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Author Topic: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?  (Read 2261 times)

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Offline carlbeck

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V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« on: August 05, 2014, 07:21:37 AM »
I'm going to be running a V2 into my 680, does it make sense to run the V2 hotter & use the trim to attenuate the V2 or run the V2 lower & add gain at the 680? I realize it's probably six or one half a dozen but I'm curious if I'm better off using the trim vs adding some of the DR680 preamp gain? I'm thinking in my bag it will be easier to attenuate the V2 using the trim vs messing with the 680 but figured its worth asking just in case.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
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Offline achalsey

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2014, 10:50:45 AM »
Not that this response is at all scientific on which would be technically better, but anecdotally I've always just used the V2 for gain adjustments.  I keep the 680 gain behind the V2 at '0' pretty much at all times.

Offline carlbeck

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2014, 12:20:32 PM »
That's what I was thinking as well, the V2 trim is easier to use. My question was really more if the trim will "degrade" the sound essentially but being a Grace product I can't see how it would? You never know so it's always worth asking the question.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline hi and lo

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2014, 01:44:42 PM »
Personally, I think it would be easier to manage minor gain adjustments on the DR-680 rather than the V2 given that the Tascam has the ability to gang channel together and a continuous variable gain range. With the v2, you've only got 5-10dB to work with for minor adjustments and will have to adjust the stepped gain, possibly mid-show, for larger adjustments.

IIRC, the trim on the V2 is attenuation (unlike the V3 which I believe is additional gain), so you're technically adding resistance and noise by not running the Trim at 0dB. The noise added by the trim is probably negligible, but it's noise none-the-less.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2014, 03:59:39 PM »
Same here.  Primarily a practical issue of ease of gain control, I think.  I'd set V2 gain to wherever it needs to be to get the 680 channels it is feeding (switched to Line sensitivity) to approximatley the same level as any other microphones going straight into the 680.  Then, once satisfied with the relative channel balance of all active recording channels, gang them all together and adjust their gain in unison as necessary with the single knob on the 680.
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Offline carlbeck

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2014, 04:43:37 PM »
Valid points, currently I adjust gain on the DR after my preamp but figured I'd ask the question in case their was a valid argument either way. I didn't think of the adding the noise aspect using the attenuator on the V2 so as always this place is a wealth of information, thank you!
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline T-90

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 07:12:38 PM »
The practical answer is probably to do whatever is easiest because it won't make a lot of difference either way

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Offline hi and lo

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2014, 07:14:23 PM »

Depending on the design of the V2, using the attenuator could possibly reduce net noise if levels are set properly throughout the system, but it probably makes little difference either way.

I think this is a really good point and something I didn't factor in when I mentioned that the V2's trim function via attenuation. The reality is that what happens to the signal in either box (the V2 or 680) hasn't been accurately measured by anyone on this forum. It's possible that the V2's trim attenuation is better implemented than the gain/attenuation structure of the 680.

The practical answer is probably to do whatever is easiest because it won't make a lot of difference either way.


And this is why I think I'd prefer to use the 680 re: gang control via a single knob. Couldn't agree more!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2014, 10:14:25 PM »
The practical answer is probably to do whatever is easiest because it won't make a lot of difference either way.
And this is why I think I'd prefer to use the 680 re: gang control via a single knob. Couldn't agree more!

And why it makes practical sense setting the gain of the V2 so that it's output is driving the DR-680 Line-input stage at a level where the 680's input trim for those channels is near the middle of its range, and also similar to the settings of the other channels running directly into the 680. 

That will be a perfectly comfortable output level for the V2 (and input level for the DR-680) in a technical sense, but more importantly..

It's a practical thing for using the ganged function feature of the DR-680 to best effect.   If the trim settings are all similar (total range is -31 to +31), you retain a wider available range of adjustment once you gang the input gain trims together. 
The ganged adjustment range dead ends when any channel of the group reaches +31 or -31.  Say gain trim for couple of your mics are set at +21, one at +11, one at -3, and your channels from the V2 are set at -26 (effectively doing a good bit of attenuation at the 680 input).  If all those channels are then ganged together, the available range of adjustment becomes limited to +10/-6.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline carlbeck

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2014, 07:20:44 AM »
Hmmm, I mainly tape with two tracks in stereo mode but haven't used the gang function. I hadn't really thought about it before so in retrospect using the gang will make it easier vs individual trim knobs per channel.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2014, 09:02:58 AM »
It's very convenient only turning one knob instead of matching several.  The practical issue I mention above isn't usually much of a concern with only two linked channels.  It's more of an issue with larger ganged groups where the trims vary widely.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline carlbeck

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2014, 06:07:10 PM »
I've checked in the manual but can't find the gang function?
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline carlbeck

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Re: V2 > DR680 attenuate V2 or add gain at 680?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2014, 10:41:19 PM »
I figured it out, that was easy.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

 

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