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Author Topic: 2 cam mix rendering tips??  (Read 3574 times)

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Offline Chad817

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2 cam mix rendering tips??
« on: March 25, 2004, 10:16:42 PM »
I've got a project coming up next weekend with a friend's band.  We're looking to do a two cam mix.  One cam will be steady on a tripod, centered on a balcony to get a good full band shot.  The other cam will be roaming on the floor.  It's a dance floor so I'll have full access to roam anywhere..even up on the side of the stage if I want.  I've never done a 2 cam mix before, and I'm just wondering how the heck I'm going to get the video synched up.  I wondered if the timecode was standard for all cams...that it might be easiest to try and line the video up this way (for instance...finding the time code where the first song starts on each..and then matching them).  Would this work?  Will there be drift between the two sources I need to worry about like I do with audio?  If so, how do you compensate for that with video?  FWIW I'll be using Vegas 4.0.  

Forgive me if this idea is way off base...I guess I'm looking for any and all tips you guy's have used when making multicam shots
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Offline alan278

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #1 on: March 31, 2004, 09:50:20 AM »
This is easy stuff, especially in vegas.  You should have no problem keeping sync the whole time.  

Easiest if you start both cams and let them run wthout stopping - just for changing tapes.  

You should find that when you lay both tracks on the timeline in vegas, one below the other, you can line them up at one spot and they will remain in sync to the end.  

You can do a rough alignment by video or just listening, but for the precise alignment use the AUDIO waveform.  Expand the timeline maybe to the frame level so you can line up the audio waveforms by eye, easily.  Should stay in sync from start to finish as long as both tapes roll the whole itme.

Offline EkoostikMace

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2004, 11:57:52 PM »
I second that. Vegas is a champ when it comes to synching with the old eyeball. I've got two camera shoots where there are multiple cuts and once I get them all synched with the audio they're obviously synched visually as well. Then you group them together and go to town on the editing.

Good luck!
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Offline Chad817

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2004, 09:43:06 PM »
looks like my project is going to have to wait, other guy couldn't make it out to the show, so I just did a one cam job.  Hopefully next weekend we will try for the 2 cam shot.
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laying around: sp cmc-4, power supply and jb3

Offline EkoostikMace

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2004, 08:39:45 AM »
I've shot about 6 ekoostik hookah shows now (three in Amsterdam - now that's a show!). Me and my partner are getting pretty good at it with our repsective setups.

I'd love to see what you guys come up with after you've done a multi-camera shoot. Our biggest issue is finding a good way to communicate during shows. I usually set up in a balcony or off to a side soas to get a different angle. She is always next to the soundboard for the soundboard feed and full band shot.

Sometimes we both zoom in on the same thing and sometimes we're on different things but in editing, it always works out. We've got some really interesting guitar solo shots since the angles are different.

-K
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Offline Chad817

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2004, 11:23:34 PM »
yeah, the place I was going to do it would have been ideal.  It's a fairly small club with a balcony.  I was planning on having one cam up on the balcony for a good full band shot and some limited pans/zooms.  The other camera was going to be roving on the floor, up to the lip of stage, side stage, maybe even up almost on stage to get some shots looking out into the crowd behind the band.  I know the guys so I'd have full access to do whatever.  I really think it could have turned out nice.  Hopefully they will get a gig there again soon.
studio projects c4 > edirol ua-5 [digi mod] > Microtrack II

laying around: sp cmc-4, power supply and jb3

Offline EkoostikMace

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2004, 01:31:04 PM »
For a taste of what I've been working on with Vegas, Check out this broadband clip of the song Utopia from ekoostik hookah's 3/6/04 show:

http://externalis.com/yurple/WebUtopiaHi.wmv
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Offline dklein

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2004, 10:18:20 PM »
Hey - that's damn fine work!  :clapping:
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Offline EkoostikMace

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2004, 10:38:37 AM »
Hey - that's damn fine work!  :clapping:

Thanks. Now all we need is two more cameras and competent people to run them.  ;D
« Last Edit: April 26, 2004, 10:39:00 AM by EkoostikMace »
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Offline tooldvn

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Re:2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2004, 05:19:05 PM »
I agree, using the audio waveform is the easiest way to go.  I use Premiere to do all my editing. Once you line up the waveforms, its cake! Here are a couple of 4 camera mixes. I like the harder cuts instead of fading, but you get the idea.  

www.dvnaudio.net/vid/

-dvn
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Offline EkoostikMace

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2004, 03:14:11 PM »
Hey... just a quick note... I'm getting a little better at editing effects. Check this out:

http://externalis.com/yurple/Effect.wmv

And we had 5 cameras running at the last major festival of my home grown band. I can't wait to sink my teeth into 5 camera angles and pro-mixed sound!

-K
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Offline Dr.FOB

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2004, 12:47:50 PM »
I also use the audio to sync the video.  My Audio only track goes in first, it's continuous, and is locked.  Then the video tracks are roughly slid into position.  By shifting the balance of the Audio Only track to the left/right and a video track audio balance to the other side I can use the phase difference to precisely match the sync of the two sources, sliding the video track into position while previewing the mix.
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Offline Elvis Hitler

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2004, 09:08:03 PM »
I've been using Vegas and have also found the synching to be easy -- just line up a drum beat or beginning of someone speaking on the audio tracks, and you're set.

EkoostikMace, I may be able to help you film some EH shows if you need filmers in the Columbus area.  I have a Sony VX2100 that's been giving great results, and I taped the band several times a few years ago with Hi-8 cams.

www.angelfire.com/in/videolist/

Offline soccerkid

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need help
« Reply #13 on: September 11, 2004, 12:59:54 PM »
I just got Vegas. I have a 2 camera angles both the same length.  I have the audio sync'd up.

How do you go about blending the two videos? I looked for some help or turtials, but didn't have any luck.

If someone has a link that would great, if not if you could say the easy way to Mix the two angles would be.

Thanks.

Offline EkoostikMace

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2004, 08:03:50 PM »
You need to add a composite tracker. What version of Vegas are you using? In Vegas 5 (and I think 4 as well) it's on the INSERT menu. Turn on TRACK COMPOSITE LEVEL under VIDEO ENVELOPES. Then you just add points along the composite line and fade back and forth.

There are other ways to do it too. The forums at DVInfo.Net are an excellent resource.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/

Good luck!

-K
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Offline soccerkid

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2004, 08:14:42 PM »
i have 5.0

thanks for the info

i'll give it a shot

Offline soccerkid

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more help
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2004, 11:09:44 PM »
i got it set up, got one fade in place.  But can't create another fade.

The one angle starts then fades into the 2nd, but then i can't get it to go back to the first.  any suggestions.

Is there any manuals or informative websites that i can read up on this.  I searched a few forums and didn't have any luck.

any tips, suggestions, or instructions would be very helpful, thanks!!

-Nate

Offline EkoostikMace

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2004, 08:25:22 AM »
You should have a manual with the software that explains composite levels. The forums at DVInfo.Net are excellent (just use the search feature). The help file with Vegas 5 also explains it a bit.

Basically, you just need to keep adding points to the composite line. Then you manipulate the points on the line to do your fades.
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Offline soccerkid

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Re: 2 cam mix rendering tips??
« Reply #18 on: September 18, 2004, 12:39:05 AM »
thanks for the tips

got the demo for Excalbur for Vegas, very nice program!

too bad you can only use it 15 times..

 

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