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Author Topic: on-stage taping  (Read 28274 times)

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Offline Jimna

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #120 on: May 14, 2013, 01:08:56 PM »
oops that was a brain fart, Chuck.  I meant to say dynamics....I fixed it.  sorry about that!
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Online Chuck

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #121 on: May 14, 2013, 02:25:59 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions guys.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline cybergaloot

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #122 on: May 14, 2013, 03:10:53 PM »
I've read that hyper cards are the way to go with audience response mics but I've tried omnis, cards and hyper cards and finally settled on cards with the phase reversed. But I think the choice comes down to the room. Hypers might take some of the boominess out. Omnis, if placed right, might give you some ambiance as well as pick up applause. Too bad you don't have more time to test things to see which would work best in that environment. BTW, watch out for the monitors. You want to avoid picking them up in most cases. No telling what is coming out of them mix-wise.
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Walter

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. Will Rogers


MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
RECORDERS: H2, DR-40, R16, R-44, HD24, DR-2D, DR-44WL, Denon DN-500R
PRES: CA-UGLY, CA-9000, UA-5, Art USB Dual Tube Pre, Focusrite Platinum Octopre (X2)
STUFF: Patchbox I, Patchbox II, ZED-22fx, ZED-24, Soundcraft Si Impact, TOA D-4 + 2X D-4E, M-Audio MobilePre, compressors, Alesis MultiMix 8 Line Mixer 
PLUS: Gaffers tape, lot's of gaffer's tape! And cables, lot's of cables.

Online Chuck

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #123 on: May 14, 2013, 04:01:18 PM »
I'm actually considering running my CK-61 Naiant Actives DIN, three feet off the floor, just in front of the vocal mic but not picking up the monitor, angled slightly up pointing toward the audience. That would eliminate the time delay between the audience mics and the vocal mic. I would reverse the phase of the audience pair in post production.

The stage at this place is wide and deep. Photo's here: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com/images_dogdays.html

The crowd is generally very respectful at this venue. My friend is opening for Junior Brown who is a guitar legend who has this really crazy looking double neck guitar that combines a telecaster with a lap steel! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Brown

I haven't gotten permission to record him yet.  :-\

There are tables in the pit area in front of the stage, but a lot of people actually sit on an upper level further from the stage. This show will have an older crowd. The audience applause in this place sounds wonderful when it's filled up.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline kcmule

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #124 on: May 14, 2013, 04:07:42 PM »
I've read that hyper cards are the way to go with audience response mics but I've tried omnis, cards and hyper cards and finally settled on cards with the phase reversed. But I think the choice comes down to the room. Hypers might take some of the boominess out. Omnis, if placed right, might give you some ambiance as well as pick up applause. Too bad you don't have more time to test things to see which would work best in that environment. BTW, watch out for the monitors. You want to avoid picking them up in most cases. No telling what is coming out of them mix-wise.

I've tried hyper, card, and omni.  I prefer the hypers for my recording venue, but I usually run as many as I have channels for.  Don't have to use them in post, but can be nice to have.  I'll typically run a large card on each side of the stage and a hyper and omni in the middle, just because I can.

Offline cybergaloot

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #125 on: May 14, 2013, 04:37:46 PM »
I'm actually considering running my CK-61 Naiant Actives DIN, three feet off the floor, just in front of the vocal mic but not picking up the monitor, angled slightly up pointing toward the audience. That would eliminate the time delay between the audience mics and the vocal mic. I would reverse the phase of the audience pair in post production.

The stage at this place is wide and deep. Photo's here: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com/images_dogdays.html

The crowd is generally very respectful at this venue. My friend is opening for Junior Brown who is a guitar legend who has this really crazy looking double neck guitar that combines a telecaster with a lap steel! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junior_Brown

I haven't gotten permission to record him yet.  :-\

There are tables in the pit area in front of the stage, but a lot of people actually sit on an upper level further from the stage. This show will have an older crowd. The audience applause in this place sounds wonderful when it's filled up.

I'm pretty sure Junior Brown is ok with recording. Seems like I did years ago but I can't remember if I ran a rig or just went to the show.
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Walter

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. Will Rogers


MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
RECORDERS: H2, DR-40, R16, R-44, HD24, DR-2D, DR-44WL, Denon DN-500R
PRES: CA-UGLY, CA-9000, UA-5, Art USB Dual Tube Pre, Focusrite Platinum Octopre (X2)
STUFF: Patchbox I, Patchbox II, ZED-22fx, ZED-24, Soundcraft Si Impact, TOA D-4 + 2X D-4E, M-Audio MobilePre, compressors, Alesis MultiMix 8 Line Mixer 
PLUS: Gaffers tape, lot's of gaffer's tape! And cables, lot's of cables.

Offline cybergaloot

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #126 on: May 14, 2013, 04:44:59 PM »
I've read that hyper cards are the way to go with audience response mics but I've tried omnis, cards and hyper cards and finally settled on cards with the phase reversed. But I think the choice comes down to the room. Hypers might take some of the boominess out. Omnis, if placed right, might give you some ambiance as well as pick up applause. Too bad you don't have more time to test things to see which would work best in that environment. BTW, watch out for the monitors. You want to avoid picking them up in most cases. No telling what is coming out of them mix-wise.

I've tried hyper, card, and omni.  I prefer the hypers for my recording venue, but I usually run as many as I have channels for.  Don't have to use them in post, but can be nice to have.  I'll typically run a large card on each side of the stage and a hyper and omni in the middle, just because I can.

Depending on the show I might run ADK-tls in split omni at stage lip with my LSD2 in Blumlein in the middle. It depends on how I feel that night, what I expect the audience to be like, etc. I'm really glad I got lazy last Saturday night and didn't use any of those mics, just my C4s in cardioid, because I was recording Selwyn Birchwood and he has a new trick. He played Muddy Waters' "I'm a Man" for the last song. He started waving an empty beer bottle around like it was his dick. At the end he turned and dropped that bottle and picked up a full one, which he shook up and uh, climaxed with. It would have been all over my LSD2 if I put it in place. Beware Jason! He's probably coming your way since he won the International Blues Challenge.
--
Walter

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. Will Rogers


MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
RECORDERS: H2, DR-40, R16, R-44, HD24, DR-2D, DR-44WL, Denon DN-500R
PRES: CA-UGLY, CA-9000, UA-5, Art USB Dual Tube Pre, Focusrite Platinum Octopre (X2)
STUFF: Patchbox I, Patchbox II, ZED-22fx, ZED-24, Soundcraft Si Impact, TOA D-4 + 2X D-4E, M-Audio MobilePre, compressors, Alesis MultiMix 8 Line Mixer 
PLUS: Gaffers tape, lot's of gaffer's tape! And cables, lot's of cables.

Online Chuck

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #127 on: May 14, 2013, 04:46:41 PM »
Thanks cybergaloot. I e-mailed him a week ago and I have not heard back. I usually like to get permission before I go, but since I'll be at sound check I can just ask him then.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline kcmule

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #128 on: May 14, 2013, 04:51:10 PM »
I was recording Selwyn Birchwood and he has a new trick. He played Muddy Waters' "I'm a Man" for the last song. He started waving an empty beer bottle around like it was his dick. At the end he turned and dropped that bottle and picked up a full one, which he shook up and uh, climaxed with. It would have been all over my LSD2 if I put it in place. Beware Jason! He's probably coming your way since he won the International Blues Challenge.

He'll likely be here before too long.  Thanks for heads up.

Online Chuck

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #129 on: May 14, 2013, 04:54:48 PM »
I was recording Selwyn Birchwood and he has a new trick. He played Muddy Waters' "I'm a Man" for the last song. He started waving an empty beer bottle around like it was his dick. At the end he turned and dropped that bottle and picked up a full one, which he shook up and uh, climaxed with. It would have been all over my LSD2 if I put it in place. Beware Jason! He's probably coming your way since he won the International Blues Challenge.

He'll likely be here before too long.  Thanks for heads up.

...stuff like this cracks me up. lol
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #130 on: May 14, 2013, 05:16:01 PM »
I don't know Selwyn Birchwood, but Jr. Brown rocks!  He calls that custom telecaster/lap-steel instrument of his a Guit-Steel.  Great all around artist, equally strong in all three categories of writing, vocals and playing.  Hopefully you are able to record him as he puts on a great show.  I've been to a few of his shows but have never recorded him.  He hasn't been near here in a number of years, but as I recall he was open to taping last I checked.

Perhaps similar to using supercards in place of cards for the audience mics, I sometimes clamp the cardioids below the stagelip, to help further isolate them from the stage sound beyond the directionality of their cardioid pattern.  That is particularly benefitial if I have them near-spaced and angled apart from each other in a typical stereo config, rather than wider spaced and facing straight out at the audience.  The issue in mounting them under the lip is that places them considerably closer and on-axis to people sitting at the front tables and 'spotting' those audience members reactions.  If it's a relatively mellow crowd I can get away with it. 

In your case it may be better with them above the lip anyway, as you might want a bit of stage sound in your audience facing 'ambience' mics.  It's common to put them at the far edges of the stage facing straight out at the audience (super wide spaced), which probably doesn't get them any farther from the front tables in your case, but usually puts the PA on their less sensitive axis and minimizes delay from it.  That's also likely to get those mics far enough away from the other microphones that they are de-corellated so there is less potential phase issues mixing them in, and push the audience ambience toward the outside edges of the playback image leaving room for the direct stuff in the middle- a good thing for a stereo mix but not exactly what I'm shooting for with surround channels.
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Offline cybergaloot

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #131 on: May 14, 2013, 05:21:10 PM »
I was recording Selwyn Birchwood and he has a new trick. He played Muddy Waters' "I'm a Man" for the last song. He started waving an empty beer bottle around like it was his dick. At the end he turned and dropped that bottle and picked up a full one, which he shook up and uh, climaxed with. It would have been all over my LSD2 if I put it in place. Beware Jason! He's probably coming your way since he won the International Blues Challenge.

He'll likely be here before too long.  Thanks for heads up.

...stuff like this cracks me up. lol

Selwyn's great! If he comes your way do yourself a favor and go! Super nice guy and the band is great as well (drummer's got a big ego but at least his playing keeps up with it). One song Selwyn does is, I think, called "Florida Alligator" and he crawls across the floor during that one. But its not all show, there's plenty of great playing to go with it. He's having a great year. Won the IBCs and got his MBA. His girlfriend Betty Fox has a pretty damn good band as well with Josh Nelms on guitar. That guy is bad ass! Both acts are taper friendly, just get a copy to them.
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Walter

Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects. Will Rogers


MICS: Line Audio CM3, CA-11 (O & C), CA-14 (C), CAFS, Studio Project C4 (O,C, HC), Studio Project LSD2, ADK-tl, ADK-A6, ADK-5.1, MXL 603S, JM-27s, Sennheiser e600 Drum Pack, Avantone Drum Mic kit, Shure MX393S
RECORDERS: H2, DR-40, R16, R-44, HD24, DR-2D, DR-44WL, Denon DN-500R
PRES: CA-UGLY, CA-9000, UA-5, Art USB Dual Tube Pre, Focusrite Platinum Octopre (X2)
STUFF: Patchbox I, Patchbox II, ZED-22fx, ZED-24, Soundcraft Si Impact, TOA D-4 + 2X D-4E, M-Audio MobilePre, compressors, Alesis MultiMix 8 Line Mixer 
PLUS: Gaffers tape, lot's of gaffer's tape! And cables, lot's of cables.

Online Chuck

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #132 on: May 15, 2013, 10:05:04 PM »
FWIW, I got permission via e-mail from Tanya Rae Brown today to record Junior Brown.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline Jimna

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #133 on: May 15, 2013, 10:18:42 PM »
Nice!
Co-Founder of F.M.Recording 
SD: Busman Audio BSC1-K1/K2/K3/K4 > Grace Lunatec V3 > Busman Hybrid R4
LD: ADK A-51TL MP > Busman Hybrid R4
+ 48 Channel Multi-track rig

Canon 5D Mark II, Canon 2x Extender Mark III, Canon 15mm f2.8, Canon 85mm f/1.8 USM, Canon 100mm Macro f2.8, Canon 16-35mm L f2.8, Canon 24-70mm L f/2.8, Canon 70-200mm L f2.8 IS, Canon ST-E2, Canon 580ex II (x2), Canon 430ex II, PocketWizard PLUS II(x4), Radiopopper PX System

http://jmimna.com/

Information is not knowledge
Knowledge is not wisdom
Wisdom is not truth
Truth is not beauty
Beauty is not love
Love is not music
Music is THE BEST
-FZ

Online Chuck

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Re: on-stage taping
« Reply #134 on: May 21, 2013, 11:34:38 AM »
Hey guys. With the tips you gave I made a nice recording:

http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com/audio.html

Chuck Snow
Stargazers Theatre
Colorado Springs, CO
May 18, 2013

Track 1: Shure SM58 (Chuck - vocal mic) > AUX return from FOH SBD > Tascam DR-680
Track 2: Direct box (Chuck - acoustic guitar) > AUX return from FOH SBD > Tascam DR-680
Track 3: Shure SM57 (George - pedal steel amp, cone) > AUX return from FOH SBD > Tascam DR-680
Track 4: Peavey PVM 45 mic (George - pedal steel amp, edge) > Tascam DR-680
Track 5: AKG CK61-ULS (DIN (L), on stage between the monitors, center, 3' up, facing audience (phase reversed 180 degrees)) > Naiant AKG Active w/ PFA > Naiant littlekit 2.0 > Tascam DR-680
Track 6: AKG CK61-ULS (DIN (R), on stage between the monitors, center, 3' up, facing audience (phase reversed 180 degrees)) > Naiant AKG Active w/ PFA > Naiant littlekit 2.0 > Tascam DR-680

Listen to track 6, Whichever Way the Wind Blows. I think it's the most successful sounding track. I just balanced the individual channels and didn't mix each track separately or do any automation on the mix down. So the vocal and acoustic guitar are a little uneven for some songs. The mix I did was just a little EQ & reverb, some compression but, no gain riding or ducking of the audience mics between songs etc...
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: (2) Microtech Gefell M300, (2) AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, (2) CAD GXL1200 (cardioid and sub-cardioid capsule & electronics mod), (2) Audix M1290-o, (2) Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, (2) Naiant MSH-1O, (2) Naiant AKG Active cables, (2) Church CA-11 (cardioid), (2) CAD C9, (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, Tascam DR-680, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

 

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