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Author Topic: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?  (Read 7611 times)

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Offline Cobiwan

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Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« on: July 10, 2014, 02:18:42 AM »
So as some of you may know, I'm looking to get a second pair of caps in the near future. I already have a pair of matched MK4s. I almost scored a pair of MK41s for cheap,  but it wasn't meant to be. So it got me thinking; price aside, which is a better choice- MK 41s or MK 41Vs? I considered MK21s but that may have to wait as I really want a pair of super cards. Anyone have thoughts on what would be a better choice, again price not an issue- just have to save up a bit longer. I understand how the capsules are different, but am looking for input on what you'd choose if you had the choice to buy just one pair.
Thanks for your consideration, now let's discuss.
Coby
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 02:31:37 AM by cobiwan »
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
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Mics: Church Audio CA-14 omnis/UBB, Sonic Studios DSM-6S
Pre-Amps: Lunatec V3
Recorders: Tascam HD-P2, Tascam DR-680
Cables: Schoeps KC (Darktrain mod), Gakables XLR, S/PDIF, battery and umbrella, DigiGal AES > S/PDIF, Darktrain hot swap battery

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stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2014, 09:35:53 AM »
To me, when you eliminate price, that really leaves only two factors.  Which is the better choice is purely a function of your personal need and preference.

1)  Vertical address vs. end address.  If you tape open, probably not much of a factor here but people seem to like the vertical address capsule design more for low-profile recording work.

2)  Frequency response.  The HF bump of the 41 makes it sound a bit thinner to me than a comparable mk4 or mk21 recording.  Personally, for the music and locations that I record, so far I like the mk41V.  Alot.  It retains the low end punch of the wider patterns while providing the sound rejection features of a 41. 
FWIW, I'm a 'point-at-stacks' taper. 

There might be one additional consideration I can think of.  The vertical address capsules have a greater screen surface area, so perhaps there would be a tendency that they'd need cleaning more often.  Not really sure about that though.

EDITED due to incorrect information as pointed out by someone later in this thread.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 11:49:38 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline todd e

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2014, 10:01:56 AM »
also depends what you are running them into, imho. 
since you already have the mounts etc for the 4s or 21s, no need to start getting vertical. 
the 41's are great
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 11:31:14 AM by todd e »

Offline H₂O

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2014, 10:37:27 AM »
I never ran the 41v's but I have run 4's, 5's, 4v's, and 41's


For the 4 vs 4v - I much prefered the 4 over the 4v - the 4v was a tad to bright IMO and also harder to get proper angles (but this is before vertical address bars)


I was able to get more consist results with the mk4 versus the mk4v

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Offline raoulduke

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2014, 11:48:27 AM »
there may be some misconceptions going on here with regards to the mk41 vs the mk41v because there are indeed some differences between the two.  one is how they're housed in (end vs side-address) and the length of  (v series is longer) their outer shell.

their orientation, i.e. how they're physically pointed towards the sound source, and the housing changes the sonic characteristic and on/off axis frequency response of the capsule. depending on your needs those are a couple things you should be considering.

the mk4v has a slight high frequency bump when compared to its non side-addressed cardioid counterpart, the mk4. the 41v has an upper mid range dip that isn't present on the 41 and the polar response is also different at high frequencies.

regarding setup, one option is to run the 4v and 41v series backwards in the horizontal delrin bars.  it works exceptional for stealthing as well as open recording and the capsule spacing measurements are still correct for din, dina and nos but ortf (17 cm, 110°) will have an angle of 17 cm, 70°. i've never tested just exactly how it effects the sound when running them horizontally vs vertically but i've been doing it for years and am pleased with the recordings. the sound does arrive at the capsule differently when comparing horizontal vs vertical placement.

edit: clarify ortf
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 08:20:46 PM by raoulduke »

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2014, 11:51:55 AM »
there may be some misconceptions going on here with regards to the mk41 vs the mk41v. 

^ Sheesh.  Of course, you're right.  For some reason in my earlier response, I was thinking that the hump that shows on the mk4v frequency response curve was on the mk41 curve since I've always perceived it to be slightly thinner sounding than an MK4.  Sorry for the incorrect information.  Earlier post edited.

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2014, 12:02:11 PM »
Your comment really has got me thinking a little bit.  I got these 41v's a few months ago.  Up until now, I had really perceived these 41v's to have a slightly fuller bodied punchier sound than the 41's I ran for a couple of years.  Without giving it intense thought, I attributed it to the mistake I made in that post this AM and didn't give it much more thought.

But really I have no way of knowing for sure if that's true because I haven't done any A vs. B comps.  Bean and I record together alot, so next time we're at a festival together and I have both of my old vintage VMS's, I'll have him use one of my VMS's and I'll use the other and we'll put 41s and 41v's on the same stand.  Even wouldn't be a real A vs. B though since a Naiant PFA would be part of the chain in one case, but it would still be an interesting com.  Or maybe I'll also just swap my caps and his on the same rig and see what that sounds like.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 12:05:08 PM by tonedeaf »

adrianf74

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 12:25:31 PM »
But really I have no way of knowing for sure if that's true because I haven't done any A vs. B comps.  Bean and I record together alot, so next time we're at a festival together and I have both of my old vintage VMS's, I'll have him use one of my VMS's and I'll use the other and we'll put 41s and 41v's on the same stand.  Even wouldn't be a real A vs. B though since a Naiant PFA would be part of the chain in one case, but it would still be an interesting com.  Or maybe I'll also just swap my caps and his on the same rig and see what that sounds like.

It's not a scientific comp but one that would be interesting to hear none-the-less.  Please do post something, tonedeaf. 

I know a few people on here 'prefer' the 41V to the 41 but everything I read pointed to what raoulduke was saying so I went with the 41's (and so far I'm very happy with my results).   

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2014, 12:29:49 PM »
regarding setup, one option is to run the 4v and 41v series backwards in the horizontal delrin bars.  it works exceptional for stealthing as well as open recording and the capsule spacing measurements are still correct.

The exception there is ORTF. In the case of an ORTF bar the angle ends up being only 70 degrees.  I can make a horizontal position bar that correctly positions side address caps for ORTF.  Though a V bar is more versatile.

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Offline Cobiwan

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2014, 01:49:28 PM »
there may be some misconceptions going on here with regards to the mk41 vs the mk41v. 

^ Sheesh.  Of course, you're right.  For some reason in my earlier response, I was thinking that the hump that shows on the mk4v frequency response curve was on the mk41 curve since I've always perceived it to be slightly thinner sounding than an MK4.  Sorry for the incorrect information.  Earlier post edited.

I too had the misconception that the MK41Vs had the same frequency bump as the MK4V. If this is not the case then I don't really see why I'd choose the 41V over the 41.
Now it's got me thinking I need to get 41s and 4Vs instead.
"Without music, life would be a mistake."
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Mics: Church Audio CA-14 omnis/UBB, Sonic Studios DSM-6S
Pre-Amps: Lunatec V3
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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2014, 10:14:35 PM »
Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!
Recording Rigs:
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps & NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

Portable Playback Rigs:
Sony NW-A35 Walkman & Shanling M0 ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax & Westone Bluetooth MMCX Cables ->
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Westone UM Pro 30 (G1 & G2) IEM's -> Comply Isolation+ Memory Foam Tips

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2014, 10:25:11 PM »
Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

There is one distinct advantage of the 41v vs. 41. The side address capsule is a much friendlier form factor for  >:D.

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2014, 10:55:14 PM »
Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

There is one distinct advantage of the 41v vs. 41. The side address capsule is a much friendlier form factor for  >:D.

Really? You think so? I don't stea&th anymore and havent in many years, so I have no first hand experience. But I have heard that numerous times from Schoeps stea&thers :) Do you just run them in an ORTF bar, so that they are 70*? Or do you run them without an active bar? Oops, sorry, that should probably be said in a PM for you paranoid steal*hers 8)
Recording Rigs:
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps & NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

Portable Playback Rigs:
Sony NW-A35 Walkman & Shanling M0 ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax & Westone Bluetooth MMCX Cables ->
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Westone UM Pro 30 (G1 & G2) IEM's -> Comply Isolation+ Memory Foam Tips

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

adrianf74

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2014, 11:13:21 PM »
Sonically, the 41 vs. the 41v, SHOULD be exactly the same, even though the 41v is housed differently and all that jazz. Honestly, if money were no object, I'd STILL prefer the 41 vs. the 41v. Its smaller and you just "point" the mk41 caps MUCH easier than mk41vs. I have taped next to 41v numerous times since Ive had my Schoeps, and the 41v must be "pointed" perfectly, and ive even seen tapers put gaffers tape on their 41v caps and actives to make sure they dont get pointed another direction if a glowstick or beach ball or whatever hits your 41vs. I dont have to worry about that nearly as much with my mk41s. And the 41s are much cheaper than mk41vs. I honestly just dont see the point running mk41vs when the mk41s are cheaper and smaller. There is technically no point in running them soundwise so........

I think running end address mk41s over side-address mk41vs is just easier, cheaper, and more functional. Not to mention smaller than mk41vs. At the end of the day, its what you want!

There is one distinct advantage of the 41v vs. 41. The side address capsule is a much friendlier form factor for  >:D.

Really? You think so? I don't stea&th anymore and havent in many years, so I have no first hand experience. But I have heard that numerous times from Schoeps stea&thers :) Do you just run them in an ORTF bar, so that they are 70*? Or do you run them without an active bar? Oops, sorry, that should probably be said in a PM for you paranoid steal*hers 8)

I run A-B stereo (with my head facing the stacks) and have no issues with the standard MK41 capsule.  Works fine for me.  I can only imagine the coolness of having to wear my hat backwards to fit the MK41V capsules.  :D

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps MK41 or MK41V, what's the better choice?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2014, 11:27:01 PM »
The gaff tape is to keep the bar from rotating inside a mount not to keep vert address caps in place. 



 

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