Topic: Milab VM44 Link (cardiods) vs DPA 2006s (omni) vs DPA4061 (omni) with samples

[Popmarter]

Continue from here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=163631.0

Hi all, we taped Calexico this month in Bloemendaal.

I have put some samples here: https://soundcloud.com/popmarter. All samples are normalised and converted to 16bit the same way.

This is no 'official' comparison. I guess (and agree) the recording/equipment and cables etc. must be the same, doing that absolute right. But still, this will give you nice examples of what certain combi's are capable of.

We had a great night, meeting new (taper)friends, listening to a great band in a great venue with the hot sun going down  . And tape with permission!

@Aaronji and Eric66, you guys are great!

Enjoy, from the Dutch Tapers Association (or whatever fancy name we might come up with...)

Popmarter

[Gutbucket]

Looking forward to giving it a listen. 

What as the spacing/angle between the Milabs and what was the spacing of the two pairs of omnis?  In the photo the 4061s look very close together, but that could be the foreshortinging of the photo's perspective.  Curious about the reasoning behind the close spacing.  I suppose it could be a test of them mounted that way if that's the only way they could be mounted at other events without the spacer bar, but perhaps there are other reasons (like length of cables).  Besides the differences between the mics themselves, the difference in spacing between the two pairs of omnis is likely to be a considerably bigger factor in the resulting sound than differences in preamps, recorders and cables.  If you'd like to listen for the differences between the omnis by eliminating the spacing differences as much as possible you can simply compare one channel of each, listening in mono.

Two alternate mounting options which immediately come to mind would be to either mount each 4061 just above or below each 4006 to compare the two omni pairs most closely with identical spacing, or mount them something like half-way out the bar on each side to compare differences between two different, but more typical A-B omni spacings.

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Thats actually a good way to mount the mmp-c bodies if you don't mind the additional length. Damn clips are just about impossible to get on/off.

[Popmarter]

Looking forward to giving it a listen. 

What as the spacing/angle between the Milabs and what was the spacing of the two pairs of omnis?  In the photo the 4061s look very close together, but that could be the foreshortinging of the photo's perspective.  Curious about the reasoning behind the close spacing.  I suppose it could be a test of them mounted that way if that's the only way they could be mounted at other events without the spacer bar, but perhaps there are other reasons (like length of cables).  Besides the differences between the mics themselves, the difference in spacing between the two pairs of omnis is likely to be a considerably bigger factor in the resulting sound than differences in preamps, recorders and cables.  If you'd like to listen for the differences between the omnis by eliminating the spacing differences as much as possible you can simply compare one channel of each, listening in mono.

Two alternate mounting options which immediately come to mind would be to either mount each 4061 just above or below each 4006 to compare the two omni pairs most closely with identical spacing, or mount them something like half-way out the bar on each side to compare differences between two different, but more typical A-B omni spacings.

As for the spacing, the Milabs were 20cm apart. Not sure about the DPA 2006s (probably somewhere between 50 - 60 cm (Aaron?). DPA 4061 about 10cm (Eric66).

[Gutbucket]

Thanks.  That helps me to undersand the dynamic- three tapers doing their own things on one stand, more than three rigs setup with comparison in mind.  I certainly don't mean to nit-pick the comp!  Just thowing out some hopefully helpful observations.

[aaronji]

^^^ Exactly right, Lee.  We thought about running both the 2006c's and the Milabs directly into the R44 and also about running the 2006c > Aerco > 1/8" out to the M10 and RCA out to the R44 (I checked with Jerry to make sure both outs could be used simultaneously with no problems and also that the RCAs could go into the balanced R44 inputs).  The soundboard feed ending up taking up the second pair of R44 inputs, though, so we couldn't do either of those comps.  I am sure we'll have another opportunity (perhaps at NMAS in Tilburg in October)...

As for the spacing, the bar is a Manfrotto 154B.   So the 2006c were about 62 cm spread, I think (I can measure if anyone really cares, but that is probably right give or take a cm).

Thats actually a good way to mount the mmp-c bodies if you don't mind the additional length. Damn clips are just about impossible to get on/off.

I usually mount this way.  The few centimeters extra length are not an issue as long as that 154B is part of the equation!  Stealthy it is not...As you mentioned, the clips are very tight, so this is easier (and less wearing to the mic finish).  I also like that you can wire everything up and only pull the mics out when it is time to raise the stand.

[ArchivalAudio]

Thanks
I'll give a more critical listen later.

I am biased as I own the VM 44's and find that they give the more natural neutral real sound.
again I'll listen more later
but I do think so far the Milabs are the shining star

[Popmarter]

What interests me is that both DPA's mics have slightly more bass in them. I wonder, could this be caused by the fact that those mics were Omni's, as to where the Milabs was the one with Cardiod capsules?

[Gutbucket]

Yes, both omnis have a flat response down to below 20kHz.  The 4061s have a bit more emphasis up top than the 2006s but the 2006 is smoother and the response can be easily tailored as you like with eq.

I listened to each on their own, then threw these into Samplitude and eq'd them.  Then played around with mixing them in different ways.  Did the three spaced omni thing by bringing up the 2006s and summing the 4061s to mono panned center.  Added the 2006s to the Milabs.  Added the mono'd 4061s to the Milabs.  Then and found I liked the combination of all three sources best.  Here's the last song done that way, quick EQ to each pair, 4061 mono'd and panned center, levels set by ear, no compression- https://soundcloud.com/leakybucket/calexico-bloemendaal-3-source

[Popmarter]

Yes, both omnis have a flat response down to below 20kHz.  The 4061s have a bit more emphasis up top than the 2006s but the 2006 is smoother and the response can be easily tailored as you like with eq.

I listened to each on their own, then threw these into Samplitude and eq'd them.  Then played around with mixing them in different ways.  Did the three spaced omni thing by bringing up the 2006s and summing the 4061s to mono panned center.  Added the 2006s to the Milabs.  Added the mono'd 4061s to the Milabs.  Then and found I liked the combination of all three sources best.  Here's the last song done that way, quick EQ to each pair, 4061 mono'd and panned center, levels set by ear, no compression- https://soundcloud.com/leakybucket/calexico-bloemendaal-3-source

Sounds great! Thanks a lot. We got a SBD too, there are multiple ways to mix things.

[Gutbucket]

..multiple ways to mix things.

Yep. Playing around with that can be fun and informative. If I was was targeting surround playback, I'd likely start by bringing up the Milabs as Left/Right speaker feeds, the 2006s as L/R surrounds, and the mono'd 4061 as Center, each routed discretely to their own speakers.  The SBD could either go into the center channel if mostly mono, or the L/R if it had some worthwhile stereo infomation.  It could also replace or augment the role of the 4061s in clearing things up and anchoring the center of the playback image in the 2-channel stereo mix.  The SBD will certainly help bring up the vocal clarity and presence in places.

[Emile]

Bas, I want to be a part of the "Dutch Tapers Association"

Other than that, I wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading the previous/this thread with the pictures and all.

great job guys

Emile

[Popmarter]

Bas, I want to be a part of the "Dutch Tapers Association"

Other than that, I wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed reading the previous/this thread with the pictures and all.

great job guys

Emile

Your in!