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Author Topic: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)  (Read 78100 times)

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Offline detroit lightning

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #420 on: October 09, 2018, 08:17:15 PM »
I bought a -12db set of XLRs just for this, and never needed them. They were good for other stuff, but the R44 takes a hot board really well.

Perfect - thanks!

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #421 on: October 10, 2018, 11:42:54 PM »
i guess im in the club.
among live taping, I also enjoy a nice quadraphonic transfer.
Do theline outs on the r-44 all playback at once?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #422 on: October 11, 2018, 09:18:49 AM »
^ Yes.  I primarily use mine these days as a 4 channel LCRS playback deck for files that I've recorded onto a DR2d.

You'll need to enter the menu to set the outputs to individual instead of monitor (or similar terminology, I don't have it in front of me). In either case all four RCA outputs are active, but if set to monitor you'll get L/R monitor output from both 1/2 and from 3/4, mirroring the headphone output. 

It provides control over output level for each individual channel.  In addition you can switch in the graphic EQ, or other functions such as Mid/Side, compression, etc.  Those "effects" functions can be switched in and controlled as individual channels, as channel pairs, or as a 4 channel group.

Note: All this functionality is disappointedly absent on the R-88, which provides no control whatsoever over its 8 direct channel outputs.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #423 on: October 11, 2018, 03:10:02 PM »
Good to hear.

What do you prefer about the dr-2d?  The size?

I have both... but just picked up the dr-44 because the 2d (though small). Always required a bit more effort and other gear...

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #424 on: October 11, 2018, 03:48:15 PM »
That's it- the small size of the DR2d, which is the main requirement for that particular application, and secondarily it's IR remote operation capability.  In almost every other way the R-44 is superior.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #425 on: October 17, 2018, 11:07:02 PM »
just got my hands on the r-44.  smaller than i thought, but plastic for sure.  I am going to break this thing :iamwithstupid:

I see there is a specific bag, but is there any other protective accessories.

Like some gum rubber band type things that might fit around the sides. seems like there might be something.

Offline dallman

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #426 on: October 18, 2018, 11:07:48 AM »
just got my hands on the r-44.  smaller than i thought, but plastic for sure.  I am going to break this thing :iamwithstupid:

I see there is a specific bag, but is there any other protective accessories.

Like some gum rubber band type things that might fit around the sides. seems like there might be something.
I have used this quite a bit:
https://sugru.com/
Support Live Music: Tape A Show Today!
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Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #427 on: October 18, 2018, 12:01:53 PM »
wow. that might be the stuff.

did you put that on your r-44 permanently?

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #428 on: October 21, 2018, 04:46:38 PM »
Looks likes anything goes here, so long as I’m packing an r-44... I’m wondering about some record setting/microphone set up.

I record music at a small club usually very loud young band with a mono PA system.

I used to bring a tascam Dr-2d, an 8 channel mixer, put mics all over the place and get a board feed.  Got some great stuff, but just too cumbersome.
Enter dr-44 - I have had one for 6 days.

In the same setting I just want to bring the R-44, three electrovoice 654a’s, and one extra xlr for the mono board feed.
(These are the only mice I have, so that’s what I use)

I am wondering how I should place the mics/what record set up I should chose.


The stage is completely on the left side of a shotgun room, with the right a path to the fire exit.
In a sort of triangle,  I close mic in front of the guitar amp stage right.  Then one mic above the drums stage right facing stage left.  Then the third mic close miced in front of the bass cabinet on stage left.


I am confused about what, if any, should I stereo pair, or 4channel wav. Or 4sepatate mono.
Is this an application to bring quadraphonic recording of terrible indibands to a national spotlight?


Should I stereo the guitar and bass. And center the overhead drum and mono vocal in post.
Is there a smart way to utilize the forced internal mixing settings to my advantage.
Minimal daw editing/ panning would be awesome.


I also thought about not close micing,  but the omnis make everything seem far away.


So...that’s why I’m here.  Thanks for the tips.




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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #429 on: October 21, 2018, 05:37:49 PM »
I'd set the R-44 up 4-channel mono to record.  Line them all up in Audacity later, and assign each mono source to either mono, left or right, and mix away.

Have fun, and make great tapes man.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #430 on: October 22, 2018, 11:13:12 AM »
Other than making a straight soundboard recording, there are two general approaches to live music recording by tapers-
Mic'ing the sources individually and building a mix from those individual tracks.
-or-
Mic'ing the entire ensemble as a group.

The first sounds like what you are doing, analogous to FOH on-stage mic'ing and typical studio recording approaches.  It provides an upfront, detailed and close-perspective sound as well as more control over level balances and panning of each element in the mix.  However, it requires more access, more setup, more mic-stands and cables, and more post-recording work to mix everything appropriately.

The second generally implies a stereo microphone pair setup so as to capture everything at once in a single stereo track, although sometimes involves a second pair of microphones, a soundboard feed and/or additional spot mics.  This approach is far more common for tapers.  The recordings are generally more reverberant and distant sounding than close-mic'd recordings, yet not necessarily overly distant and reverberant if you choose the recording position and the setup wisely.  This approach requires a lot less work post-recording work, but also provides less control.  You need to carefully choose where to place the microphones and determine which stereo microphone setup is appropriate in order to get a good balance of all sources.

Sometimes a "middle way" type recording can combine the best of both worlds.  Usually that's microphones setup as a stereo pair along the front edge of the stage rather than from a position out in the audience or further back in the room.  This eliminates the need for building a mix from individual sources, yet still gets a close and upfront sound, often with improved imaging, presence and depth due to picking up the sound "as heard on stage" rather than "as heard back in the room".  You still need to choose mic position and setup wisely to get a good balance of all sources.  And because you are not picking up the PA speakers cleanly which are projecting out into the room, you'll usually want a soundboard feed as well for that content.  Your omnis can work well for this, spaced across the front of the stage.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #431 on: October 24, 2018, 06:29:08 PM »
I have tried this approach with the omni's, but if the mic isnt facing the source, it sounds miles away.

So.  I'm just going to start recording power trios and close mic everything.  Then the drum mic in the back to pick up some ambiance.

we  shall  see.

alex

Offline morst

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #432 on: October 27, 2018, 02:33:00 PM »
Looks likes anything goes here, so long as I’m packing an r-44... I’m wondering about some record setting/microphone set up.

I record music at a small club usually very loud young band with a mono PA system.

I used to bring a tascam Dr-2d, an 8 channel mixer, put mics all over the place and get a board feed.  Got some great stuff, but just too cumbersome.
Enter dr-44 - I have had one for 6 days.

In the same setting I just want to bring the R-44, three electrovoice 654a’s, and one extra xlr for the mono board feed.
(These are the only mice I have, so that’s what I use)

I am wondering how I should place the mics/what record set up I should chose.


The stage is completely on the left side of a shotgun room, with the right a path to the fire exit.
In a sort of triangle,  I close mic in front of the guitar amp stage right.  Then one mic above the drums stage right facing stage left.  Then the third mic close miced in front of the bass cabinet on stage left.


I am confused about what, if any, should I stereo pair, or 4channel wav. Or 4sepatate mono.
Is this an application to bring quadraphonic recording of terrible indibands to a national spotlight?


Should I stereo the guitar and bass. And center the overhead drum and mono vocal in post.
Is there a smart way to utilize the forced internal mixing settings to my advantage.
Minimal daw editing/ panning would be awesome.


I also thought about not close micing,  but the omnis make everything seem far away.


So...that’s why I’m here.  Thanks for the tips.


No vocals?


You could spot mic the guitar & bass amps, and run a stereo pair of drum overheads, that could get you some balanced stereo, if you center it over the kick. (sorry just re-read and saw you only have three mics and wanna do a mono board. )


For spot mics, you may as well run mono x4. Longer file times than if you pair them, which is handy.


I'd probably run a cardioid pair near a wall or floor or ceiling to keep it out of the way, and combine that with the board feed. Or even split the cardioids on the corners of the stage. Since you have Omnis, try one in the middle and one on each stage corner to get a full picture and not just the spot. If there are already mics on the amps then they'll come in through the mono SBD mix.

As Gutbucket says: Your omnis can work well for this, spaced across the front of the stage.

While I'm editing, THANKS DALLMAN!
Quote
I have used this quite a bit:https://sugru.com/
« Last Edit: October 27, 2018, 02:40:26 PM by morst »
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Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #433 on: November 02, 2018, 10:53:37 PM »
Great input.  Gonna try a few different ways on a night with multiple bands.

Next question...

Is there a specific way to save a .wav file on a computer that so the the r-44 knows to play it out to four different channels?

My endgame is to take these thre stage mics and one vocal ...mix the four together for quad play back.  So ... when I open these up in a daw... what happens?

Do I open the four files in one audiotrack and mix each stereo separately. Or. stage to r-44 to four channel mixer into four track tape.  Then played back into r-44 for a saved digital file.   

Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #434 on: November 06, 2018, 03:34:05 PM »
Maybe i'll rephrase the question.

How does the r-44 know which .wav files to play out of each channel?

what if I save 4 wav files from my computer to an sd card.  How would the R-44 know what to do with it?

 

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