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Author Topic: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!  (Read 7135 times)

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« on: November 20, 2014, 05:13:37 AM »
I just talked to the old owner of my vms02ib and I mentioned being able to use radio shack adaptaplugs if I can't find a genuine Schoeps DC connector for it, and when I asked that, he said he thinks the reason one of his old vms52ub fried was because he used an M tip adaptaplug on it. But, he said that he ran it for a couple of years before it fried, which seems very odd to me.

So I guess what I'm asking is if anyone here on ts.com has successfully used a Radio Shack M tip adaptaplug with their vms02ib, and if so, how long have you been successfully using it?

Obviously there aren't any freakin parts for the vms02ib anymore, so I would feel much better if someone had a real Schoeps DC connector that I can buy lol ;) But like I said, if ANYONE has been using a Radio Shack adaptaplug with success for an extended period of time, please let me know 8)

Thanks in advance,
Bean
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring & Mixing)

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2014, 08:43:31 AM »
Dude.  I know exactly what the deal is with the M-tip.  Call me and I'll explain.  To everyone else, DO NOT USE THE M-TIP to power your VMS.  I'll explain later when I have time.

I thought I told you yesteday that I'll be getting extra VMS tips?!?  WTF man? 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 08:45:12 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline kingkita

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2014, 08:59:53 AM »
Dude.  I know exactly what the deal is with the M-tip.  Call me and I'll explain.  To everyone else, DO NOT USE THE M-TIP to power your VMS.  I'll explain later when I have time.

I thought I told you yesteday that I'll be getting extra VMS tips?!?  WTF man?


Bean you have to get a special cable from schoeps they will send you the correct tip then you just get whatever end put on for what kind of battery your using.If you don't it will fry your vms.

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2014, 10:27:12 AM »
Bean I just ordered the last two from Redding, ya damn dawg.  ;)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 10:29:49 AM by tonedeaf »

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2014, 10:42:03 AM »
EDIT: Per Jon Bell's question below, this discussion applies to the older VMS boxes that are no longer made by Schoeps.  That would include the VMS02ib, VMS32ub, VMS42UB, and VMS52UB.  The VMS5U which is Schoeps current model is apparently reverse polarity protected, but it is also fuse protected.  While I'm not sure if the M-tip is the exact same design as the OEM supplied tip, seems that the 5U isn't subject to the damage that I experienced with mine, or at worst if issues happen, the result would be a blown fuse instead of a dead preamp.

EDIT #2:  The following applies to older Schoeps preamps that are NOT reverse polarity protected.  Per my discussion with Scott from Schoeps this am, apparently older VMS preamps have a reverse polarity protection circuit on them.  If that's the case, then the risk for damage is significantly decreased.  I have no idea how one can tell the difference between an older VMS that has no polarity protection and a newer one with reverse polarity protection.  Personally, I'd approach this conservatively and assume you don't have reverse polarity protection so you don't suffer the same fate as I did.


OK, so here's the deal with the Radio Shack tips and the VMS...

You can use an M-tip and it will work just fine, but ONLY IF you always remember to turn off your preamp before you unplug the cable from your preamp.  If you do that, you will never have a problem with the M-tip.  But that's a huge IF. 

The bottom line is, YOU ARE TAKING A HUGE RISK OF DAMAGING YOUR PREAMP IF YOU USE THE M-TIP.

The problem with using the M-tip is that it is vulnerable to shorts with the design of the socket in the VMS.  The official VMS tip has a little plastic donut or O-ring on the end of the connector.  When you pull the connector out, that donut keeps the shield terminal from momentarily contacting the power terminal, causing a short circuit as the connector passes up and out of the socket. 

The M tip is the right size for making contact with both shield and power terminals inside the socket ONCE IT'S BEEN INSERTED.  So it will power the VMS fine, but you're taking a HUGE risk of shorts if you happen to do what I did and remove the connector with a live battery connected and with the power switch still on.  If you turn the VMS off before removing the connector with the M-tip, you won't short your preamp.  That's why I was able to get away with operating my VMS with the M tip for awhile before I messed it up.  Obviously, I had no idea before I screwed it up what was about to happen, but once I started using an M tip connector it was only a matter of time before I messed up my preamp.

Having said all of the above, Scott at Redding told me this morning when I ordered the two replacement connectors that this is an issue for the earlier design VMS boxes.  Those that were sold later on have reverse polarity protection, so this shouldn't cause an issue.  Even so, I wouldn't risk using an M-tip. 

My recommendation is that if you can't find a sufficent replacement tip with that donut, just run your VMS from batteries. 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 11:50:17 AM by tonedeaf »

Offline jbell

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2014, 10:50:09 AM »
So this wouldn't affect the VMS 5U only the older 02ib and 52??  Thanks for the info!  I ran my old VMS02ib with a cable Teb made and never had an issue. 

OK, so here's the deal with the Radio Shack tips and the VMS...

You can use an M-tip and it will work just fine, but ONLY IF you always remember to turn off your preamp before you unplug the cable from your preamp.  If you do that, you will NEVER have a problem with the M-tip.  But that's a huge IF. 

The bottom line is, YOU ARE TAKING A HUGE RISK OF DAMAGING YOUR PREAMP IF YOU USE THE M-TIP.

There problem with using the M-tip is that it is vulnerable to shorts with the design of the socket in the VMS.  The official VMS tip has a little plastic donut or Oring on the end of the connector.  When you pull the connector out, that donut keeps the shield terminal from momentarily contacting the power terminal as the connector passes up and out of the socket. 

The M tip is the right size for making contact ONCE IT'S BEEN INSERTED.  So it will power the VMS fine, but you're taking a HUGE risk of shorts if you happen to do what I did and remove the connector with a live battery connected and with the power switch still on.  If you turn the VMS off before removing the connector with the M-tip, you won't short your preamp.  That's why I was able to get away with operating my VMS with the M tip for awhile before I messed it up.  Obviously, I had no idea before I screwed it up what was about to happen, but once I started using an M tip connector it was only a matter of time before I messed up my preamp.

Having said all of the above, Scott at Redding told me this morning when I ordered the two replacement connectors that this is an issue for the earlier design VMS boxes.  Those that were sold later on have reverse polarity protection, so this shouldn't cause an issue.  Even so, I wouldn't risk using an M-tip. 

My recommendation is that if you can't find a sufficent replacement tip with that donut, just run your VMS from batteries.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 07:31:13 PM by jbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2014, 11:03:43 AM »
So this wouldn't affect the VMS 5U only the older 02ib and 5U2??  Thanks for the info!  I ran my old VMS02ib with a cable Teb made and never had an issue. 

OK, so here's the deal with the Radio Shack tips and the VMS...

You can use an M-tip and it will work just fine, but ONLY IF you always remember to turn off your preamp before you unplug the cable from your preamp.  If you do that, you will NEVER have a problem with the M-tip.  But that's a huge IF. 

The bottom line is, YOU ARE TAKING A HUGE RISK OF DAMAGING YOUR PREAMP IF YOU USE THE M-TIP.

There problem with using the M-tip is that it is vulnerable to shorts with the design of the socket in the VMS.  The official VMS tip has a little plastic donut or Oring on the end of the connector.  When you pull the connector out, that donut keeps the shield terminal from momentarily contacting the power terminal as the connector passes up and out of the socket. 

The M tip is the right size for making contact ONCE IT'S BEEN INSERTED.  So it will power the VMS fine, but you're taking a HUGE risk of shorts if you happen to do what I did and remove the connector with a live battery connected and with the power switch still on.  If you turn the VMS off before removing the connector with the M-tip, you won't short your preamp.  That's why I was able to get away with operating my VMS with the M tip for awhile before I messed it up.  Obviously, I had no idea before I screwed it up what was about to happen, but once I started using an M tip connector it was only a matter of time before I messed up my preamp.

Having said all of the above, Scott at Redding told me this morning when I ordered the two replacement connectors that this is an issue for the earlier design VMS boxes.  Those that were sold later on have reverse polarity protection, so this shouldn't cause an issue.  Even so, I wouldn't risk using an M-tip. 

My recommendation is that if you can't find a sufficent replacement tip with that donut, just run your VMS from batteries.

Jon, I'm thinking that would be true since apparently the 5U is polarity protected.  But the 5U also is fuse protected so the worst that would happen to you is a blown fuse.  However, because it IS polarity protected, I can't tell you for sure that the power connector for the 5U doesnt have a similar situation as I describe above.  I do know for a fact that it's not the same connector as the old VMS though, since Scott ran out of those today (I think he said he could get more) but the design of the old connector is definitely different than the design of the new connector.

After talking to Scott this morning, to be 100% safe though, I think what I would recommend to you is to go to Reddings site and I just saw this morning that they sell replacement power connectors for the 5U for five bucks.  Have Ted make you a cable with that connector. 

By the way, this morning in talking to Scott, I confirmed that the above is exactly what happened to damage my old VMS.

stevetoney

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2014, 11:18:50 AM »
I ran my old VMS02ib with a cable Teb made and never had an issue. 

If Ted's cable was an M-tip cable, the reason you didn't have an issue was...

1) Your particular preamp was a later version that had reverse polarity protection, or

2) you were lucky and you always switched it off (or the battery went dead) before the connector got pulled off (e.g. the connector was never pulled off live.)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2014, 11:20:51 AM by tonedeaf »

Online yug du nord

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2014, 03:11:46 PM »
i ran a 02ib for a couple of years strictly with an adapta-plug cable (not sure what tip though) without trouble.
when i bought the 02ib, it came with a "broken" power cable that looked like an adapta-plug cable built by kind kables.
i never had any issues when i ran it.  i used a 9v dvd battery to power it.  perfect from my experience.  ymmv. 
.....got a blank space where my mind should be.....

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2014, 05:41:33 AM »
Thanks for all of the info guys!!! That's EXACTLY what I wanted and needed to know 8)

And Tonedeaf, I owe you BIGTIME for doing everything you do and for getting ahold of Redding/Schoeps and explaining everything in detail 8) I certainly didn't mean to offend you brosef lol ;)

And Tonedeaf, THANK YOU for ordering me one of the last DC connectors made for the vms02ib. You truly are a great guy and a great phriend 8)
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring & Mixing)

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2014, 06:43:29 AM »
And fwiw, Tonedeaf said that the vms02ib is TIP negative. I'll be using Darktrain to make my external power cable. So I just wanted to make sure for future reference that the vms02ib is TIP negative in case anyone needs one of these cables made in the future ;)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 06:45:17 AM by F.O.Bean »
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring & Mixing)

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline jbell

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2014, 07:00:06 PM »
For informational purposes I've run the VMS 5U with a M B tip stock tekkeon cable without issue and also used the stock M tip cable for the Naztech pb15000 as well without issue.   I have ordered the schoeps tip just to be safe. 
« Last Edit: December 24, 2014, 09:15:10 AM by jbell »
Microtech Gefell M20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60V)> Sound Devices Mixpre-6

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2014, 01:40:52 AM »
For informational purposes I've run the VMS 5U with a M tip stock tekkeon cable without issue and also used the stock M tip cable for the Naztech pb15000 as well without issue.   I have ordered the schoeps tip just to be safe. 

Yeah, especially since the 5u DC connector is only $5 8) Its a definite no brainer IMO!!! You might as well order a few of them, before Schoeps discontinues that too lol :P ;D Plus, like Tonedeaf said, the 5u has a fuse that will blow if it doesn't like the M tip. I wish there was a way to find out if my 02ib has that reverse polarity protection or not?!?!?! But Im definitely content and feel MUCH safer now that Tonedeaf got me the real deal DC connector too. Hes da FN man as usual 8) I'm going to try to order a few more just to have as backups, because my 02ib ain't goin' nowhere hahaha ;D
Recording Gear:
Schoeps MK 4 (MP) & MK 41V (MP) Capsules ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's X2 ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's x2 ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's x2 ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
SanDisk 128gb Extreme Pro & 64gb Ultra Plus ->
Westone G2 UM Pro 30 IEM's (Monitoring & Mixing)

Portable Playback Gear:
Campfire Audio Andromeda & Dorado IEM's ->
Linum G2 SuperBax & Bax 3.5mm | FiiO LC 2.5c 2.5mm ->
Shanling Audio M5s & M0 | Sony NW-A35 DAP's

DAW:
Dell Inspiron 5570-5521 SLV Laptop
(Pentium i5/8gb RAM/256gb SSD)

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline dactylus

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2019, 06:34:45 AM »

@.@


hot licks > microphones > recorder



...ball of confusion, that's what the world is today, hey hey...

Offline DSatz

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Re: Schoeps vms02ib DC connector info needed!
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2019, 12:53:42 AM »
Powering for the VMS 02 IB is similar to that for the Edirol R-44, including the tip-negative polarity. For testing purposes I've used a VCR battery and cable that I normally use for the R-44, with a Radio Shack tip "M" on the output side. But if I waggle the plug enough, it does interrupt the powering.

AFAIK the manual for the VMS 02 IB was never translated into English. The German text says that Schoeps' own, 220-Volt only (and presumably no longer available) VMS-DC power supply puts out a stabilized 12 Volts DC. AFAIK they never offered a U.S. version of that. The manual says that in other countries, one should use a supply that suits the local AC voltage--and when choosing such a supply, "Be sure that with an operating current of 50 to 200 mA, the supply delivers at least 9 Volts and no more than 16 Volts." They recommend a supply that's regulated so as to smooth over any variations in the AC line voltage.

Then it says this, which I find a bit confusing: "Pay attention to correct polarity of the applied voltage. While the VMS 02 IB won't be damaged by polarity reversal, neither will it work afterward (see circuit block diagram)." (Emphasis added.) [In the original: "Achten Sie auf richtige Polung der angelegten Spannung! Der VMS 02 IB wird zwar auch bei Verpolung nicht zerstört, er funktioniert danach aber nicht (siehe Blockschaltbild)."]

That wording doesn't quite make sense to me, since the block diagram shows a series diode right after the power input socket. (A diode allows current to flow in only one predetermined direction; if a "reverse voltage" is applied to it, only a tiny leakage current will flow, unless the voltage is so high that it causes the diode to break down.) But it is a block diagram, after all--and by definition such diagrams may differ from the actual circuit arrangement. (Also, literally it says "won't be destroyed" rather than "won't be damaged".) Thus I don't know the last word on this topic, and obviously it matters, especially now that factory service has become unavailable for this model.

The specification section of the manual says this about powering: "Batteries or external AC unit, 9 V, maximum 16 V [while] in operation (including unfiltered), connection via reverse-polarity-protected socket. / Current consumption: max. 200 mA / Battery type: 8 x alkaline AA / Battery life in operation: > 14 h". -- The "(including unfiltered)" appears to mean that if the power supply's DC output isn't well-smoothed, the peaks must be kept to 16 V maximum while the unit is in operation.

The block diagram is attached. If anyone has any further questions about what the manual says, let me know. But it's 16 pages, so I don't want to translate all of it at this point.

--best regards
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 01:22:13 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

 

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