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Author Topic: Denecke PS2  (Read 5261 times)

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Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2014, 10:38:49 AM »
AC adapter just as easy. The PS-2 will take a range of 7-22V power with 500 mA draw.
Cut the standard tip off, and replace with 1/8" TS connector.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

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Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 02:58:24 PM »
With access to AC a standard preamp is an inexpensive and better option (balanced input, low input noise, no worries about gain/headroom, etc.)  I'd look for a lightly used M-Audio DMP3, which is sadly discontinued--small standalone stereo preamps have mostly gone away in favor USB interfaces.

A modded Edirol UA-5 also works as a 2 channel standalone preamp.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline DSatz

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 06:33:53 PM »
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record (if you know what that is), but this question isn't as simple as people think. If you wire the outputs of a phantom power supply the way it's been suggested, one of four things will occur:

[1] It'll all work just fine.
[2] It will work OK up to a given loudness level, but a different wiring scheme would have given you lower distortion and significantly better headroom.
[3] You'll get no signal except for a tiny bit of crosstalk/leakage.
[4] You may damage your microphones.

Which outcome you get will depend on the particular output circuit of your microphones. I've experienced [1] through [3] myself at various times, but [4] is definitely real as well.

Here's the message that I'm trying to deliver; people, please listen up: Balanced microphone inputs follow one (professional) standard while unbalanced microphone inputs follow another, completely different (consumer) standard. It's not just different connectors; the impedances, voltage levels and signal format all differ between the two realms.

What fools a lot of people is the fact that connecting unbalanced (consumer) signals to (professional) balanced inputs is usually pretty easy; a simple adapter will usually work well enough as long as the balanced input is sensitive enough. But the reverse is not true. Knowing how to go from balanced to unbalanced requires you to know the equipment that's providing the balanced signal. Microphone manufacturers use several different types of output circuit, which vary as to which pin is (or pins are) actively driven, and as to what will happen if one or another signal pin is connected to ground or is left "hanging" (unconnected).

Moral of the story: Check the manual; if it doesn't say how to connect the microphone to an unbalanced input (or if there's no manual), ask the manufacturer.  Don't guess. Sometimes the same manufacturer makes microphones that require different wiring schemes for unbalancing their signals.

--best regards
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 07:15:54 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 07:18:33 PM »
I'm sorry to sound like a broken record (if you know what that is) but: If you wire the PS-2's outputs the way it's been suggested, one of four things will occur:

[1] It'll all work just fine.
[2] It will work OK up to a given loudness level, but a different wiring scheme would have given you lower distortion and better headroom.
[3] You'll get no signal except for a tiny bit of crosstalk/leakage.
[4] You may damage your microphones.

Which one you get will depend on the particular microphones that you're using. I've experienced [1] through [3] myself at various times, but [4] is definitely real as well.

Here's the message that I'm trying to deliver; people, please listen up: Balanced microphone inputs follow one (professional) standard while unbalanced microphone inputs follow another, completely different (consumer) standard. It's not just different connectors; the impedances, voltage levels and signal format all differ between the two realms.

In most cases, connecting unbalanced (consumer) sources to (professional) balanced inputs is pretty easy, and general formulas tend to work pretty well in that situation if the balanced input is sensitive enough. But the reverse is not true. Connecting balanced microphones (or balanced line-level equipment) to unbalanced inputs without transformers requires a knowledge of the particular characteristics of whatever equipment is providing the balanced signal.

Microphone manufacturers use several different types of output circuit, which vary as to which pin is (or pins are) actively driven, and what happens when one signal pin is connected to ground. Always check the manual for the particular type of microphone. If it doesn't say how to connect the microphone to an unbalanced input, ask the manufacturer (and don't guess based on some other model; the same manufacturer can very well make microphones that have different requirements).

--best regards

In this case, the original poster has already identified that his mics are in the known good category. (I inferred that they were BSC1s).

With the additional information provided about power options, I agree that a standalone preamp with balanced inputs and outputs is a much better alternative.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline DSatz

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2014, 12:55:23 PM »
ScoobieKW, yes, now that I look back through the thread with a fine-tooth comb, I see that your signature mentions the same Busman microphone type that the original poster had asked about. So if you know for a fact that the pin 3 -> pin 1 bridge arrangement is right for that microphone, great, and I'm sorry if it looked as if I was criticizing you for the advice that you gave.

But I still think it needs to be made clear that all solutions to this problem are individual, case-by-case, microphone-model-by-microphone-model solutions. Many people make the naïve assumption that there's got to be a standard adapter or wiring scheme for going from balanced to unbalanced. That assumption is not only wrong, but can cost you the success of your recordings, or more, and it's one of several things that I feel obliged to point out on this board from time to time because they keep coming up.

Input transformers used to be the universal solution--giving the microphones the balanced load that they expect, which is one of the best solutions for suppressing noise from interference (professional audio equipment is balanced for a reason!). But then one fairly well-known manufacturer came out with microphones that wouldn't work if there was a transformer at the input of the preamp, so even that solution is no longer applicable to all cases. Even setting that one, now-discontinued series of microphones aside, good input transformers are neither small nor cheap, so they're not everyone's first choice. Plus around here, people seem to think that transformers inevitably color the sound (but precisely what I mean by "good" transformers is that they don't).

--best regards
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline 2manyrocks

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2014, 01:18:24 PM »
Probably should have mentioned this earlier but this is for a permanent setup on a baby grand so he will be using an ac adapter. Also the reason why he doesn't want a full blown pre. He just needs 48V phantom. I thought at $127 from B&H, the PS2 would be the best solution, plus a few extra bucks for a cable and ac adapter.

The easiest solution in this price range for a fixed install is a DMP3 preamp as suggested or maybe a small Mackie 2 channel soundboard or a used Symetrix SX202.  (one in YS right now-no affiliation with the seller.)
« Last Edit: May 18, 2014, 09:30:57 PM by 2manyrocks »

Offline spyder9

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Re: Denecke PS2
« Reply #21 on: May 20, 2014, 11:08:02 PM »
Great thread.  I have a modded PS-2 w/ the 3.5mm cable for a few years now.  Fantastic mod done by someone here on TS.  I can't remember who, but I bought it from him in the Yard.  Once you get a modded PS-2, they're hard to get rid of.  So handy and dirt cheap when you need a small rig quickly.     

I used the MIC IN always on the following with great success :  Tascam DR-1, Sony PCM- M10, and Edirol R09HR       Phantom is king!

Example:  AKG C568EB > Denecke PS-2 (modded) > Tascam DR-1

https://archive.org/details/furthur2010-02-06.akg568.spyder9.106769.flac16


 

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