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Author Topic: Sony PCM-D100 Part2  (Read 43217 times)

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Offline mnm207

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #135 on: May 04, 2017, 08:51:43 AM »
JDW, I use the Movo SMM5-R (your second link) to mount a D100 on a tripod (or light stand) and on a grip. It works well while being light, small and cheap. I can't speak to its durability, though I'm not gentle on mine. If it were to break I'd buy another without hesitation.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #136 on: May 04, 2017, 09:24:03 AM »
JDW, I use the Movo SMM5-R (your second link) to mount a D100 on a tripod (or light stand) and on a grip. It works well while being light, small and cheap. I can't speak to its durability, though I'm not gentle on mine. If it were to break I'd buy another without hesitation.

 Thank you for sharing your experience. So if you use the shock mount on the tripod and then if you lightly tap the legs of your tripod, can you hear it on the recording? And with that same set up, if someone walks closely by the tripod, will the footsteps be recorded?

Offline mnm207

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #137 on: May 04, 2017, 10:48:14 AM »
Thank you for sharing your experience. So if you use the shock mount on the tripod and then if you lightly tap the legs of your tripod, can you hear it on the recording? And with that same set up, if someone walks closely by the tripod, will the footsteps be recorded?

My experience has been that the SMM5-R reduces things like taps or footsteps transmitted physically to the recorder--I'd go so far as to say it more or less eliminates that kind of handling noise (though I'd not go so far as to say it's 100% perfect). That said, you are going to hear the actual sound of those taps, footsteps or similar nearby sounds to the extent that they're audible relative to whatever you're intending to record.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #138 on: May 04, 2017, 01:56:34 PM »
JDW: Your question is a bit confusing. Microphones record sounds, not music or plays or dialogues. If you are at at loud pop or rock concert then lots of normal things get drowned out by the speakers. But at quieter events (classical music, plays, and so on) very minor sounds can easily be picked up. Imagine being at a classical concert: the mic can pick up that person unwrapping a cough drop, or that couple whispering to one another, or shoes walking by, or the rustle of a dress. Shock mounts won't make a difference.

A mediocre mic placed well will do better than an excellent mic placed poorly. Mic characteristics are important here too. But if you place a mic on a floor back in an audience you'll most likely have several problems: one is the music won't be a clear/clean, but you'll also pick up a lot of other things in the process. One way I've gotten around some of these problems (but far from all) is using binaural mics that I wear in my ears. (Of course, I still pick up the couple whispering and things like that.)

Ideally, of course, the mic would be placed in front of the audience (e.g. front of stage): but a lot of times that's not possible. So you have to work with several compromises/tricks.

Online adrianb

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #139 on: May 04, 2017, 01:57:30 PM »
I read through every single post in this thread, but unfortunately there wasn't very much specific talk about noise floor using the internal mics.  I would really like to hear some high resolution samples that demonstrate how the 100dB setting and other settings of the D100 affect noise floor for both quiet and normal recordings.  In many of the samples I've found online, I have no idea what the settings were on the D100, so I don't know if those samples are exhibit the lowest possible noise or not.  For example, I have a TASCAM iM2 30-pin mic connected to an older gen iPod Touch, and the noise floor seems to be on par with D100 samples I am finding online -- but again, I don't know what the gain setting was on those D100 samples to make an accurate comparison.  Anyway, when comparing noise floor of my TASCAM iM2 with the D100 samples, I am finding that the noise of the D100 is more "hissy" (like cassette tape hiss) compared to my iM2 noise, which lacks high frequency hiss although lower frequency noise is present.  That could be due to the fact that the D100 internal mics pic up higher frequencies better.  Even so, I've heard some D100 voice recordings that were rather hard to listen to because the spoken S's are rather too strong, and I can also hear pops and smacks of the speaker's mouth a bit too much.

My interest in having better D100 samples boils down to my interest in knowing if the expensive D100 is going to give me better sound using its internal mics than my super-cheap-in-comparison TASCAM iM2 + iPod solution.  I know the "theoretical" answers, but I seek some better D100 samples to know for sure, complete with settings of the D100 used (including Gain) to make those sample recordings.  I usually make recordings of live performances, in rooms small and large, sometimes when an amplified audio system is used and sometimes with no audio system.  So my intent for using a D100 would be in that kind of audio environment, where you don't really know what to expect from the event you are recording, and were you cannot have the recorder close to the performers (I usually am in the audience or off to the side).

I have used many portable recording devices, and currently own the Rode iXY and Tascam iXJ2 iPhone devices together with the Sony PCM-M10 and Sony PCM-D100. Without doubt I can say that the D100 has the best mics and lowest noise floor of any portable recorder I have used. Since I record quieter ambiences noise floor has always been important to me. I liked my Sony PCM-D50 but it had to go because of the hiss, ditto for the Roland R-05.

The Rode iXY is very hissy, but I've kept it to keep in the glovebox of my car. The Tascam iXJ2 is surprisingly good, so it might not be a coincidence that you are getting good results from your iM2.

The D100 is expensive, but in my opinion it's the best portable recorder that has ever been made, at least for quieter scenes. The mics aren't capable for louder shows, look elsewhere for that. Also, I should add that I don't think the 100dB setting makes any noticeable difference. Anyway, I love my D100 I've just bought another one!

I have some comparison recordings on my soundcloud page.

https://soundcloud.com/quisquose/




Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #140 on: May 04, 2017, 02:34:47 PM »
JDW: I not sure exactly why you are focused on a small recorder and internal mics ... but if I were suggesting a tool now for users wanting high quality I would probably recommend the newly announced MixPre-3. It will be out towards the end of May. Sound Devices makes this device and that are simply excellent at all they do. There are many unique features of this smallish device, but one is that you can record to the device or use it to record directly to your computer. It will accepts essentially any kind of mic (dynamic XLR, phantom XLR, mini-plug-in). It can be powered by batter, by USB-C and some other means.

... of course all of this means you'd also need to buy a mic. But it could be a great way to grow into audio. The device costs $650. Depending on the mic you get for your needs it may cost you $850 total (or less, or more).

This may not be a good fit for you as I don't know exactly what you are doing.

As @adrianb mentioned the Sony D100 sound quality is outstanding. I've used it with an EV RE20 mic (a mic that needs a lot of gain) without any hiss or background noise. Simply amazing quality. The new MixPre-3 is the only device I've heard of that could compete with the D100 sound quality at an under $1,500 price tag.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #141 on: May 04, 2017, 06:15:24 PM »
Gentlemen, thank you for your replies. You've given me several things to consider.

I like the flexibility that a handheld recorder like the D100 potentially gives to me because it has reasonably good onboard microphones. If I didn't care about the built-in mics then of course there are a number of field recorders in addition to the sound devices MixPre-3 to consider.

I must say that after listening to the Soundcloud samples I found that the Roland CS-10EM binaural mic headphones connected to a D100 recorded some very nice sound outdoors, with good stereo separation and surprisingly good resistance wind noise, especially considering there's no means to put a furry windscreen around them.  I've never used binaural mics before, and when I did a Google search for them today I was rather surprised to find some actually shaped like human ears selling for well over $2000!  But having the mics built into headphones would seem like an interesting way to record sound and monitor it at the same time, assuming the sound you are monitoring doesn't interfere with the sound you recording since I'm sure the vibrations from the headphone speakers would make their way to the mics, right?

The other Soundcloud files were difficult to determine which recorder was which in the comparisons because nothing was announced on the recording, and when viewing it on my iPhone I couldn't see any text description other than the title; furthermore, the text title lists comparison mics in a certain order, but I didn't seem to hear those mics in that same order in terms of the noise I was detecting.  But the one Soundcloud file that did seem to make sense, with the mics being in the same left to right order as the text description, was this:

Ticking Clock Rode iXY, D50, D100
https://m.soundcloud.com/quisquose/ticking-clock-rode-ixy-sony-d50-d100-comparison

The Rode mic has less hiss but it picks up less in the higher frequencies of the clock ticks. The D50 detects higher frequencies better but it has a noticeable hiss. And then the D100 as a wider soundstage, detects high frequencies well, and has the lowest hiss of them all.

I used my AKG K702 headphones and a Headstage Arrow headphone amp attached to a lightning to headphone jack adapter on my iPhone 7 to listen to the Soundcloud samples.

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #142 on: May 04, 2017, 06:26:21 PM »
JDW: I have found the Soundman binaural mics quite nice. They come in different flavors. I believe they are around $150, but you'll have to email the developer yourself. I may be off a bit.

More here:
http://www.soundman.de/en/deutsch-okm-technik/

They work quite nicely via plug-in power (supplied by D100 and other recorders). I realize you may not be really interested, but there are nice binaural that cost much less than $2,000. But I have to imagine those pricey ones are awfully sweet!

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #143 on: May 04, 2017, 06:45:52 PM »
Is it my ad blocker at work, or is it that German website really doesn't have any PHOTOS of its products?

The $2000 binaural mic shaped exactly like human ears that I spoke of in my earlier post is this one:

https://3diosound.com/collections/microphones/products/free-space-pro-binaural-microphone

Offline mitchellm

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #144 on: May 04, 2017, 06:50:48 PM »
Ha! There's not a lot of photos at the website but the front page has a couple:
http://dev.soundman.de

I suppose there aren't different photos as all their binaurals look the same from the outside. It just some can handle higher sound pressures (think "heavy metal") better than others. The differences don't show up on the outside.

I'll pass on the $2,000 ones for the moment. :)

Offline dactylus

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #145 on: May 04, 2017, 07:28:48 PM »
I purchased a "new" D100 from Amazon Warehouse that was in damaged packaging.  Other than the damaged packaging the recorder was in mint condition and appears to be in tip top shape! Amazon has another "new" Amazon Warehouse D100 for $613.37.  New in damaged packaging.  With Amazon's return policy you have nothing to lose...

 Thank you for the tip. I just visited that Amazon webpage. But unfortunately, it does not say the item is "new." In fact, it says it is clearly "used," and that it will also come with damage packaging.

If it was indeed a "new" item that had damaged packaging, I think it would be a good deal. But it says it is "used." 

 What are your thoughts on that?

The description of the D100 that I purchased said:  "Condition: Used - Good" - The box was slightly ripped.  The recorder was spotless, looked brand new and was in mint condition.  No signs of use whatsoever.  I think the "used" description was generated just because the packaging was ripped.  YMMV

I haven't recorded anything with this machine yet but I fired it up and all looks well.  With the Amazon no hassle return I would give it a shot and if you don't like what you get then send it back. 
hot licks > microphones > recorder



...ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey...

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #146 on: May 04, 2017, 07:33:34 PM »
Which model Soundman binaural microphone do you use?

And would the quality of the recording (noise floor, soundstage, etc.) using one of those Soundman binaural microphones be noticeably different when connected to a Sony D-100 (or even a MixPre-3) versus an iPhone (with required adapter)?

Just so that I understand what we're talking about more accurately, these binaural microphones are mics only, or do they ALSO let you monitor the recording acting as headphones too?  It seems that the Roland product discussed earlier in this thread acts as both.

- - - - - - - -

With regard to the used item on Amazon ...

I live in Japan and Amazon USA won't ship to me.  Even if they did ship to me, returning a defective item back to them would pose a problem in terms of shipping cost. So why would I even consider buying D-100 from outside Japan? Obviously, because I want the user interface in English, not in Japanese. I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?

Offline dogmusic

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #147 on: May 04, 2017, 07:52:42 PM »

 I don't know if it's true or not, but I've read that if you buy it here in Japan the interface is locked Japanese only.  True or false?

Why don't you check it in a store in Japan?
"The ear is much more than a mere appendage on the side of the head." - Catherine Parker Anthony, Structure and Function of the Human Body (1972)

"That's metaphysically absurd, man! How can I know what you hear?" - Firesign Theatre

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #148 on: May 04, 2017, 08:08:29 PM »
Why don't you check it in a store in Japan?

Because I've never seen them in audio/video/electronic stores here, not even behind glass. I guess the price point is simply too high.  Or maybe they once were displayed in the past but no longer because the high price never made them a good seller, and we must admit that this isn't a new product were talking about either. However D-100's are sold at Amazon Japan and other places online.

Offline JDW

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Re: Sony PCM-D100 Part2
« Reply #149 on: May 04, 2017, 09:35:06 PM »
I'm still intrigued by binaural microphones. Here's an audio sample of the Soundman brand mics:

https://youtu.be/-92_8c1KU7g

I just wish they didn't use Zoom recording devices because there is a noticeable hiss in that audio, at least when played back on my AKG K703 headphones.

They get amazing stereo separation when listening to sounds coming from the sides, and pretty good from the back. But sounds that were made in front of the head didn't sound to me like the sound was truly in front of me when I listen to it through headphones. It just sounded like it was in my head.

I didn't test through stereo speakers, but I read the wiki about binaural microphones and it says the audio recorded by then would not play back properly on stereo speakers. I would assume it would just lack the stereo separation rather than sounding bad. But again I've not tested this.

Anyway ...

I contacted Amazon via chat regarding their Warehouse Deals and after much discussion they finally told me the item was indeed a customer return but that they test the device to ensure proper operation. I told them that this is a rather expensive audio recorder with a lot of features that they could not possibly test completely, but they merely said they tested it. Hmmm...

 

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