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Author Topic: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)  (Read 77961 times)

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Offline morst

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #435 on: November 06, 2018, 03:45:07 PM »
Maybe i'll rephrase the question.

How does the r-44 know which .wav files to play out of each channel?

what if I save 4 wav files from my computer to an sd card.  How would the R-44 know what to do with it?

A computer will generally only play one sound file at a time, per application.


Bring all 4 into a workstation and you can pan left-right.
I'm not sure how to mix multichannel surround. I never really thought about outputting to more than stereo?
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #436 on: November 06, 2018, 03:54:32 PM »
He's asking about playing the files back using the R-44.

R-44 numbers the files it creates 1.WAV, 2.WAV etc.  Each WAV contains either a single monophonic channel, 2 interleaved channels (stereo), or 4 interleaved channels (in a single polyphonic file), depending on how you setup the recorder.

To copy WAV files to a card with the intent of playing them back using the R-44:
Create a folder with a .pjt extension. Populate it with from 1 to 4 monophonic WAVs, or 1 to 2 stereo WAVs, or a single 4-channel polyphonic WAV.  The recorder will then recognize the files and play them as if they were recorded directly on the machine.

[edit- if using 2-channel stereo files, 1.WAV = chs 1&2 and 2.WAV = chs 3&4]
« Last Edit: November 06, 2018, 03:56:09 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #437 on: November 08, 2018, 04:13:35 PM »
thank you master gutbucket.... was that in the manual?  i couldnt find it, and it was one of the first questions I was looking for even before I bought it.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #438 on: November 08, 2018, 04:44:06 PM »
Dunno if it's in the manual or not.  I do it frequently.

When playing back on the R-44 you can set the RCA outputs to be either individual outputs of channels 1-4, or to output a L/R monitor-mix that duplicates the headphone output.  In the second case, RCA out #1&3 are Left and RCA out #2&4 are Right. 


Also, keep in mind that there is no alternate channel assignment or panning ability provided for the monitor mix. Channels 1&3 are always hard panned Left and channels 2&4 are always hard panned Right.  But there is a work around I sometimes use- To effectively pan channel 1 (and/or channel 3) to center in the monitor mix, switch on the Mid/Side decoder effect for that pair (set for playback, not record) and set Width to "0".  This effectively mutes channel 2 (and/or 4).  In that way you can have channels 1&2 hard-panned Left/Right and channel 3 panned center (or vice versa with 3&4 routed L/R and ch 1 panned center).  If M/S "Width" is not set to "0" you'll get the other channel of that pair mixed in instead of muted, also panned to center but with polarity inverted in the Right channel.
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #439 on: November 08, 2018, 08:25:43 PM »
Some years ago I got Naiant to make me a custom monitor mixer box for the R-44 to allow panning and levelling of the R-44 outputs.  I don't know whether they would now do such a job, but as I recall it, it worked well in the context of classical music location recording.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #440 on: November 09, 2018, 09:40:33 AM »
A four or more input channel / stereo output mixer will do that as well, but most of them require mains power.  As I recall, that custom Naiant monitor mixer of yours was battery powered, no?

A small mixer modification I intended to pursue but never actually realized was to tap post-fader outputs for each channel. The intent being level and EQ control over each discrete channel output, in addition to having that control for a 2-channel stereo mix.  I searched but no small/inexpensive mixers seem to provide such a feature.  The R44 does provide that functionality, so this was really more important for the Tascam DR-680 which provides no level or EQ control over the individual outputs, but does provide individual channel level and pan control into the stereo mix bus.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #441 on: November 09, 2018, 09:43:13 AM »
But all that said..
Elguapo511, your best bet will likely be to simply import the 4 mono files, or 2 stereo files into whatever multichannel editor you use on the computer and do all the mixing "in the box".
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline Ozpeter

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #442 on: November 10, 2018, 08:27:37 AM »
Yes, that mixer was indeed battery powered.  It also provided a stereo mix to a backup recorder, and I think a monitor return from that backup to check it was working too.  Sadly, it has sat in my recording bag unused for a few years now since I more or less retired from the recording scene.  Can't bring myself to part with my gear, though!

Offline audBall

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #443 on: November 25, 2018, 03:51:56 PM »
I followed this route and received the items today, swapped the M tip on the cable to reverse the polarity and the R44 powered on just fine.  The connectors were jostled and rotated with no power loss. 

The downside of course is the 6 ft cable and our resident cable makers can surely produce a more robust and customized solution, but this seems to work for now.  More tests to follow.   

Photos of cable and battery setup:  1, 2

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MF70BPU/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


I ran a battery run time test using the above Talentcell powering setup and two pairs of microphones.

Setup:  AKG CK61 > Naiant couplings, PFAs; and AKG CK77 (aka c577) > stock phantom adaptors
4 channels x 48v phantom power, 24bit / 48kHz, R-44 (oade concert) gain set on outer rings to 10-11, center knobs at 12

At approximately 1 hour of recording, the Talentcell battery dropped from 4 green lights to 3.
At approximately 5.5 hours of recording, the battery dropped from 3 green lights to 2.
At approximately 11 hours of recording, the battery dropped from 2 green lights to 1.
At approximately 11.5 hours of recording, the final green light turned off and I stopped the recording.

As for power draw, the CK61 specs say 2 mA.  Does anyone know about the couplings and PFAs? 

The ck77/c577 combined specs say 0.6 mA, but I suspect it could be a bit more with the phantom adaptor.  As a comparison (?), the DPA 4061 specs show a draw of 1.5 mA, but 3.5 mA with the phantom adaptor. 

Offline detroit lightning

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #444 on: December 07, 2018, 08:29:50 AM »
Ran all four channels last night for the first time & learned a valuable lesson. Well, two, actually. Figuring how to switch to 4CH or 2x2stereo on the fly...not the most user friendly experience! Oh well, it worked out fine.

More importantly, I'd been using regular eneloops the first few times I used it since I was only using 2 channels and it had worked fine. 4CH...not so much. Guess I need to figure out how to use that battery pack!

Offline DSatz

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #445 on: December 08, 2018, 05:11:19 PM »
One of the good things about the R-44 is that it seamlessly switches between internal and external powering while you record. I tested this at home before relying on it for any actual recording situations. It's a feature that even some professional equipment doesn't have. So if you have almost any old set of internal batteries in the recorder, you can switch external batteries any time you want, without having to hurry too much, and without interrupting the recording or putting glitches into the audio signal.
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Offline Elguapo511

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #446 on: December 09, 2018, 09:29:07 PM »

R-44 numbers the files it creates 1.WAV, 2.WAV etc.  Each WAV contains either a single monophonic channel, 2 interleaved channels (stereo), or 4 interleaved channels (in a single polyphonic file), depending on how you setup the recorder.

[edit- if using 2-channel stereo files, 1.WAV = chs 1&2 and 2.WAV = chs 3&4]

If I am reacording a small stage and close micing two amps and an overhead with a dynamic omni, and once single mono soundboard.... how should I set up the recorder?

4 interleaved channels?     The omnis are set up in a triangle, and as I mentioned close miced... but they do catch a little of everything since they are omnis, so it can make a nice stereo.

or does it  matter, will four mono channels do th esame?

Offline morst

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #447 on: December 10, 2018, 12:56:13 AM »
I'd go with 4x mono for that application. Easier to mix and longer time before file splits.
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Offline DSatz

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #448 on: December 10, 2018, 10:28:12 AM »
For very long recordings / recordings made at high sampling rates, a file that combines multiple tracks will reach 2 GB sooner than a group of single-channel files would do. Some audio software has 2 GB as the limit for any one file, so that can be a consideration.

Other than that, though, it's your free choice, based on your particular editing software and how it handles sound files. The way you group your tracks will matter mainly to the software operations that you intend or expect to carry out, so think ahead to that situation, and that should tell you what choices are best.

For example, for operas that I used to record in a gloomy old wonderful sounding downtown church that we're unfortunately no longer allowed to use, I flew a main stereo pair of microphones from a central overhead location, and put two spot mikes spaced very widely apart on stage. I recorded the signals from the main stereo pair as a two-channel WAV file. The signals from the spot mikes needed to be "panned" into positions some fraction of the way between center and left or center and right respectively.

For my particular software (Adobe "Audition"), in order to do that panning, it would have been most convenient to record the spot tracks as two separate, mono WAV files. However, the R-44 doesn't offer that choice, so I recorded them as a (second) combined, two-channel WAV file, then split that into two separate tracks in Audition. So the eventual multi-channel mix was made from one stereo file and two mono files.

The combined four-channel WAV format is one that I've frankly never used or even tried. A lot of software can't open WAV files with more than two channels, and while recording, the file would run up against the 2 GB threshold twice as soon as a pair of two-channel files.

--best regards
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 03:27:11 PM by DSatz »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: edirol/roland r-44 (part five)
« Reply #449 on: December 10, 2018, 11:21:01 AM »
The only potential advantages I can see in using the 4-channel WAV format is that it keeps all channels "bundled" in a single file and assures sample-level time alignment of all channels in the file upon import to software which is capable of recognizing the format.

That said, I've never used it, even for 4-channel ambisonic-microphone recording for which it would be most applicable (for me).  It's not overly difficult to make sure the beginning of all files are aligned in the editor using the appropriate "snap-to" settings.

Single channel and 2-channel stereo WAVs are universally supported, and more flexible.

Note: The Sound Devices WaveAgent software (free download from SD site) can be used to split and join mono/stereo/poly WAV files when necessary to do so without using an editor, but best to choose the format which works best prior to recording and avoid the complication IMO.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

 

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