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Offline dyneq

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Deep cleaning vinyl
« on: September 05, 2014, 11:55:49 AM »
I've been lurking long enough to know that there are some vinyl enthusiasts on here, so I'm going to put this out there for feedback: what do you use to deep clean vinyl and why?

I already have several 'light' cleaning solutions (carbon fiber and discwasher brushes) and a stylus cleaner, so I'm all set for getting surface nasties off. I know that deep cleaning can become an expensive task with the vacuum machines, so I'm particularly interested if anyone has compared one of those solutions to other, less expensive 'elbow grease' methods.

My motivation is to record some of my rare (no digital equivalents available) vinyl to digital and I want it to be as clean as possible. In all cases, these discs are scratch free, but old enough to have a lot of deep dirt.

Offline boltman

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 03:33:06 PM »
A vacuum machine is going to remove more dirt than other methods.  If you know someone with a machine, see if you can borrow it.  I would be happy to clean some if you'll pay shipping.  (I have a VPI HW-17F.). The next best thing might be this:

www.amazon.com/SPIN-CLEAN-STARTER-RECORD-WASHER-SYSTEM/dp/B002UKSZUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409945318&sr=8-1&keywords=spin+clean+record+cleaner

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 03:46:38 PM »
Has anyone here tried the elmer's glue method???

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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 04:00:41 PM »
^^

Seen it on YouTube; scared to try it...
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Offline OOK

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 04:22:11 PM »
Has anyone here tried the elmer's glue method???

Terry

I have heard the before and after of this method and it is unbelievable, but I have never done it myself.   As with anything take your time and you should be fine.
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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 05:51:37 PM »
I have plenty of shitty records. I should try the glue method on something I don't care about.
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Offline colinw

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 07:59:57 PM »
I have had great success with the spin clean system, although I am sure the vacuum cleaning machines are superior.
The spin clean is cheap and I have washed hundreds of records with good results.
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Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 10:09:55 PM »
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 11:15:21 PM by Ben Turnbull »
Who came first, Dave King or Zack Galifianakis?...
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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 11:24:04 PM »
Not Elmers, but wood glue seems to be the consensus over on audiokarma. Titebond II seems to be the favorite.

Also lots of DIY threads on vacuum machines and ultrasonic cleaners too.

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Offline dyneq

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 11:29:37 PM »
How handy are you?

This looks totally cool! A couple of questions:

- Did you need a special coupling between the vacuum hose and the wand?

- How did you mount the platter to the table?

Thanks to everyone for your input so far!

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2014, 01:01:10 AM »
Hose from vac will fit a same size PVC sink drain coupling.  I've since simplified that connection with a bit of white flex hose, tape secures the connection to vac. Friction holds the top.

The platter mount is going to be a function of your scavenged TT platter.  The one I found was a module of sorts that was 4"x4"x 1. 7".  The elevation of the spinning platter, when mounted on the motor, will need to be determined.  It's a puzzle.  I managed to luck out by drilling out a 3/8" or 1/2" piece of Masonite to mount the motor to, then slapped that down on the cart top through a big hole. You need to be open to experimentation. 

Small jig saw and a right size hole cutter or drill bit for the VPI stack are all you really need for tools, beyond an electric drill and screw driver.  All parts 'cept the VPI part are from Menards/Lowes/Home Depot.

Pix added here since the original thread is locked down and I can't do it there.
HTH
« Last Edit: September 06, 2014, 01:08:41 AM by Ben Turnbull »
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Offline dyneq

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2014, 10:17:24 AM »
Thanks very much for the added detail. This looks like it would totally be a worthwhile project for me!

It looks like you mix up your own fluid? Do you pour some fluid on the record, scrub with the discwasher brush and then vacuum? Do really dirty records need multiple scrub/vacuum cycles? Where's the link to the video?  ;D

Offline Ben Turnbull

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2014, 12:34:40 PM »
Grasshopper... all answers came before your questions.  Read backwards, see future.  8)
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Offline Moke

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2014, 02:06:26 PM »
This is the Vactrola RCM, by moi'.
It is a VPI vacuum wand based DIY cleaner. 
There are two platters; the left platter is the wet cleaning side, and is manually operated.
The right side is powered by a 6rpm geared motor. The suction is provided by a small Shopvac wet/dry van that is housed inside the unit.

The advantage of two platters is to be able to clean one platter while using the other. Example: wiping used water from wet side while vac'ing the record clean on the vac. side. It keeps things moving right along.






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Offline 108Ω

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2014, 02:48:55 PM »

Not Elmers, but wood glue seems to be the consensus over on audiokarma. Titebond II seems to be the favorite.


Audiokarmedians, they are, not to be taken seriously.

Just say no to vinyl, but for heaven's sake, if you must, do NOT put glue on it, ever.
Vinyl has additives and is a relatively stable chemical soup until the addition of heat or solvents (like those in glues).
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Offline audBall

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2014, 03:22:37 PM »
It seems like any glue/adhesive would need some kind of surfactant anyways to reduce the surface tension. I would think that glue (by itself) would have difficultly getting completely down into the grooves. Personally, I'd much rather use distilled water (deionized preferrably) plus a tidbit surfactant (trace detergent, no additives) and a DIY vacuum setup. It'd pose much less risk, introduce less volatiles, and be just as effective.

Offline Shawn

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #16 on: September 08, 2014, 03:20:07 PM »
I've used wood glue on numerous of records over the last decade and never had a single issue.

but yes a good liquid cleaner as described above will work well too.

Offline Sloan Simpson

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2014, 11:49:56 AM »

Not Elmers, but wood glue seems to be the consensus over on audiokarma. Titebond II seems to be the favorite.


Audiokarmedians, they are, not to be taken seriously.

Just say no to vinyl, but for heaven's sake, if you must, do NOT put glue on it, ever.
Vinyl has additives and is a relatively stable chemical soup until the addition of heat or solvents (like those in glues).
Unless it's something you enjoy, and then who cares what someone on the internet says.
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Offline 108Ω

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2014, 12:44:29 AM »

Not Elmers, but wood glue seems to be the consensus over on audiokarma. Titebond II seems to be the favorite.


Audiokarmedians, they are, not to be taken seriously.

Just say no to vinyl, but for heaven's sake, if you must, do NOT put glue on it, ever.
Vinyl has additives and is a relatively stable chemical soup until the addition of heat or solvents (like those in glues).
Unless it's something you enjoy, and then who cares what someone on the internet says.

Of course that, but if asking on the Internet for opinions, heavens knows, we'll get them.
If someone enjoys putting glue on records, who am I to judge?       

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Offline Packgrog

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #19 on: November 05, 2015, 10:03:06 AM »
Sorry to necro this thread, but PLEASE don't use wood glue. I have done it (Titebond II), and it does work, but it also has the risk of leaving small chunks in the run-out groove that are difficult to remove. There are better, less risky mask cleaning methods, but they're all messy, annoying, take a long time, and only remove click-causing contaminants (ie: doesn't help much with mold release compounds).

A vacuum-based solution is the best bang for the buck, and an excellent investment. If you have the DIY itch, the homebrew examples here are excellent. If you're not that daring, look into either the KAB EV-1 ($169 + vacuum) or Record Doctor ($200 vacuum included) if finances are really tight, or something nicer and easier to use like a Nitty Gritty, VPI HW16.5, Okki Nokki, Consonance Opera, or any other similar device for between $400 and $650. Higher prices generally just mean more time-saving convenience features. Wet clean and vacuum is first and foremost, though. Even if you get really crazy and homebrew an Ultrasonic cleaner (like I did, it does improve things), you'll still need the vacuum cleaning.

So please do not use wood glue. There are so many better options out there.

Offline acidjack

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2015, 10:42:27 AM »
I have one of those VPI vacuum cleaners. I only use it for used records that are very dirty. Honestly unless you buy a lot of dirty records I'm not sure it's essential.
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Offline Packgrog

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2015, 04:09:46 PM »
I have one of those VPI vacuum cleaners. I only use it for used records that are very dirty. Honestly unless you buy a lot of dirty records I'm not sure it's essential.
Even mint records benefit from cleaning. I've been startled by the level of improvement that I've experienced after cleaning flawless-looking records. You can get rid of pops, skips, zipper noises, or simply hazy presentation on records that look completely clean to the naked eye.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2015, 05:44:18 PM »

Not Elmers, but wood glue seems to be the consensus over on audiokarma. Titebond II seems to be the favorite.


Audiokarmedians, they are, not to be taken seriously.

Just say no to vinyl, but for heaven's sake, if you must, do NOT put glue on it, ever.
Vinyl has additives and is a relatively stable chemical soup until the addition of heat or solvents (like those in glues).

Just FYI, there are no solvents (other than water) in Elmers.  It's just PVA (poly-vinyl-acetate) diluted with water.   "Elmers type" PVA wood glues have the addition of some yellowish, vaguely wood-like coloring added, and perhaps some other additives, perhaps not.  Not sure exactly what else may be in PVA wood glues, but there isn't anything which would be considered a "plastic melting aromatic solvent" in there.
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Offline Moke

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #23 on: November 16, 2015, 05:50:19 PM »
I'm well acquainted with the gent that brought the wood glue cleaning method to light, likely nearing a decade ago now. We've exchanged tons of PM and emails over the years, as we were both restoring the same mid-50's broadcast decks, which are fairly uncommon decks. I'll trust Marios word about its working quality.
Do I use it myself? No. But then again, I've got a custom made two platter record cleaning machine, and it works flawlessly, and has never left me feeling like I need to go the wood glue route. If necessary, I would try it, without hesitation, based on Marios recommendation, but have never gotten to the point.
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Offline Moke

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2015, 09:36:04 PM »
Solvents,....
I frequently use Naphtha in cleaning vinyl, if there are nasty'isms, and on nasty 78rpm shellac, without any ill effects; and have done so for years.  I clean the record multiple times afterward with a detergent cleaning mix *with isopropyl alcohol added for vinyl, and **without isopropyl alcohol for shellac.
Naphtha is great for removing thrift store stickers from album jackets too.  In fact, I had to use it on a couple of 78 shellacs last week that I bought at a thrift store, where they applied stickers directly to the grooves.
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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2015, 08:49:09 AM »
Seriously, if you're going to go the peel route (and I might try it again with a stubborn copy of Yes - Fragile that hasn't responded well to enzymatic/vacuum/ultrasonic), either get Record ReVirginizer or Winyl Record Cleaner (basically the same stuff, which can be homebrewed if you have the inclination). It's more effective and less risky than wood glue, it doesn't generate a massive static charge when peeled off, and any stubborn bits are easily removed later since it's water soluble. Please don't use wood glue. It's just not worth it.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Deep cleaning vinyl
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2015, 09:07:47 AM »
PVA wood glue is water soluble. Water is the 'solvent' in the glue which evaporates and leaves behind the plasticy solidified PVA.  Soak it in water again and it softens, then eventually returns to it's dissolved state.  It may not be optimally suited to cleaning vinyl records, but it is water soluble, which is the only solvent it contains.  I've no horse in this race, just clarifying a few things misstated here as facts. 
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