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Author Topic: new DPA 4018 supercardioid  (Read 10410 times)

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Offline scb

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« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 08:45:38 AM by scb »

Offline johnw

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2013, 08:12:30 PM »
Pretty cool. First ive heard of the mmp-er and mmp-es active cables.

So a 4011 capsule and a mmp-es is like a 4021 and the mmp-er is like a 4022
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2013, 09:18:22 PM »
Yeah, I saw the remote cabling earlier. The 4018 (non-V) version is a pleasant surprise though. No graphs/specs on either edition posted yet.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline acidjack

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2013, 11:13:24 AM »
This is huge for DPA. The lack of a hyper option was close to the only reason I sold mine.
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Offline H₂O

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #5 on: September 18, 2013, 12:08:30 PM »
Nice! Hopefully they will consider a fig8 as well
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2013, 12:59:39 PM »
Nice! Hopefully they will consider a fig8 as well

I sent them an email about it a year or so ago and they said it was on the drawing board, but behind other projects which they wouldn't talk about. The remote cables and this can be construed as those projects.

But that's a good reminder, I should poke them and see if they will consider it again.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2013, 04:18:55 PM »
I might have to try these hypers out 8)
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Offline DATBRAD

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #8 on: September 21, 2013, 04:36:20 PM »
Looks to me like a hybrid short gun, like the 4017, only made for the vocal mic preamp body, like podium and boom mounts.
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Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2013, 01:02:40 PM »
huh?

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2013, 01:41:24 PM »
Looks to me like a hybrid short gun, like the 4017, only made for the vocal mic preamp body, like podium and boom mounts.

That IS a 4017.  The press release is somewhat confusing since the first photo near the top shows the 4017 and the photo of the 4018 is farther down.

This is the 4018-
[edit- removed the image link plucked from the press release since the image was massive.  It looks just like a MMC4011 with with MMC4018 printed on it.]
« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 03:26:12 PM by Gutbucket »
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2013, 03:11:53 PM »
As I read it, there is a 4018 and 4018V. Like the schoeps mk4 and mk40.

Without graphs, I can't confirm either way.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2013, 03:45:28 PM »
Slightly different press release with photo of the d:dicate modular line- http://www.dpamicrophones.com/en/news/archive/press%20releases/dpa-microphones-introduces-the-new-d-dicate-recording-microphone-range.aspx.  There is a 4018 page on the DPA site but no data or images there yet.



The 'V' variant is the d:facto vocal mic version.  Presumably the identical capsule with a different windscreen housing and connnector. The vocal cap housing & windbasket might change response slightly compared to the d:dicate version.  A Google search for DPA 4018 turned up DPA FA4018VSL1B d:facto™ II Vocal Microphone at vendors..

B&H-


The Pro-Sound site hosts the capsule image, specs and graphs below-



Note:  All specifications measured with the DPA d:facto II Adapter
Directional pattern:  Supercardioid
Frequency range, ± 2 dB, at 12 cm (4.7 in):  100 Hz - 16 kHz with 3 dB soft boost at 12 kHz. Permanent 3rd order low-cut filter (-3 dB at 80 Hz).
Sensitivity, nominal, ± 2 dB at 1 kHz:  5 mV/Pa; -46 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:  Typ. 19 dB(A) re. 20 μPa (max. 21 dB(A))
S/N ratio (A-weighted), re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  Typ. 75 dB(A)
Dynamic range:  Typ. 120 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  160 dB
Power supply (for full specifications):  48 V Phantom power (± 4 V)



« Last Edit: September 23, 2013, 03:47:32 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2013, 04:26:55 PM »
OOoo. That is an attractive hyper pattern though...

I knew of the vocal variant and housing, but didn't know they had posted diagrams of it yet.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2013, 08:55:43 AM »
So the MMP-E active cable is designed for use with the MMP-C pre and the all the MMC caps? Even the 2011's? I've been on the fence about the ST2011C set since January. These active cables and hyper caps make it more attractive. Although the 4018's will probably be around $1300 per cap. Maybe a 2018 twin D hyper? :P
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Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #15 on: September 24, 2013, 09:59:58 AM »
So the MMP-E active cable is designed for use with the MMP-C pre and the all the MMC caps? Even the 2011's? I've been on the fence about the ST2011C set since January. These active cables and hyper caps make it more attractive. Although the 4018's will probably be around $1300 per cap. Maybe a 2018 twin D hyper? :P

the MMP-E *is* a preamp. You don't meed the MMP-C preamp because the MMP-E is already a preamp.

Offline ts

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #16 on: September 24, 2013, 10:35:29 AM »
So the MMP-E active cable is designed for use with the MMP-C pre and the all the MMC caps? Even the 2011's? I've been on the fence about the ST2011C set since January. These active cables and hyper caps make it more attractive. Although the 4018's will probably be around $1300 per cap. Maybe a 2018 twin D hyper? :P

the MMP-E *is* a preamp. You don't meed the MMP-C preamp because the MMP-E is already a preamp.

So a pair of MMC 40xx caps and MMP-ER cables will probably reach the cost of the 402x series, but at least give the user the ability to switch caps. Any hints on the cost of the cable?
« Last Edit: September 24, 2013, 10:52:23 AM by ts »
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Offline aaronji

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #17 on: September 24, 2013, 03:31:20 PM »
So a pair of MMC 40xx caps and MMP-ER cables will probably reach the cost of the 402x series, but at least give the user the ability to switch caps. Any hints on the cost of the cable?

I've only seen one place, a Swiss audio company, that has prices listed so far (http://www.gotham.ch/de/index.php?page=2092).  Assuming those are close to accurate, and the franc/dollar ratios are the same as with other DPA stuff they sell, it looks like these may come in around $400 or $415 each.  Which would make them similar, or maybe even a bit cheaper (~ $100 or $125 less), than the 402x.

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #18 on: October 02, 2013, 03:58:13 PM »
So a pair of MMC 40xx caps and MMP-ER cables will probably reach the cost of the 402x series, but at least give the user the ability to switch caps. Any hints on the cost of the cable?

I've only seen one place, a Swiss audio company, that has prices listed so far (http://www.gotham.ch/de/index.php?page=2092).  Assuming those are close to accurate, and the franc/dollar ratios are the same as with other DPA stuff they sell, it looks like these may come in around $400 or $415 each.  Which would make them similar, or maybe even a bit cheaper (~ $100 or $125 less), than the 402x.

Oh well. I refuse to spend more than 1500 on mics for this hobby. Looks like I'll have to revisit the 2011c option.
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #19 on: October 02, 2013, 04:53:50 PM »
Looks like I'll have to revisit the 2011c option.

I don't think the 2011c setup would be bad at all.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #20 on: October 02, 2013, 05:20:18 PM »
I'd like to hear this new mic.  I dig negative polarity rear lobes.. assuming the off-axis pattern and response is smooth so it doesn't sound oddly nasil or pinched, and I don't expect a DPA 4018 would.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #21 on: October 02, 2013, 05:45:54 PM »
Oh well. I refuse to spend more than 1500 on mics for this hobby. Looks like I'll have to revisit the 2011c option.
The first set of mics I ran where well over the $1500 mark and my first owned set was over 2x this mark - this was over ten years ago though

I guess it's more than a hobby to me :)

$1600 - 1700 for these mics is a great deal - DPA is really stepping up to the plate

I wish Schoeps would come out with a similar Extension Preamp design as the MMP-E
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 05:48:00 PM by H₂O »
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Offline ts

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2013, 07:06:22 PM »
Oh well. I refuse to spend more than 1500 on mics for this hobby. Looks like I'll have to revisit the 2011c option.
The first set of mics I ran where well over the $1500 mark and my first owned set was over 2x this mark - this was over ten years ago though

I guess it's more than a hobby to me :)

$1600 - 1700 for these mics is a great deal - DPA is really stepping up to the plate

I wish Schoeps would come out with a similar Extension Preamp design as the MMP-E

Agree, but just don't know much about the short interference tube dual card cap deal. Only found one recording with 20ll's.
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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2013, 10:27:20 AM »
Small update from DPA: retail price for the active cables is $410 each.  Still no word on the 4018 caps...

Looks like I'll have to revisit the 2011c option.

I don't think the 2011c setup would be bad at all.

I have a pair of the 2006c and I am very happy with them.  That doesn't say much about the 2011, of course, but I would be willing to give them a try on the basis of my 2006 experience. 

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #24 on: October 04, 2013, 03:13:05 PM »
Small update from DPA: retail price for the active cables is $410 each.  Still no word on the 4018 caps...

I'd expect a pair of 4018 caps to be in the (usd) price range of $2500.
"This is a common practice we have on the bus; debating facts that we could easily find through printed material. It's like, how far is it today? I think it's four hours, and someone else comes in at 11 hours, and well, then we'll... just... talk about it..." - Jeb Puryear

"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be." - Jim Williams

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #25 on: October 04, 2013, 03:44:04 PM »
I might have to break my no-hypers rule for these

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #26 on: October 04, 2013, 03:57:43 PM »
Modify that into a no off sounding hyper rule. 

That way it will still apply, with this new prospective member hopefully amongst a small handful of exceptions.
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Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2013, 04:02:34 PM »
i always said "if I need hypers, I'm too far away"

but I want to try these

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2013, 04:36:35 PM »
Quote
if I need hypers, I'm too far away

That remains true.

I use hypers up close mostly for two reasons (other than an occasional spot): modified Blumlien, where it adds enough forward bias that it works far more often than crossed 8's do; and L/C/R three main mic setups where I need the additional side rejection of the pattern to have all three mics angled at reasonable forward angles, otherwise the outside pair would need to be pointing fully sideways or even backwards.  For both of those things my Gefells and ADK TLs in hyper work great and sound very good.

I don't use them because I'm far away, that's just a crutch supporting broken location for me.  Might help limp home but the broken leg is still there.  :P

But that's just my MO, I don't mean to offend bar tapers who use them to reject the yap!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2013, 08:07:27 PM »
I use hypers mainly because they sound good. Doesn't matter how far or close I am to the sound source ;)
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline DSatz

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2013, 11:37:33 PM »
scb wrote:

> I might have to break my no-hypers rule for these

A rule like that would rarely need be broken, because very few actual hypercardioid microphones exist. Most microphones that are said to have a hypercardioid pattern are closer to being supercardioids. That's true of Neumann, AKG, Beyer and others, while Schoeps and Sennheiser call theirs supercardioids (although their actual directional patterns are hardly any different from those of Neumann or AKG).

The polar diagram of a true hypercardioid would look much like that of a figure-8, but with a somewhat shrunken rear lobe; its sensitivity at 180° is only 6 dB less than its sensitivity at 0°. (For a true supercardioid that difference is around 11.7 dB.)

--Just one note about the polar diagrams that were posted earlier in this thread, which as someone pointed out, are NOT those of the model that this thread is mainly about: Any variation in the pattern at different frequencies means that for different angles of sound incidence (arrival), the microphone will have different frequency response curves. That's no problem for typical studio applications (spot miking), but it's a disadvantage for stereo recording with coincident or closely-spaced pairs of microphones, since those recording methods are based on the microphones having essentially identical frequency response at all angles of incidence.

--best regards
« Last Edit: November 02, 2013, 12:43:02 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #31 on: October 07, 2013, 06:41:28 AM »
scb wrote:

> I might have to break my no-hypers rule for these

No, I don't think you would, since the polar diagram posted earlier in this thread doesn't indicate anything close to a hypercardioid pattern. Rather, the pattern appears to be somewhere between cardioid and supercardioid, depending on the frequency.


DPA hasn't posted a diagram for the new 4018 yet. I think the diagram posted was for their 4018v vocal mic. So maybe the 4018 pattern will be different

But thanks for the explanation anyway :)

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2013, 12:40:12 AM »
scb, many thanks for pointing that out. I'll change my earlier posting, because I don't want to be saying something that's untrue of the 4018. That model is the subject here, and people could easily misunderstand.

The people who quoted my message back, could you please edit that out? (It's not necessary to quote entire messages back on a threaded discussion board anyway--people can see the message that you're replying to.)

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2013, 02:38:38 AM »
done
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline aaronji

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #34 on: October 10, 2013, 06:40:47 PM »
I just heard that the 4018 caps are now available on a limited basis (guessing for top customers). Prices and specs should be out very soon!

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #35 on: October 19, 2013, 02:56:08 PM »
About to go to dpa booth at AES. Will be looking for 4018 info

Offline aaronji

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #36 on: October 19, 2013, 03:21:39 PM »
^^^ Cool!  Are you going to check out the strain relief on the active cables too?

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #37 on: October 19, 2013, 06:57:19 PM »
they didn't have the actives there or the hypers

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2013, 10:02:41 AM »
^^^ That's too bad. Any other interesting things coming from them?

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2013, 10:37:20 AM »
they mentioned possibly a 3rd kind of active cable. Since the 2 announced are side and rear cable, I have to wonder if there will be a lemo one....

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2013, 02:04:39 PM »
pricing for the 4018 seems to be the same as the 4011

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #41 on: November 16, 2013, 07:34:15 PM »





Offline DSatz

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Re: new DPA 4018 hypercard
« Reply #42 on: November 20, 2013, 09:36:57 AM »
If what's just above this message is DPA's set of polar diagrams for the new microphone, then scb, you wouldn't need to break your "no hypers" pledge for this microphone, because it isn't a hypercardioid. Rather, the curves show it as being somewhere between a cardioid and a supercardioid, depending on frequency.

In addition, DPA generally publishes frequency response curves that are corrected for a 30 cm (or about 14") measurement distance, while the other major manufacturers generally use 1 meter. So for directional (pressure gradient) microphones, such graphs include more bass boost from proximity effect than other manufacturers' graphs do. This makes the microphones appear to have better low-frequency response than if DPA used the same measurement approach as the other major manufacturers.

While DPA is admirably open about how they make their measurements, I don't know how many readers realize that they should mentally subtract several dB of low-frequency response from what is shown in these graphs, unless 14" is really a typical miking distance for them. That is, assuming that these are 30 cm graphs as has been DPA's usual practice in the past.

This doesn't apply to their omnidirectional microphones, of course, which are pressure transducers.

(For that matter, the other manufacturers' 1-meter distances also give the low end of their directional microphones a small boost over what would really be picked up in a free-field situation, but at least those curves can be fairly compared to one another since the measuring distance is the same.)

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 supercard
« Reply #43 on: November 22, 2013, 08:44:41 AM »
I guess I should change the thread title - DPA calls it a Supercardioid :)

and thanks again for the excellent information!
« Last Edit: November 22, 2013, 08:47:40 AM by scb »

Offline scb

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Re: new DPA 4018 supercardioid
« Reply #44 on: November 27, 2013, 02:48:12 PM »
I've been told there may be a MMP-EL "lemo" style active cable in early 2014. Not sure on the name, but since MMP-ES is "side" and MMP-ER is "rear," I assume the lemo might be MMP-EL

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: new DPA 4018 supercardioid
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2013, 04:06:45 AM »
Sweet! I always preferred the lemo connectors for the B+Ks/DPAs as well! Ive never personally run them, but ive recorded on the same stand as the 4023s many times, and the lemos seem like the way to go! Much easier to coil up the cables at the end of the night, and you can store your 4023 caps/bodies in a small padded case ;)
Recording:
Schoeps MK4 (MP) & MK41 Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring)

Portable Playback:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD) ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Mixing)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: new DPA 4018 supercardioid
« Reply #47 on: December 06, 2013, 11:02:30 AM »
Looks good!
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Re: new DPA 4018 supercardioid
« Reply #48 on: March 03, 2019, 09:08:36 AM »
resurrecting this thread, sorry

has anyone used the 4018V or VL vocal mic caps? these atre more common and can be had for $700 ea

specs seem identical to the 4018 except for the fact they are are less sensitive (5mv/PA vs 12 for the regular 4018), and the steep rolloff below 100K. would these be unsuitable for our use when combined with the proximity effect?

does the cap have a drastically different response, or is the 100Hz rolloff a result o the vocal mic enclosure?

4018: https://www.dpamicrophones.com/ddicate/4018-supercardioid-microphone

4018V/VL: https://www.dpamicrophones.com/dfacto/vocal-microphone
in:
small: MK4V/41V > CMR > Tinybox or PiP Squeak or J.Williams Mod MicMan Jr or no pre at all >AD2K or R07
smaller: 4061 CORE > d:vice MMA

out:
home:Benchmark DAC1 HGC > Dynaudio BM15A active monitors
shop: Musical Fidelity VLink 192 Asynchronyous> coax> DAC1 > Rokit RP8 active monitors

 

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