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Author Topic: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!  (Read 13113 times)

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Offline scoper

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New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« on: May 31, 2012, 03:50:14 PM »
I've just ordered the new preamp Chris has been talking about - the size of the UGLY, but with actual knobs for gain stage (six position selectable) and L/R trim. He's anticipating a six week build time plus shipping back to me, so hopefully I'll see it at the end of July or so.

Look for a full gear review once I've received it! This will be used along with either my ATU853 cardioids or Countryman B3 omnis and the Edirol R-09HR. Once I get it and test it, my SP preamp will hit the Yard Sale for a GREAT price!

Scott
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Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2012, 02:54:19 AM »
I am in the market for a pre-amp I can stealth with, and I'm very interested in this product.  I was considering the CA-9200, but now I'm holding back until i can obtain more information on this latest device, which could be perfect for my needs.

Looking forward to your report, and would very much appreciate photos, too.
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Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2012, 01:36:55 PM »
Well, like I said it'll be a couple of months before I get it, and then I have to find a show I want to go to, so it will be a while, by which time this thread will be LONG buried. If I can figure out how, I will include pix. On the other hand, once it's built I'm sure Chris himself will start threads about it.
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Offline acidjack

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 03:17:29 PM »
Anyone want to wager on whether this or the AKG actives see the light of day first?   ;)
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Offline aaronji

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2012, 04:06:56 PM »
^^^ What sort of odds are you giving?  :)

Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2012, 05:08:21 PM »
Anyone want to wager on whether this or the AKG actives see the light of day first?   ;)

Are you suggesting I shouldn't have taken the bait?
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2012, 09:29:03 PM »
i'm not too knowledgeable on the status of the AKG active project, but i've had some experience with Church Audio.  'nuff said.

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2012, 09:39:39 AM »
Both orders are shipping out this week sorry for the delays. I needed to get my 3.5 mm jacks with build in spst switch. Now that I have everything these will ship out by mid week this coming week!
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Offline bobstammers

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2012, 09:53:13 AM »
Woohoo I'm assuming the other one is mine then. Its first proper outing with me won't be until the end of September though. Will also give report back once roadtested.
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2012, 05:47:08 PM »
Anyone want to wager on whether this or the AKG actives see the light of day first?   ;)

Even though I missed the boat to reply on this, I'm willing to bet the second coming of Chr*st will happen sooner than the AKG actives project so my money would've have been on Chris.  :)

Offline pongagt

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2012, 08:53:59 PM »
Woohoo I'm assuming the other one is mine then. Its first proper outing with me won't be until the end of September though. Will also give report back once roadtested.
I figure that is what is holding up my CA9200 that i ordered around a month ago. 

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2012, 11:54:31 AM »
The new Ugly II Preamp. The gain switch has a small knob on it that is 0.470 Inches tall by 0.413 inches wide. Very tiny in the pictures the knob looks huge. The gain switch is the same part that is used in the 9200 its a locking rotary switch with military quality. That can not be turned by accident. The new price for this preamp is $200 its very time consuming to build. And it has the same performance specs as the 9200 except no high pass filter. Other than that its the same exact preamp using the same exact parts. The preamp is the same size as the ugly except for the gain control. I put it on the side because this preamp is designed to sit in a pocket with the inputs up and the gain on the side. Again the gain can not be turned by accident. There are two trimmers that can be used for left and right balance so that mics that are not well matched can be matched for output. Gain settings are 0db +10 +15 +25 + 30 + 40 db of gain.
Power on and off is via the mic input. Plug the mics in the preamp powers up. The preamp also has a low brightness led for confirmation of power.
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Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #12 on: August 10, 2012, 08:12:03 PM »
I'm waiting on receiving mine for a full review, but I have a question, Chris... you had advertised this as having fully adjustable gain WITHOUT TOOLS - in the picture, it appears that the L/R adjustment will require a screwdriver, which makes it unusable for my purposes. Please explain.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #13 on: August 10, 2012, 08:55:19 PM »
I'm waiting on receiving mine for a full review, but I have a question, Chris... you had advertised this as having fully adjustable gain WITHOUT TOOLS - in the picture, it appears that the L/R adjustment will require a screwdriver, which makes it unusable for my purposes. Please explain.

I think the big knob, on the left in the photo, is for the gain.  The small pots are for equalizing the differences between the two mics [EDIT: which only needs to be done once for a given pair of mics]:

<snip>
There are two trimmers that can be used for left and right balance so that mics that are not well matched can be matched for output. Gain settings are 0db +10 +15 +25 + 30 + 40 db of gain.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2012, 08:58:29 PM by aaronji »

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2012, 09:02:04 PM »
I'm waiting on receiving mine for a full review, but I have a question, Chris... you had advertised this as having fully adjustable gain WITHOUT TOOLS - in the picture, it appears that the L/R adjustment will require a screwdriver, which makes it unusable for my purposes. Please explain.
The knob on the left is the gain 6 positions, the two blue trimmers are only used for fine tuning left and right for matching your mics. And only needs to be set once. And yes you need tools for that but not for the gain setting.
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Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2012, 07:07:00 AM »
I'm in.

E-mail sent.
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Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2012, 08:04:06 AM »
OK, that's clearer... thanks. Looking forward to the next couple of weeks to receive it, then I have to go find a show to use it with!
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Offline Chuck

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2012, 12:05:37 PM »
Wow, that's small & appropriately named!  ;D Good job Chris!
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2012, 11:16:57 PM »
Looks like a nice little piece of technology, and for $200, it's still a bargain.   I'm gonna be good with my ugly battery box and/or 9100 for the time being.  :)

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2012, 12:33:43 PM »
So it is still going to be a stepped gain (instead of adjustable gain on the fly for making minor adjustments)?
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2012, 01:53:08 PM »
It adds the easily field-adjustable global stepped gain adjustment to the existing un-stepped independent channel-trimming gain pots.

That means you can calibrate and set your gains any way you like beforehand using a combination of those three controls, yet adds the ability to make quick and easy on-the-fly in 5-10dB stepped adjustments if necessary while recording, confidently, without even looking at it.  And doing so will not upset the channel balance.  It's an excellent configuration for the intended applications of this preamp.  Non-stepped but easily adjustable gain control is more at home on a larger preamp with different intended applications, and something I personally would not want on this preamp.
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Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2012, 03:03:30 PM »
Since I'll be receiving it (presumably) in the next week or so, it's time for the "proper usage" discussion.

Countryman B3 Omni (4.7K sensitivity modded) > CA-UGLY II > Line In > R-09HR. I usually record 24 bit/44.1.

Based on my scanning other threads, it looks like I should set the R-09HR at "unity gain" of 38-40, and set the preamp gain appropriately for the concert setting, then use the gain control on the R-09HR for minor adjustments if needed. My inclination would be to set it the preamp so that peaks never get past -10 or so, and then add the rest in post.

I had a different preamp, where it was recommended that I set the R-09HR at MAXIMUM gain and use the preamp to set the levels, so I'm a little confused. I trust the assembled experience of the experts here for the proper answer.

So here we go... all opinions are welcome!

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Offline bryonsos

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2012, 03:12:35 PM »
Since I'll be receiving it (presumably) in the next week or so, it's time for the "proper usage" discussion.

Countryman B3 Omni (4.7K sensitivity modded) > CA-UGLY II > Line In > R-09HR. I usually record 24 bit/44.1.

Based on my scanning other threads, it looks like I should set the R-09HR at "unity gain" of 38-40, and set the preamp gain appropriately for the concert setting, then use the gain control on the R-09HR for minor adjustments if needed. My inclination would be to set it the preamp so that peaks never get past -10 or so, and then add the rest in post.

I had a different preamp, where it was recommended that I set the R-09HR at MAXIMUM gain and use the preamp to set the levels, so I'm a little confused. I trust the assembled experience of the experts here for the proper answer.

So here we go... all opinions are welcome!

Yes, this is the proper approach regardless of your gear. Set the recorder at unity (not maximum, that was shitty advice!), use the pre to get things dialed in, and make a nice tape. I have an Ugly and 2.2k B3s and they rock! I think you'll be pleased.
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Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2012, 04:40:48 PM »
It adds the easily field-adjustable global stepped gain adjustment to the existing un-stepped independent channel-trimming gain pots.

That means you can calibrate and set your gains any way you like beforehand using a combination of those three controls, yet adds the ability to make quick and easy on-the-fly in 5-10dB stepped adjustments if necessary while recording, confidently, without even looking at it.  And doing so will not upset the channel balance.  It's an excellent configuration for the intended applications of this preamp.  Non-stepped but easily adjustable gain control is more at home on a larger preamp with different intended applications, and something I personally would not want on this preamp.

This.

Stepped gain is much more practical in a stealth situation, which is this preamp's intended use.

Looking forward to receiving mine.
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2012, 05:02:01 PM »
It adds the easily field-adjustable global stepped gain adjustment to the existing un-stepped independent channel-trimming gain pots.

That means you can calibrate and set your gains any way you like beforehand using a combination of those three controls, yet adds the ability to make quick and easy on-the-fly in 5-10dB stepped adjustments if necessary while recording, confidently, without even looking at it.  And doing so will not upset the channel balance.  It's an excellent configuration for the intended applications of this preamp.  Non-stepped but easily adjustable gain control is more at home on a larger preamp with different intended applications, and something I personally would not want on this preamp.

This.

Stepped gain is much more practical in a stealth situation, which is this preamp's intended use.

Looking forward to receiving mine.

Interesting perspective.  I stealth a lot and would actually prefer an adjustable gain as opposed to stepped gain.  To each their own I guess.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2012, 05:18:02 PM »
I assume you are recording into the M10 listed in your signature, Cheesy.  Why not make the fine-grained adjustments you want via the smoothy variable input gain control knob on that recorder?
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #26 on: August 15, 2012, 05:21:55 PM »
For low-pro taping, the preference should actually be fixed, non-adjustable gain. Every knob or switch added to a device is simply another potential point of failure.

I understand that folks want flexibility for a variety of recording situations, but take a look at nbox/rmod users. Fixed gain seems to have worked out pretty well for them, provided their recorder can sufficiently handle a hot signal on the line input. The only difference I see here is that an nbox can only be used with microphones of a known sensitivity whereas a preamp with an 1/8" input could be used with microphones of varying sensitivity.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 05:24:23 PM by hi and lo »

Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #27 on: August 15, 2012, 05:26:20 PM »
I assume you are recording into the M10 listed in your signature, Cheesy.  Why not make the fine-grained adjustments you want via the smoothy variable input gain control knob on that recorder?

Again, this.

It's difficult, in a stealth situation, to fine-tune a preamp and watch the levels on your M10 at the same time.
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Offline hi and lo

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #28 on: August 15, 2012, 05:37:24 PM »
I assume you are recording into the M10 listed in your signature, Cheesy.  Why not make the fine-grained adjustments you want via the smoothy variable input gain control knob on that recorder?

Again, this.

It's difficult, in a stealth situation, to fine-tune a preamp and watch the levels on your M10 at the same time.

That's because "stealth" and "fine-tune" really don't belong in the same sentence.

Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #29 on: August 15, 2012, 06:48:07 PM »
The CA-UGLY-II preamp came today - I haven't even had a chance to look at it, and won't be able to for several hours - expect a partial report later... partial, in that I won't be able to test it in any way until tomorrow.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2012, 07:02:37 PM »
Congratulations scoper, and you too Chris!
 :cheers:

The only difference I see here is that an nbox can only be used with microphones of a known sensitivity whereas a preamp with an 1/8" input could be used with microphones of varying sensitivity.

Bingo.

And that leads me to a question for Chris:

Good Mr. Church, what is the relationship between the adjustment pots and the stepped gain control?  Do the adjustment pots simply attenuate whatever nominal gain setting is selected on the stepped control?

If so, can you confirm my thinking here:
With the pots set fully clockwise, the actual gain ranges through the preamp selectable by the stepped control would be: 0, +10, +15, +25, +30, +40dB (which you posted above).. but if the pots were turned counter-clockwise to attenuate both channels by say -10dB, the actual gain range through the preamp would then be: -10, 0, +5, +15, +20, +30dB?

Is that correct?
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2012, 07:11:38 PM »
^^^^^
I'm hoping that's the case.  Why? Basically because of hi and lo’s observation on accommodating various mic sensitivities.  Many around here are using less sensitive mics with UGLYs, but a some like myself will run DPA 4060s into this preamp and the 4060s are a good bit more sensitive than most other small mics at 20 mV/Pa (re 1V/Pa). I'm usually recording less than ear-splitting material were I want gain through the UGLYs, but to avoid overloading the recorder input with really loud amplified  stuff I sometimes only want the UGLYs to power the mics without adding any gain.  In that case I adjust the pots way down to get something close to unity gain through the preamp- yeah, I know that's not the best way to run them and I could/should just use battery boxes in that situation.  But the point is that a bit of attenuation would actually be welcome for those situations and something like an effective range of -10, 0, +5, +15, +20, +30dB with the pots dialed back by -10dB would mean I could record most anything from knat farts to rocket launches with the same 4060 > UGLY2 > DR-2d rig, despite the limited useful range of gain adjustment on the DR2d’s line input.. and that would be a super win!
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Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2012, 11:44:08 PM »
Sometime tomorrow I'll test this with music, probably by blasting my car stereo with me in it in a remote corner of a parking lot or something, but some initial impressions...

Form factor: this is a little bigger than 2 9V batteries stacked on top of each other, per the picture. I'm more used to something longer and flatter, so it will take some getting used to in a real-life situation. I record with my gear in a fanny pack, so just orienting the components so they're easily handled is the issue.

L/R trim "knobs" - these are recessed about 1/2" below the surface of the unit, and are VERY tiny - I'm not yet sure what kind of tool I'll need to adjust this, but since it's a one time (per mic set) adjustment it's not a big deal.

Mic in/out - this will really require 90 degree plugs to be practical - otherwise the plugs will make it unbalanced and pretty bulky (for its size)

Gain selection knob is pretty stiff, will likely loosen up some with use. As expected.

These are all really nit picking. The preamp will do its job in a size of a battery box, and should be a big hit. It does live up to the UGLY name, but I didn't pay for looks.

My next recording opportunity (non critical) is a perfect test for this unit - a (very) small hall (about 200 seats), recording an amplified acoustic act - exactly the kind of show I need the preamp for.

In the meantime, I'll do some testing in the car and report back in a day or so.

Thanks, Chris - this was a very smooth transaction, with good communication at every step - when delays came up, he told me about them before I asked. The six week build turned into ten when  some critical parts couldn't be obtained from his usual supplier, but since he let me know as soon as he found out, no strikes on him for that.
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Offline bobstammers

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #33 on: August 20, 2012, 03:29:36 PM »
Mine came today as promised. Successfully avoided customs into the UK as well, a first for me with the previous 4 transactions!

Won't be tried and tested for another couple of weeks but will report back then.

Thanks Chris for a seamless transaction.
Mics        : Naiant AKG CK63 Actives, DPA 4061, SP-CMC-25, CA11c, CA11 IIo,CA14c, CA14o, CAFS, AT933 (4.7k)
Pre         : Tinybox, PIPSqueak, CA9100, Ugly II pre, CA Ugly II 3 wire pre
Batt Box : MM-CBM-Mini
Decks     : H340 rockboxed, R09HR, M10 x 2

Offline scoper

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2012, 03:59:24 PM »
My first "live" test of the preamp will come Friday... I've tried it out in the car and it works as promised, so I don't anticipate any issues.

In venues where I'm familiar with the sound, it should be set and forget -- other place will require a little more monitoring initially as I search for the correct amount of gain. I'll have to get used to the step increments, as they're not linear across the spectrum of adjustments.

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2012, 04:15:48 PM »
My first "live" test of the preamp will come Friday... I've tried it out in the car and it works as promised, so I don't anticipate any issues.

In venues where I'm familiar with the sound, it should be set and forget -- other place will require a little more monitoring initially as I search for the correct amount of gain. I'll have to get used to the step increments, as they're not linear across the spectrum of adjustments.

So, Scoper, how did the Ugly II treat you in your first real-world tryout?

I'm sure many of us are curious.  TIA!

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2012, 11:09:51 AM »
The UGLY-II performed exactly as expected during my first use of it - it's easy to set up and very low profile, which works well for my needs.

I recommend getting right-angle terminators on your input/output cables - it will make everything easier.

I still find it odd that the stepped gain knob isn't linear - 0,10,15,25,30,40 ... 5db in some spots, 10 in others. If your sweet spot is +20, for example, this won't zero it in.

All of that said, I may have been better off with the CA-9200, which is bigger but also has a trim knob for fine tuning. I want to be able to set my recorder (R-09HR) at unity and then lock it, doing ALL adjustments through the preamp. The digital gain adjustment on the Edirol is pretty noisy.

So it's a nice unit, but I'm not sure it's perfect for me. My next recording will be the polar opposite of the last one - in a stadium setting 2/3 of a football field away, in 3 weeks. I'll keep you posted.
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2012, 05:01:30 PM »

I still find it odd that the stepped gain knob isn't linear - 0,10,15,25,30,40 ... 5db in some spots, 10 in others. If your sweet spot is +20, for example, this won't zero it in.

All of that said, I may have been better off with the CA-9200, which is bigger but also has a trim knob for fine tuning. I want to be able to set my recorder (R-09HR) at unity and then lock it, doing ALL adjustments through the preamp. The digital gain adjustment on the Edirol is pretty noisy.


I think Chris set the gain knob the way he did because he feels +15 is perfect for loud rock and +20 would have a chance of causing the pre to clip (the pre doesn't have a clip indicator, so if you clip the pre you won't find out until you've finished the recording). For quieter stuff you can go louder than +20 (he generally recommends +30 or +35 for acoustic) so he probably felt a +20 setting isn't necessary. The +40 is probably there for nature sounds.

If you sell the Ugly and have Chris build you a CA-9200, it is possible he could do custom gain settings of your choosing. If you want the +20, perhaps he could replace the +25 with +20. It would be worth asking him.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2012, 02:04:51 PM »
I still find it odd that the stepped gain knob isn't linear - 0,10,15,25,30,40 ... 5db in some spots, 10 in others. If your sweet spot is +20, for example, this won't zero it in.

I agree it would be nice to have uniform steps, but pretty sure the step values are tied to commonly available resistor values, so it may not be easy for him to do that.  Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Chris set the gain knob the way he did because he feels +15 is perfect for loud rock and +20 would have a chance of causing the pre to clip (the pre doesn't have a clip indicator, so if you clip the pre you won't find out until you've finished the recording). For quieter stuff you can go louder than +20 (he generally recommends +30 or +35 for acoustic) so he probably felt a +20 setting isn't necessary. The +40 is probably there for nature sounds.

That's completely dependent on the sensitivity of the mics being used.  Unless he specified a particular mic, those sugested figures are completely meaningless.


Chris are you reading this thread? Can you answer the question I posted a couple weeks back, about 7 posts above: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155972.msg1987825#msg1987825


Thanks!
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Offline fmaderjr

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2012, 03:52:18 PM »

I think Chris set the gain knob the way he did because he feels +15 is perfect for loud rock and +20 would have a chance of causing the pre to clip (the pre doesn't have a clip indicator, so if you clip the pre you won't find out until you've finished the recording). For quieter stuff you can go louder than +20 (he generally recommends +30 or +35 for acoustic) so he probably felt a +20 setting isn't necessary. The +40 is probably there for nature sounds.

That's completely dependent on the sensitivity of the mics being used.  Unless he specified a particular mic, those sugested figures are completely meaningless.


You're right of course. I should have mentioned that I assume he meant the above recommended settings for use with his mics that are low sensitivity due to the 4.7 mod. If so they wouldn't apply to your DPA 4060's of course, but might work well with 4.7 modded AT853's and possibly DPA 4061's.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2012, 03:54:03 PM by fmaderjr »
AT853's (all caps)/CM-300 Franken Naks (CP-1,2,3)/JBMod Nak 700's (CP-701,702) > Tascam DR-680
Or Sonic Studios DSM-6 > M10

Offline Church-Audio

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #40 on: September 09, 2012, 07:11:30 AM »
I still find it odd that the stepped gain knob isn't linear - 0,10,15,25,30,40 ... 5db in some spots, 10 in others. If your sweet spot is +20, for example, this won't zero it in.

I agree it would be nice to have uniform steps, but pretty sure the step values are tied to commonly available resistor values, so it may not be easy for him to do that.  Chris, please correct me if I'm wrong.

I think Chris set the gain knob the way he did because he feels +15 is perfect for loud rock and +20 would have a chance of causing the pre to clip (the pre doesn't have a clip indicator, so if you clip the pre you won't find out until you've finished the recording). For quieter stuff you can go louder than +20 (he generally recommends +30 or +35 for acoustic) so he probably felt a +20 setting isn't necessary. The +40 is probably there for nature sounds.

That's completely dependent on the sensitivity of the mics being used.  Unless he specified a particular mic, those sugested figures are completely meaningless.


Chris are you reading this thread? Can you answer the question I posted a couple weeks back, about 7 posts above: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=155972.msg1987825#msg1987825


Thanks!
No actually these resistor values are not common but when you only have 6 steps you can't do 5 db increments and go from 0 db to 40 :) you would have to jump by 10s or a combination like I did. and these numbers are based on
my mics in real concert situations. these gain steps work for my mics in a variety of situations. for dpa mics you will use less gain. for modified countryman mics this will work correctly for modified AT mics this will also work correctly.
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2012, 12:01:57 PM »
Thanks for the clarification.

What is the relationship between the adjustment pots and the stepped gain control?  Do the adjustment pots simply attenuate whatever nominal gain setting is selected on the stepped control?

If so, can you confirm my thinking here:
With the pots set fully clockwise, the actual gain ranges through the preamp selectable by the stepped control would be: 0, +10, +15, +25, +30, +40dB (which you posted above).. but if the pots were turned counter-clockwise to attenuate both channels by say -10dB, the actual gain range through the preamp would then be: -10, 0, +5, +15, +20, +30dB?

Is that correct?
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #42 on: September 10, 2012, 01:25:40 AM »
Thanks for the clarification.

What is the relationship between the adjustment pots and the stepped gain control?  Do the adjustment pots simply attenuate whatever nominal gain setting is selected on the stepped control?

If so, can you confirm my thinking here:
With the pots set fully clockwise, the actual gain ranges through the preamp selectable by the stepped control would be: 0, +10, +15, +25, +30, +40dB (which you posted above).. but if the pots were turned counter-clockwise to attenuate both channels by say -10dB, the actual gain range through the preamp would then be: -10, 0, +5, +15, +20, +30dB?

Is that correct?

The pots control the output of the preamp and they go from 00 to the gain setting of the preamp. So they can be used as attenuation for camera connections. Or to balance the left and right for mics other then mine that are not well matched.
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2012, 09:44:37 AM »
Thanks Chris, that's what I was hoping to hear.  That makes it a good match with the DR2d as well as cameras, since it can attenuate the output as necessary. 

I think it's about time for me to send you an email about placing and order.
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Offline Church-Audio

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #44 on: November 01, 2012, 05:54:29 PM »
I have just redesigned the Ugly II preamp This is what is now looks like. All functions are on one side. So that adjustments and cables all flow in one direction. This allows it to sit in a pocket comfortably.
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Offline emcdos

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2012, 02:15:38 PM »

so, it seems that with this new design, right angle cables would be even much more interesting... or am I wrong?...


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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2012, 02:32:07 PM »
You dont want to use R/A Connectors with any of my preamps they are  unnecessary. The 9000 series of preamps are all designed to sit in a pocket so that all controls and inputs / outputs are on the top where they are less likely to be disturbed. The ugly series are now designed so that the preamp will sit in a pocket and all inputs / outputs will be pointed towards the opening of a pocket. That way the knob act as protection for the inputs. And its more ergonomic. If you have controls sticking out all over the place its silly. With a right angle connector your connector actually sticks out to the side where side forces can cause damage to the input jack. 3.5 MM Input jacks are fine with force that straight but not fine with side to side forces. The R.A jacks will always move around and are more likely to become unplugged. This is not an issue when plugging right into a recorder that has a side input jack. But not fine for my preamp that has jacks mounted on the top not sides. You can purchase a 3.5 mm straight to R/A connector patch cord for your Church Audio preamp for $24.00. I hope that makes sense.

Chris
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2012, 06:53:58 PM »

I see Chris,... I misinterpreted the picture. Thanks for the clarification....
I can´t wait for my Ugly II... ;)

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2012, 10:16:37 PM »
Nice Job Chris on the redesign of the Ugly II Preamp with level adjustment, input, output and led on the one side.  That's a nice touch and makes this something very useful to many of us.  It will also prefer to sit in a camera case/pouch with a recorder that way.  Also love the fact that the noise floor is equal to the 9200 (and better than the 9100).   

Thanks for continuing to put out fine products.

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2012, 11:05:36 PM »
Just got my newly acquired ca14cards and 9100 from Spain today. Running 9v battery tests to see how long a 9v will run the 9100. Anyone already know? Sorry for the high jack,
Recording Rigs:
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/0 KCY's ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 2x 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Rigs:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado | Westone (2nd Generation) UM Pro 30 IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax |  2x CA/ALO SPC Litz | Sony MUC-M2BT1 LDAC MMCX Cables ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2012, 11:11:28 PM »
Just got my newly acquired ca14cards and 9100 from Spain today. Running 9v battery tests to see how long a 9v will run the 9100. Anyone already know? Sorry for the high jack,
And so you should be. :P

Umm... I think you were talking about this exact thing not too long ago:   :facepalm:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152802.msg1934602#msg1934602

I've used Energizer Industrial 9V's for over 40 hours and still had about 65-70% charge (I wouldn't push anything for our uses past that) so I believe it's around 35-40 hours.  The Ugly Battery Box is around 90 hours (!!!) and I'm not sure about the Ugly Preamp I/II -- maybe Chris can post something on that.

Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #51 on: December 04, 2012, 02:19:34 PM »
Nice Job Chris on the redesign of the Ugly II Preamp with level adjustment, input, output and led on the one side.  That's a nice touch and makes this something very useful to many of us.  It will also prefer to sit in a camera case/pouch with a recorder that way.

I've had the redesigned Ugly II for a few weeks now, and used it several times.  The new layout works well, but I find the overall shape of the preamp to be almost cubic, which means it tends to stick out of one's trouser pocket quite prominently, and into one's leg at the same time.  I'll get used to it.

Performance-wise, I'm pleased with the product.
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #52 on: December 04, 2012, 02:40:31 PM »
I've had the redesigned Ugly II for a few weeks now, and used it several times.  The new layout works well, but I find the overall shape of the preamp to be almost cubic, which means it tends to stick out of one's trouser pocket quite prominently, and into one's leg at the same time.  I'll get used to it.

Try a small camera pouch/case for the recorder and battery box.  Easier than putting it in your pocket and dealing with it that way.  :)

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #53 on: December 04, 2012, 02:42:55 PM »
I think a camera case might attract more attention at the clubs I stealth in than the large bulge in my trousers.  People around here are used to that.
Stepeanut: "Unless something else turns up, I'd say you've made the pull of the tour."
 
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #54 on: December 04, 2012, 03:29:46 PM »
I've had the redesigned Ugly II for a few weeks now, and used it several times.  The new layout works well, but I find the overall shape of the preamp to be almost cubic, which means it tends to stick out of one's trouser pocket quite prominently, and into one's leg at the same time.  I'll get used to it.

Performance-wise, I'm pleased with the product.

Have you used the older-style Ugly?  Is the new one thicker overall or pretty much the same in terms of 'trouser bulge?

Perhaps an anatomically correct casing is the answer.  ;)
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rodeen

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2012, 03:35:48 PM »
Gives a whole new meaning to the "Ugly"!
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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #56 on: December 04, 2012, 03:50:23 PM »
Just got my newly acquired ca14cards and 9100 from Spain today. Running 9v battery tests to see how long a 9v will run the 9100. Anyone already know? Sorry for the high jack,
And so you should be. :P

Umm... I think you were talking about this exact thing not too long ago:   :facepalm:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=152802.msg1934602#msg1934602

I've used Energizer Industrial 9V's for over 40 hours and still had about 65-70% charge (I wouldn't push anything for our uses past that) so I believe it's around 35-40 hours.  The Ugly Battery Box is around 90 hours (!!!) and I'm not sure about the Ugly Preamp I/II -- maybe Chris can post something on that.

Thanks Adrian! I am using Energizer Max 9v's ;) Running tests now!
Recording Rigs:
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/0 KCY's ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 2x 64gb Ultra Plus

Portable Playback Rigs:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado | Westone (2nd Generation) UM Pro 30 IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax |  2x CA/ALO SPC Litz | Sony MUC-M2BT1 LDAC MMCX Cables ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5 Processor/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2012, 03:50:44 PM »
Beauty is in the pants of the beholder.
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Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2012, 04:04:16 PM »
I've had the redesigned Ugly II for a few weeks now, and used it several times.  The new layout works well, but I find the overall shape of the preamp to be almost cubic, which means it tends to stick out of one's trouser pocket quite prominently, and into one's leg at the same time.  I'll get used to it.

Performance-wise, I'm pleased with the product.

Have you used the older-style Ugly?  Is the new one thicker overall or pretty much the same in terms of 'trouser bulge?

Perhaps an anatomically correct casing is the answer.  ;)

No, this is my first time bumping Uglies.
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adrianf74

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #59 on: December 04, 2012, 04:05:58 PM »
Image of the new Ugly looks much like the old one but it is a little awkward to "pocket."  That's why I use the camera pouch: problem solved.

Offline stepeanut

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2012, 04:08:39 PM »
Luckily, security here isn't too strict.

Stepeanut: "Unless something else turns up, I'd say you've made the pull of the tour."
 
Yousef: "That's kind of you to say, but it does feel like winning first prize in a turd-photographing contest."

adrianf74

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #61 on: December 24, 2012, 03:21:26 PM »
So, pulled the trigger on the Ugly II Preamp today. 

For most shows I go to, it's nice to run a battery box only but figured having this preamp is more or less the same as a battery box and isn't that much bigger at the end of the day.  Figured for times like the last show I was at (where I had to run the M10 at 9.5 or 10 with the AT853's) and only get peaks of around -12dB, the Ugly II Preamp made sense to have.  Now I can choose what to bring depending on the show. :)


Cancel that.  I should modify this as I jumped on the CA-9200 deal for New Year's.  As much as the CA-Ugly II is a nice piece of technology, the form factor isn't that much smaller than the 9200 at the end of the day.  I can get either piece of equipment into a show with ease (consdiering I came from the days of a TCD-D7 with CSBs or a WMD-D3 analog pro walkman). 

The Ugly II is awesome.  Just couldn't resist the package deal on the CA-9200's...
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 03:20:25 PM by adrianf »

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #62 on: December 24, 2012, 06:10:33 PM »
I've been using mine for a few months now, and I really like it. After not really understading Chris' choice of gain steps, I must say he knows what he's doing - the lower amplifications are perfect for loud rock shows, the higher ones for acoustic or nature. I've used it in both loud and soft situations with great success!

With a good, consistent recorder setting it's a "set and forget" situation, which is great for non-obvious taping solutions.
AT853U cardioid (low sens mod)| Countryman B3 Omni (low sens mod) > CA-UGLY II > Sony PCM-M10

Former: Sony MiniDisc/JB3/MicroTrack/R-09HR

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #63 on: December 24, 2012, 06:21:55 PM »
I've been using mine for a few months now, and I really like it. After not really understading Chris' choice of gain steps, I must say he knows what he's doing - the lower amplifications are perfect for loud rock shows, the higher ones for acoustic or nature. I've used it in both loud and soft situations with great success!

With a good, consistent recorder setting it's a "set and forget" situation, which is great for non-obvious taping solutions.
Thank you very much. I know they don't sound like something anyone would choose but they are based on my mics in real world recording situations with me mixing shows. From loud shows in clubs and arenas and quiet jazz gigs. To outdoor shows.

Merry Xmas

Chris
for warranty returns email me at
EMAIL Sales@church-audio.com

adrianf74

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Re: New Church Audio Preamp - I'm the guinea pig!
« Reply #64 on: December 24, 2012, 07:18:59 PM »
Thank you very much. I know they don't sound like something anyone would choose but they are based on my mics in real world recording situations with me mixing shows. From loud shows in clubs and arenas and quiet jazz gigs. To outdoor shows.

Merry Xmas

Chris, that's the beauty in what you do -- you know what we need as "odd" as the settings might be.   Looking forward to getting mine to play with in the new year.

Likewise, Merry Christmas and Happy New Years to you and yours.

 

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