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Author Topic: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?  (Read 5959 times)

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Offline 1Cylinder

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 03:24:33 PM »
I never cared for the Aerco. IMO it's sonics are just a slight step up from the Beyer MV-100, but no where close to a Sonosax, V2 or V3. I supposed if you need a small preamp that'll run on 9 volt (or whatever sized it uses) batteries, and you don't want to part with $700+ for a used Sax, then the Aerco is a good option.

We did extensive comps between the Aerco and the V3 a few years ago, and a majority of us here at TS disagree with the above statement.  You're entitled to your opinion.  It's a free world.   ;)

>>>>>>> While I applaud your efforts in couducting the "extensive comps" you mention, I highly doubt these trials included enough participants from TS to validate the claim that the "majority of us here at TS disagree with..."  I'm not suggesting that the consenus of your group was any different than what you've presented - just that it seems implausible you'd be able to gather more than the 50% of TS members necessary to constitute a majority.   

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2012, 03:35:02 PM »
I never cared for the Aerco. IMO it's sonics are just a slight step up from the Beyer MV-100, but no where close to a Sonosax, V2 or V3. I supposed if you need a small preamp that'll run on 9 volt (or whatever sized it uses) batteries, and you don't want to part with $700+ for a used Sax, then the Aerco is a good option.

We did extensive comps between the Aerco and the V3 a few years ago, and a majority of us here at TS disagree with the above statement.  You're entitled to your opinion.  It's a free world.   ;)

>>>>>>> While I applaud your efforts in couducting the "extensive comps" you mention, I highly doubt these trials included enough participants from TS to validate the claim that the "majority of us here at TS disagree with..."  I'm not suggesting that the consenus of your group was any different than what you've presented - just that it seems implausible you'd be able to gather more than the 50% of TS members necessary to constitute a majority.

Hey now...  you made a strongly worded opinion and now you need to back it up! :)

Arguing statistical significance and semantics with Sypder isn't going to get us any closer to the answer. I would love it if you were to follow-up this discussion with, as asked by 11, info on how many times you have run the aerco and with what gear? We can certainly do another comp on the forums here, but until there's something for us to listen to, I have to support Spyder, 11, and the others that have a fair amount of love for the Aerco. It's a great pre and I don't think I would describe it as 'a step above the mv100," but the proof is in the sound comps!

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2012, 03:53:30 PM »
Arguing statistical significance and semantics with Sypder isn't going to get us any closer to the answer. I would love it if you were to follow-up this discussion with, as asked by 11, info on how many times you have run the aerco and with what gear? We can certainly do another comp on the forums here, but until there's something for us to listen to, I have to support Spyder, 11, and the others that have a fair amount of love for the Aerco. It's a great pre and I don't think I would describe it as 'a step above the mv100," but the proof is in the sound comps!

True. Part of what discrepency may be in what users value for sonic characteristics. For example, many of us can think of a bunch of people who love the sonosax sound, but both freelunch and I dislike what it does to the soundstage (aka, the evil smear). I like aspects of the sax (it's sparkle, and soundstage widening, although poorly done imho), but I don't like how it widens the soundstage (via what sounds like a delayed feedback in fractional milliseconds) which contributes to the overall smear. If you like the sharper/sparkley transients and don't have the same affinity for soundstage, then I could see holding it in much higher regard. To me, it's a value question just as much (and in some ways, more so) than a gear question.
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Offline 1Cylinder

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2012, 08:04:28 PM »
Hey now...  you made a strongly worded opinion and now you need to back it up! :)

Arguing statistical significance and semantics with Sypder isn't going to get us any closer to the answer.

>>>> There is no definitive answer. There's tons of reasons why people end up with certain pieces of gear, and its not unlikely that each of us weighs the various factors differently when deciding what to purchase. Concerning "arguing statistical significance," I'm not sure what argument this refers to. I'm certainly not trying to ram my opinion of the Aerco down anyone's throat, nor am I the one who responded to (my) non-favorable post on the Aerco w/ a statement about previous comps being the reasons for this goups's affinity for the preamp. My intention wasn't to nickle and dime Syper on semantics. We can only respond to statements as they appear on the page. I'm not going to reply based on what I assume someone itended to say. That doesn't do anything to further a discussion and in my experience usually leads to a uselss pissing match.

I would love it if you were to follow-up this discussion with, as asked by 11, info on how many times you have run the aerco and with what gear?

>>> Ok. One of my local taper buddies had an Aerco for many years. I've heard dozens of recordings he made with that preamp, as well as a couple we made together (using the Aerco.) Most of his tapes were made w/ AKG 461 mics, but he also did a bunch with his old pair of Sennhesier 441, a pair of Neumann KM184 and a pair of Gefell M210. The ones we made together were done w/ Schoeps MK4 mics. Within our little taping community there were also guys with Sonosax(s) and Lunatec V2(s). I've heard many recordings done with those two preamps, using one of the afforementioned sets of mics. (I've heard many Sax and V2 recordings done with other mics, but that's not really relevant here.)

We can certainly do another comp on the forums here, but until there's something for us to listen to, I have to support Spyder, 11, and the others that have a fair amount of love for the Aerco. It's a great pre and I don't think I would describe it as 'a step above the mv100," but the proof is in the sound comps!

>>>> I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone that the Aerco sucks and/or they'd be better off using something else. In my original post I simply shared my opinion of the preamp, based on experience. I don't mean to sound crass, but it's of little concern to me that others here share (or don't share) my opinions on gear.  I mean, if we all had the same thoughts on gear this forum would be pretty boring.


Offline hi and lo

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 08:58:11 PM »
Concerning "arguing statistical significance," I'm not sure what argument this refers to.

Umm.... this?   ???

Quote from: 1Cylinder
While I applaud your efforts in couducting the "extensive comps" you mention, I highly doubt these trials included enough participants from TS to validate the claim that the "majority of us here at TS disagree with..."  I'm not suggesting that the consenus of your group was any different than what you've presented - just that it seems implausible you'd be able to gather more than the 50% of TS members necessary to constitute a majority.   

You've clearly got extensive knowledge of three very high-end preamps used with a variety of microphones. I'm just trying to point out that it would have been better to say "You know... I've heard/got some tapes that I think would change your crowd sourced opinion" rather than "Your statistical sampling methods are inaccurate." One helps us, the other... not so much.

Offline 1Cylinder

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 08:08:29 AM »
I'm just trying to point out that it would have been better to say "You know... I've heard/got some tapes that I think would change your crowd sourced opinion..."

>>>>> Perhaps, although I doubt such a statement by a single, relatively-unknown taper at TS (referring to myself) would hold much weight.

...rather than "Your statistical sampling methods are inaccurate." One helps us, the other... not so much.

>>>> Again, I'm not the one who presented the pro-Aerco results of previous comps as a counter to my original post. I apologize if my pointing out an error in Spyder's statement ruffled some feathers. Upsetting and/or insulting anyone certainly wasn't my intention. That being said, I'm still surprised that questioning the (presented)  basis for the pre-Aerco consensus would be considered not so helpful, as (I think) you are suggesting.


Offline aaronji

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 08:58:33 AM »
>>>> There is no definitive answer. There's tons of reasons why people end up with certain pieces of gear, and its not unlikely that each of us weighs the various factors differently when deciding what to purchase. Concerning "arguing statistical significance," I'm not sure what argument this refers to. I'm certainly not trying to ram my opinion of the Aerco down anyone's throat, nor am I the one who responded to (my) non-favorable post on the Aerco w/ a statement about previous comps being the reasons for this goups's affinity for the preamp. My intention wasn't to nickle and dime Syper on semantics. We can only respond to statements as they appear on the page. I'm not going to reply based on what I assume someone itended to say. That doesn't do anything to further a discussion and in my experience usually leads to a uselss pissing match.

I think you were kind of "nickel-and-diming", as you put it.  It's pretty clear, I think, that Spyder's statement referred to TS'ers that participated in those comps, isn't it? 

>>>> I'm certainly not trying to convince anyone that the Aerco sucks and/or they'd be better off using something else. In my original post I simply shared my opinion of the preamp, based on experience. I don't mean to sound crass, but it's of little concern to me that others here share (or don't share) my opinions on gear.  I mean, if we all had the same thoughts on gear this forum would be pretty boring.

If you don't care whether people share your opinion, or not, why bother to even respond (in a prickly manner) when someone disagrees?  Especially when you don't offer any explanation.  Anyone looking into the Aerco will come across your view; you have stated it pretty clearly (http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=148869.msg1905971#msg1905971).  Just repeating, "I think the Aerco sounds awful" doesn't contribute much to the conversation...

Surprising, given your extensive Aerco experience, that you don't know how it is powered or how much it costs:

I never cared for the Aerco. IMO it's sonics are just a slight step up from the Beyer MV-100, but no where close to a Sonosax, V2 or V3. I supposed if you need a small preamp that'll run on 9 volt (or whatever sized it uses) batteries, and you don't want to part with $700+ for a used Sax, then the Aerco is a good option.

Anyway, everyone is entitled to their opinion (which Spyder said in his post, incidentally)...Yours is duly noted...

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 01:34:40 PM »
Well said, aaron.

I'm just trying to point out that it would have been better to say "You know... I've heard/got some tapes that I think would change your crowd sourced opinion..."

>>>>> Perhaps, although I doubt such a statement by a single, relatively-unknown taper at TS (referring to myself) would hold much weight.

Absolutely it would and we want your input!

Quote
...rather than "Your statistical sampling methods are inaccurate." One helps us, the other... not so much.

>>>> Again, I'm not the one who presented the pro-Aerco results of previous comps as a counter to my original post. I apologize if my pointing out an error in Spyder's statement ruffled some feathers. Upsetting and/or insulting anyone certainly wasn't my intention. That being said, I'm still surprised that questioning the (presented)  basis for the pre-Aerco consensus would be considered not so helpful, as (I think) you are suggesting.
.

Your questioning of the Aerco ts.com arrived consensus is totally fine, but (I think) you're missing the point in that we'd just like love for you to add to the discussion by going even just a tiny bit further in discussing the specific details about why the Aerco might not be as top-notch as other pres. Sound samples would be great, but not required. Talking through it is cool, too, but as it is you just kinda did a 'hit-and-run' on the conversation.

Offline 1Cylinder

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #23 on: February 25, 2012, 03:15:59 PM »
Well said, aaron.

>>>>>> I concur. Obviously I don't agree with all of Aaron's statements, but overall it was a strong, non-personal, post. Well done Aaron. I  think the post would have been a home run w/o the inclusion of  "Surprising, given your extensive Aerco experience, that you don't know how it is powered or how much it costs."  The addition of that pasive-aggresive statement (ironically - coming shortly after asserting my previous comments were presented in a "prickly" manner) changes the tone of the post and moves it toward more of a personal attack...   Anyway, this thread has gone on far too long and has evolved (de-voled?) into something of little/no contribution to the analysis of the Aerco. I'll remove myself now so you guys can return to your orignal discussion. I appreciate everyone's input and will certainly take heed in future postings. 

Peace.

Offline aaronji

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2012, 03:22:34 PM »
>>>>>> I concur. Obviously I don't agree with all of Aaron's statements, but overall it was a strong, non-personal, post. Well done Aaron. I  think the post would have been a home run w/o the inclusion of  "Surprising, given your extensive Aerco experience, that you don't know how it is powered or how much it costs."  The addition of that pasive-aggresive statement (ironically - coming shortly after asserting my previous comments were presented in a "prickly" manner) changes the tone of the post and moves it toward more of a personal attack...   Anyway, this thread has gone on far too long and has evolved (de-voled?) into something of little/no contribution to the analysis of the Aerco. I'll remove myself now so you guys can return to your orignal discussion. I appreciate everyone's input and will certainly take heed in future postings. 

Peace.

My post was neither passive-aggressive nor ironic.  It is hard to question someone's veracity without being, intentionally, a little prickly (although I did minimize it to the extent possible)...

Offline tapjunkie

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Re: Opinions on Schoeps>Aerco.... ?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2012, 04:22:31 PM »
I used the Schoeps and Aerco for several years for stealthing. You cannot go wrong with the size and ease of use.  While is is not as good sounding as the V2, it cannot be overlooked.

 

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