loved the sound however, and wished my Beyer would sound like that.

This website reminds me a lot of DATHeads, which I belonged to in the 90's and was how I acquired my used MV-100.

Offline 1Cylinder

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2011, 09:48:49 AM »
FWIW at one time I ran pretty much the same rig you're using - mine was KM184's > Beyer MV-110 > SBM-1 > DA-P1. I eventually ditched both the Beyer & the SBM-1 and bought a Lunatec V2.  The improvement in resolution & clarity of sound was remarkable. It was a bit of a PITA having the lug around a second outboard battery (for the V2) but after making a few reordings there was no way I could go back to the Beyer. Of course, if you do most stealth recordings the V2 is probably not a realistic option.  If the size of the Beyer doesn't hamper your stealthing (?) you might consider picking up a used Sonosax. You don't see a lot of them for sale but w/ a little poking around I'm sure you could find one. There's a ton of those units still out there. Prior to the release of the Lunatec V2 the Sonosax was pretty much the "high end" of pre-amps for DAT tapers.

Good luck!

Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2011, 09:43:42 PM »
When I bought my MV-100 I researched the preamp question and found, that for stealthing, I only had a couple of options. The MV-100, the Sonosax SX-M2, or the Aerco MP-2. (There was also a French-made EAA PS-P2, but it was really expensive and I wondered about parts availibility.) I settled on the Beyer because it was cheaper than the Sonosax. Plus, I could never find a photo of the Aerco, and I wasn't going to buy something sight unseen, even though I really liked the sound of the MP-2.

Right now I really can't afford to replace it with anything, though it's fun to think about. (I think I mentioned in a previous post that I actually had purchased a Lunatec V2, but traded it back for a DA-P1 because I couldn't stealth with it. [The unit was a little large but manageable, but the required cables+battery pack was too much gear.])

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2011, 01:09:26 AM »
(I think I mentioned in a previous post that I actually had purchased a Lunatec V2, but traded it back for a DA-P1 because I couldn't stealth with it. [The unit was a little large but manageable, but the required cables+battery pack was too much gear.])

yeah, it's tough to explain to security why their metal detector went off before you went through...
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2011, 03:14:48 PM »
FWIW, I think the Aerco sounds awful. Never did a side by side w/ the Beyer, so can't comment on which one sounds better (or worse  :) )  Also, I stealthed a couple shows using Schoeps CCM-4 > V2 > DA-P1.  Aain, the latter 2 pieces of gear aren't the best options if you do a lot of stealth taping - but it can be done.  I'd say look into the lemosax, and if you can track down a Sonosax consider that as well. 

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2011, 04:20:12 PM »
I am biased, but I would look into the Sax/Lemosax option as well!
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus SDXC-I

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Campfire Audio Dorado IEM's >
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax {3.5mm} | 
FiiO LC 2.5c {2.5mm} >
Shanling Audio M5s | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 15 5570-5521 Laptop

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2011, 04:25:45 PM »
There is a Littlebox in the YS for $150!!  It has a modified battery sled, but Jon told me he would replace it.  Nice inexpensive replacement.
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) > Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

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Offline OldNeumanntapr

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2011, 10:23:15 PM »
if you do most stealth recordings the V2 is probably not a realistic option.  If the size of the Beyer doesn't hamper your stealthing (?) you might consider picking up a used Sonosax.

The Beyer is easy to stealth with. It's really small. I plug the KM-100's directly into it. (Which is probably why the left XLR jack became unsoldered once. I've run the V2 on a couple of occasions and it is very transparent, but large.

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Re: Beyer MV-100 Problem
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2011, 10:41:26 PM »
FWIW, I think the Aerco sounds awful. Never did a side by side w/ the Beyer, so can't comment on which one sounds better (or worse  :)

Really? I have a couple of shows made with an Aerco MP-2 and thought they sounded pretty good. One such recording was the Zero show from 3/7/98 at the Royal Waikoloan Hotel, on the beach in Kona, HI. Another taper, his name escapes me, sent me a DAT copy of his master: KM-184's (x/y)->Aerco MP-2->D7. I acquired that recording specifically to listen to the preamp, as I was running the same capsules.

I have never done an exact comparison either though.

 

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