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Poll

My preference was:

Sample 1
3 (33.3%)
Sample 2
2 (22.2%)
Couldn't hear a difference
4 (44.4%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds  (Read 4820 times)

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Offline hi and lo

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AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« on: June 15, 2013, 12:45:03 PM »
This is a one song comparison between the Sonic AD2k+ vs. the PCM-M10 of Futurebirds at Bowery Ballroom. Each file is 24/48 FLAC and the recording setup was as follows:

Source 1: Schoeps MK4 > KC5 > CMC-6 > E.A.A. PSP-2 (via XLR Out) > Sonic AD2k+ > Tascam DR-680
  • Input Level +20 dB
  • Sample Rate 48kHz
  • Word Length Mode 24-bit

Source 2: Schoeps MK4 > KC5 > CMC-6 > E.A.A. PSP-2 (via stereo mini out) > PCM-M10 Line In
  • Record Level Dial ~2
  • Sample Rate 48kHz
  • Word Length Mode 24-bit

For post-processing, nothing was done other than to invert the phase of the AD2k source and add gain so that the left-channel peaks were identical between the two sources. One important thing to note is that there was a 0.36 dB channel difference between the two recordings. I don't know if this was caused by a channel imbalance on the PSP-2 outputs, the AD2k inputs, or the PCM-M10 inputs. Nevertheless, they are as close as I could get them in Peak level and Average RMS.

The link will expire after 100 downloads. Feel free to discuss anything regarding the comp itself or gear used. I welcome your input.

DOWNLOAD HERE

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2013, 01:00:21 PM »
oh shit... I made this in the wrong forum. whoops!

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2013, 01:10:48 PM »
oh shit... I made this in the wrong forum. whoops!

report the post and Brian will move it.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2013, 01:18:19 PM »
oh shit... I made this in the wrong forum. whoops!

report the post and Brian will move it.

Yep, sent him a PM.

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2013, 01:24:07 PM »
I wouldn't kick either out of bed, but I give the edge to sample 1.

I place comps like this in audacity, mute one pair and then hit solo on the same pair (turn solo on/off to instantly flip back and forth). Then give a full listen through and pick out a quiet section to listen for microdetail. There seems to be something in the upper presence band on the guitar in sample 1 that I just thought was a better image. Not necessarily more prominant, but a better focus. I caught it 3 or 4 times when flipping but it wasn't consistant. The microdetail didn't tip it either way. Dunno, like I said, I wouldn't kick either out of bed, but if I were the one schlepping the gear, I'd probably skip the ad2k as I'm not getting enough difference to lug all that stuff around.

edit: listening gear: macbook > optical > usbpre2 > audeze lcd-2 rev2
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2013, 05:35:42 PM »
Tonedeaf and I did this exactl comp with the moe acoustic set at summer camp. The acoustic set sounds killer so that's going to be a good comp as well ;)
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline noahbickart

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2013, 05:38:34 PM »
I picked #2, and I guess its the pcm-m10
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2013, 10:25:00 AM »
If we can get a few more listens and votes I'll go ahead and spill the beans for which source was which.

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2013, 01:47:13 PM »
on my work computer with earbud headphones i could not hear much of a difference.  my initial reaction was that sample 2 sounded a bit "warmer" and sample 1 had a bit more "sizzle", but the more i listened the more the tracks sounded the same.   

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2013, 02:18:38 PM »
This one would have been interesting to do ABX style with 5 of 6 sets of randomly assigned 30 second samples.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2013, 02:24:26 PM »
This one would have been interesting to do ABX style with 5 of 6 sets of randomly assigned 30 second samples.

This could be accommodated. I wanted to get something up and quickly choose to do a 1 song comp, but I still have this recording and could make more comps (of other shows) anytime.

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2013, 03:07:47 PM »
This one would have been interesting to do ABX style with 5 of 6 sets of randomly assigned 30 second samples.

This could be accommodated. I wanted to get something up and quickly choose to do a 1 song comp, but I still have this recording and could make more comps (of other shows) anytime.

I'm torn; I don't care enough to go through with the exercise in multiple samples that were randomly labeled, but the scientist in me wants to do it well.

next time I guess. I've ABXed stuff before and it's useful if you're not sure you can make a truly honest opinion of something, but for the quick and dirty the above process is quite sufficient. Thanks for posting stuff.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline hi and lo

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #12 on: June 27, 2013, 01:26:57 AM »
Thanks to everyone that voted and provided their thoughts. The sources were:

Sample 1= AD2K+
Sample 2 = PCM-M10


Offline noahbickart

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2013, 01:29:52 PM »
I picked #2, and I guess its the pcm-m10

Thanks to everyone that voted and provided their thoughts. The sources were:

Sample 1= AD2K+
Sample 2 = PCM-M10

I'm very proud of my ears (and/or total 50/50 luck)
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk4v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mytek DSD 192> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701 / Hifiman HE-400

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2013, 02:27:23 AM »
Can anyone reupload this comp?
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #15 on: September 08, 2013, 05:19:22 AM »
Can anyone reupload this comp?

Yeah I'll UL it to dropbox right now Jerry ;) Give me 15 minutes!!!
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline jerryfreak

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2013, 08:33:49 PM »
is that a Trey 15 minutes?
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2013, 11:04:14 PM »
is that a Trey 15 minutes?

Forgot all about it. Giving link in

5, 4, 3, 2, 1
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: AD2k+ vs PCM-M10 Comp - Futurebirds
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2013, 01:57:24 AM »
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

 

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