Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions  (Read 4578 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline yates7592

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 688
  • Gender: Male
Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« on: November 07, 2013, 04:18:31 AM »
I am thinking of buying a PS-2 for use with my Beyer CK930's and/or DPA 4021's, both going into an M10. If I get a unit with the standard 2 x XLR's out, can I use a breakout cable with a 1/8" plug on the end ok (presumably with input transformers as well), or do I need the mod that can be done (but might not even work with these mics?). If I go the transformer and cable route, any TS members can do this in a stealthy set-up?

Any other potential problems? I hear battery life is pretty good as long as put it in at the last minute?

As it is power only and not a preamp, presumably the sound coming out is uncoloured? Also, is there is a risk of cellphone interference? - I am hoping not as it is not a preamp, just like a battery box yes?

Last question, how's the noise levels?

Grateful for any advice.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2013, 09:24:58 AM by yates7592 »

Offline yates7592

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 688
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2013, 09:22:53 AM »
OK reading further on this I am thinking that if I buy a un-modded PS-2 with 2 x xlr's out, I just need 2 x Hosa Mit 176 transformers modded to terminate in a single stereo 1/8" plug. Would that work ok? Can anyone here do that mod for me on the Hosa's?

Offline ScoobieKW

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
    • ScoobieSnax Audio Archive
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2013, 10:09:01 AM »
As to battery life, with my Avantone CK-1 mics, I get 4.5 hours per 9V battery. However, I run a 9.6 V RC car battery into the 1/8" tip sleeve power input jack, with a 9V battery as a backup nearby.. The PS-2 wiill run on any DC power source between 7 and 24 Volts.

Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline dnsacks

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1643
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2013, 11:56:57 AM »
personally, I think you'd be a lot better off considering other alternatives than a ps2 -- specifically, I'd look at a naiant tiny box wired for p48 power or another preamp that provides 48 v phantom and boosts gain to line levels (or one of the used preamps in the yardsale -- nice sound devices mix pre and others were there last I checked).  I found the 9v battery situation in the ps2 to be pretty wasteful, and had a few instances where "bum' 9v batteries ruined recordings.  Further, at least on our sony d7 dat, the levels produced by the ps2 were slightly too low to run line in and too hot to run mic in -- dramatic improvement realized when we upgraded to a real preamp.  Food for thought.

Offline yousef

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2013, 12:44:09 PM »
I bought a PS-2 to mod and use with my 4022s but after reading about the potential pitfalls of modding the unit (plus the lack of adjustable gain alluded to above) sold it and got a Littlebox and subsequently Tinybox instead.

Seemed daft to spend that much on mics and then compromise them by trying to economize on the pre-amp.

IMO the Tinybox is superior in every way to the PS2 (size, battery life, connectivity, adjustable gain): worth every single penny, and many more besides.

I realize that this isn't what you asked but having started down that road myself I thought I'd share my thoughts  ;)
music>other stuff>ears
my recordings: http://db.etree.org/yousef
http://www.manchestertaper.co.uk
twitter: @manchestertaper

Offline ScoobieKW

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
    • ScoobieSnax Audio Archive
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2013, 12:46:20 PM »
personally, I think you'd be a lot better off considering other alternatives than a ps2 -- specifically, I'd look at a naiant tiny box wired for p48 power or another preamp that provides 48 v phantom and boosts gain to line levels (or one of the used preamps in the yardsale -- nice sound devices mix pre and others were there last I checked).  I found the 9v battery situation in the ps2 to be pretty wasteful, and had a few instances where "bum' 9v batteries ruined recordings.  Further, at least on our sony d7 dat, the levels produced by the ps2 were slightly too low to run line in and too hot to run mic in -- dramatic improvement realized when we upgraded to a real preamp.  Food for thought.

I run an M10/PS-2 combo and love it. The M10 preamps have plenty of gain and work well in combination with a PS-2. With the 1/8" power input, you can run an 1800 mAh battery all day. Good match for the M10 battery life.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline nameloc01

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 437
  • Gender: Male
  • Cleveland,USA
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2013, 01:04:00 PM »
if you are going to get a PS-2.. get it with the 1/8" line out mod, not the standard (stock) xlrs.. that is one less ~bulky~ cable that you are going to have to mess around with.. something you do not want to do in a stealth situation. I've ran a modded PS-2 for quite awhile now.. there have been no issues I can think of at all. Not saying don't get a Tinybox ..just sayin'.
ATu853 (c/o)
Denecke PS-2
Sony MZ-M100 (x2)
Sony PCM M-10
Ixxx XX-X
Ixxx XX-X

https://www.flickr.com/photos/46018790@N03/sets/

Offline yates7592

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 688
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2013, 01:17:07 PM »
Thanks for all the input. I previously bought (and sold) a tinybox because I got cellphone interference using my Beyers, so that was unacceptable for me as someone who doesn't get out to tape more than about once a month and usually at great expense. So the PS-2 is attractive in that I am assuming because it is power only and not amplification that I will not get any cellphone interference (like a battery box).

I contacted Sound Pros today about the 1/8" out mod and they do not offer that service anymore. There is a guy on another forum who does it so I may look into that. But I am wary of many threads where it has been stated (by DSatz in particular) that this mod may harm the mics and/or recording by doing so. Has anybody had any issues in this respect?

Looking at possibly getting breakout transformers with stereo plug to go into the M10 and that should solve all the problems, but just another cable.....

Offline ScoobieKW

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1666
    • ScoobieSnax Audio Archive
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2013, 01:33:31 PM »
RE: XLR to 1/8" mod.

Whether it's a good idea for you or not comes down to which mics you are using. If your mics can handle being run unbalanced by shorting pins 1 and 3 on your XLR then the 1/8" mod will work for you. For some mics, this will not work, and they will require a transformer solution like the Hosa LowZ/Hi Z units you had found.

A quick email to your manufacturer will confirm for your mics.

Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline danny3

  • Trade Count: (10)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 219
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2013, 06:15:59 AM »
To answer your technical question, the correct connection for all mics off the PS2 output to an unbalanced input recorder is via a balun transformer at the recorder input. 

Jon, would you give an example of what transformer one should use?
Many times in the past when I have run my mics (Samson CO2s) > PS2 > DR-2d I have had problems with noise. I have experimented with input settings on the recorder, but never fully resolved why this would happen.
Perhaps this transformer you speak of would help.

 

Offline DSatz

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (31)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2645
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2013, 08:21:54 AM »
yates75, what Jon Stoppable says is close to what I've been trying to say here for some time:
  • Pro audio equipment is designed to work with other pro equipment. Consumer audio equipment is designed to work with other consumer equipment. There are established standards in each realm, but no standard for combining them; they have conflicting requirements.
  • Any solution that you find for one particular combination of pro and consumer equipment may differ from (and can sometimes even be the exact opposite of) what you'd need to do for other combinations of pro and consumer equipment.
If you divide the "signal chain" into (a) microphones, (b) mike cables, (c) mike powering, (d) mike preamp and (e) recorder, you are trying to go from balanced to unbalanced between points (c) and (d). That can be done on a case by case basis, but the solutions are more general (i.e. your solution in one case is more likely to apply to other cases as well) if you make the transition between (d) and (e) instead. And that way the powering can be built in to the preamp, which gives you one fewer box and less cabling to deal with.

Phantom powering is a standard defined for balanced, professional microphones that are connected via balanced cables to balanced inputs. There are several possible, mutually incompatible ways of adapting the output from a phantom power supply and feeding unbalanced inputs with it. In your situation you have to choose one, but the penalty for choosing the wrong one may include damage to the microphones, the phantom power supply, and/or the recorder. Those are extreme cases, but they can definitely occur. More often the combination of equipment either doesn't work, or it works poorly, e.g. from a signal-to-noise standpoint. That's why I don't recommend making the transition from balanced to unbalanced at that point in the "chain." It can be worked out case by case but can be very problematic in general.

When Jon talks about providing transformers at the inputs of a preamp or other piece of audio circuitry, that would make the inputs of the circuitry balanced—and of the available solutions, it's the approach that comes closest to working in all cases if it's done well. However, good audio transformers aren't cheap, so a lot of people try to avoid using them to save the bucks. Also, in some cases they truly aren't necessary, so as long as you have equipment that doesn't need them and you never ever ever change microphones or the recorder, there's no reason to use them. But if you're going to use different models of microphones and different recorders, then they can take most of the worry out of the equation.

--best regards
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 11:30:08 PM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5841
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2013, 03:59:13 PM »
FWIW, lots of other better-informed wisdom here than I can add, other than that I ran the modded PS-2 with DPA 4021s and it worked fine. Actually got some of my favorite pulls of all time with that setup. I never had any problem with it, but that doesn't mean anything anybody said here is wrong. I got lucky.

Further, that was before the tinybox p48 existed and small recorders with built-in XLRs/P48 were less common. For all the reasons said, I would not consider this the best way to go now. It'll work, but it's not ideal.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline yates7592

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 688
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2013, 03:20:16 AM »
Thanks for all your input. As a result I've ruled out buying a PS-2, it may work, it may not, but even if it does, I could expect 2 hours run time with CK930's and that's just going to give me one more thing to worry about at concerts. Wish I'd not sold my bloody R-26 now!


Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (37)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5841
  • Gender: Male
Re: Denecke PS-2 - any problem going into M10 and other questions
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2013, 01:51:06 PM »
You could try the Tascam DR-40. It is inferior to the R-26 in virtually all respects except that the size is more manageable, it has longer battery life, and it costs much less. Again I'd want to see what the Beyers would do hours-wise, but I got more than 4 hours running P48 with it.
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061 w/ d:vice, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun, Nak300
Pres/Power: Aerco MP2, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Sound Devices MixPre 6, Zoom F8, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.234 seconds with 42 queries.
© 2002-2019 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF