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Author Topic: How far back is too far?  (Read 15992 times)

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Offline ducati

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2003, 12:26:42 PM »
You could have patched off my UA5 :)

Yeah, I was pretty OK with section 102, way better than sitting at the side!!!  :D

How did you upgrade your seat?

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2003, 12:57:30 PM »
warehouse instant ticketing rules!

Offline ducati

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2003, 12:59:06 PM »
My wife has been bugging me to join warehouse (she is a big fan of dave in all his iterations)...  I have always thought it seemed like a waste of $$ since we probably see them twice a year.

Maybe not?  How long have you belonged, and do you think it's worth the $$?

Offline Nick Culbreth

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2003, 01:03:08 PM »
i definately think it is worth the money.  i was able to score a pair in section 102 from wh lottery and then get a single in section 4 through instant ticketing.  i've been a member 2 years (maybe 3) and i've had pretty good luck so far.

Offline hippies

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2003, 01:18:47 PM »
Scott-
I have a quesiton to ask you before I get into my reasoning for my post earlier...What are you proposing by questioning my response to this post?  I think 7-9 feet is a wide range depending on venue size/mic location/cap's/etc....what would you suggest?  

I have been in this "scene" for 5 years.  I have been taping shows since 98, and although I hadn't owned a rig back then,  I have heard hundreds of tapes from different sources in different locations, all while comparing different sources to each other.  
 So as far as my personal taping experience with my own rig, I do not own one personally, but I have brought my friends rigs in to a few shows and been very happy with the results!
I was referring to running the mics at the 7-9 foot range because if the soundman and system engineer are doing their job, the best sound is supposed to be at head level.   You know as well as everyone else, that taping is hit or miss.
 I have been fortunate enough to realize that this works for me, so I am wondering...What works for you?
peace
PHiL


hey Phil,

not intending to ruffle your feathers at all.  what i am intending by questioning your response is to get a little bit clearer picture as to where you're coming from making blanket statements like this.  i simply don't feel that anyone with much actual taping experience would buy into this theory which you are proposing as Gospel.  or maybe i am reading you wrong?  if you truly believe that the best sound is at head height, then why run at 7-9 feet?

you state that you have compared tape sources for years without much actual taping experience.  okay, cool.  but how many comparisons have you done on similar rigs run from the exact same location, but at different heights?  if you have any such comparisons, i'd love to hear them.  

in my previous post, i stated that situations vary greatly  from show to show.  many factors will determine the best location/ height.  making a blanket statement that one should run their mics at 7-9 feet is a misnomer imho.  

i also think that the idea that sound guys attempt to work the sound so as to be most pleasing at head height is a misconception.  closer to the truth is that they try to equalize the sound throughout the venue.  most outdoor Sheds/ Amps are sloped, so the main sound pressure has to be directed up slightly to travel cleanest to the rear of the Venue.  some Venues utilize repeater stacks which would minimize this need.

transfer your theory to indoor Arenas for a minute.  if the sound crew is as you postulate, working the sound to be most beneficial at head height, then my question would be, head height to whom?  people in the front row?  people at the rear floor?  first row loge?  back row mezanine?  i think you start to see the problem with your theory.

now place yourself in a stadium situation.  Soldier Field for example.  Or Folsom Field.  again, i ask you whom the sound crew is trying to hit at head height with the sound?  my point is that in reality, the sound is more correctly 'summed' to sound roughly equal to all seats in the house.  even this effort almost always falls short.  

this inequity in sound is why you see rabid FOB tapers.  this is why you see 14-16' stands in OTSs at Arenas/ outdoor Stadiums.  this is why you see 16' stands hugging the stacks at DMB shows.

you seem to have postulated this 7-9' theory in your few shows actually running mics.  that's great if this works for you.  more power to ya, bro!  just please don't get upset if more experienced folks disagree with you.  i don't think you'll find many backers for your all encompassing 7-9' theory.

peace

~Scott  

Offline geoff piper

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2003, 01:58:05 PM »
My wife has been bugging me to join warehouse (she is a big fan of dave in all his iterations)...  I have always thought it seemed like a waste of $$ since we probably see them twice a year.

Maybe not?  How long have you belonged, and do you think it's worth the $$?

im a fourth year and just got pardon my mouth @ss raped by them 3 of 6 shows i know people that are 1st years and got 5 of 5 or more. I know i should be grateful for 3 but after being denied for D&t im kinda disappointed again

Offline nickgregory

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2003, 02:17:00 PM »
My wife has been bugging me to join warehouse (she is a big fan of dave in all his iterations)...  I have always thought it seemed like a waste of $$ since we probably see them twice a year.

Maybe not?  How long have you belonged, and do you think it's worth the $$?

im a fourth year and just got pardon my mouth @ss raped by them 3 of 6 shows i know people that are 1st years and got 5 of 5 or more. I know i should be grateful for 3 but after being denied for D&t im kinda disappointed again

So I am a 1/99 member, and usually get within the first 10 rows for shows.  D&T was my first experience at getting totally declined for all 5 requests...as a result of them doing away with seniority for that tour.  Happily I can say that I did get 2 of 2 for the shows I requested this summer (would love to go to more, but getting married, and money and vacation time is a bit scarce)....we will have to see though how happy I am when the seat locations come out.  But as much as I may bitch, the Warehouse is a nice alternative to ticketmaster, who has screwed me more times than not.

Nick

Offline ducati

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2003, 02:18:37 PM »
I never thought of that.  Ticketbastard sux.

So you don't have to pay "convienience fees" and such?  You just pay face ticket value?

That in itself would pay for membership.

Tim

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2003, 02:21:44 PM »
Quote
i also think that the idea that sound guys attempt to work the sound so as to be most pleasing at head height is a misconception.  closer to the truth is that they try to equalize the sound throughout the venue.  most outdoor Sheds/ Amps are sloped, so the main sound pressure has to be directed up slightly to travel cleanest to the rear of the Venue.  some Venues utilize repeater stacks which would minimize this need.

transfer your theory to indoor Arenas for a minute.  if the sound crew is as you postulate, working the sound to be most beneficial at head height, then my question would be, head height to whom?  people in the front row?  people at the rear floor?  first row loge?  back row mezanine?  i think you start to see the problem with your theory.

now place yourself in a stadium situation.  Soldier Field for example.  Or Folsom Field.  again, i ask you whom the sound crew is trying to hit at head height with the sound?  my point is that in reality, the sound is more correctly 'summed' to sound roughly equal to all seats in the house.  even this effort almost always falls short.  

this inequity in sound is why you see rabid FOB tapers.  this is why you see 14-16' stands in OTSs at Arenas/ outdoor Stadiums.  this is why you see 16' stands hugging the stacks at DMB shows.

you seem to have postulated this 7-9' theory in your few shows actually running mics.  that's great if this works for you.  more power to ya, bro!  just please don't get upset if more experienced folks disagree with you.  i don't think you'll find many backers for your all encompassing 7-9' theory.


Actually Scott if the band is utilizing a line-array PA system that system is optimized for each cabinet to deliver it's best sound at head height to specific points in the venue. So running a stand above 9 feet or so for a line-array PA is probably not going to get you the best results. Tolerable results perhaps but probably a bit bright.

As for people running stands over 10' or so I think they are wasting their time and I think Phil is absolutely correct in stating that you will get your best results running 7-9'. Of course that should just be a starting or reference point and you should adjust to the situation, just like all things in taping..

And FWIW I have been taping for 6 years now, most of it with my own rig and I also have quite a bit of FOH experience in a variety of venues and on a variety of pa's.... I hope my Curriculum Vitae measures up...

Tim
« Last Edit: March 27, 2003, 02:25:10 PM by Tim »

Offline hippies

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2003, 02:26:54 PM »
agreed, Tim.  

my stand generally falls within these heights as well.  alls i'm saying is no one can make a blanket statement that this setup is best in ALL situations.  as i was reading Phil, that's what i was getting from him.

~S  

Tim

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2003, 02:30:11 PM »
yeah you didn't seem like one of those w00ks with the 17 footer swaying in the breeze!  :D

had one of those guys next to me night one of vegas and behind me night two of vegas. and he had LD's up there si it looked really unstable...the worst part though was the 12 channel Mackie mixer he brought with him and the car battery he used to power it!

Offline geoff piper

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2003, 02:45:30 PM »
My wife has been bugging me to join warehouse (she is a big fan of dave in all his iterations)...  I have always thought it seemed like a waste of $$ since we probably see them twice a year.

Maybe not?  How long have you belonged, and do you think it's worth the $$?

im a fourth year and just got pardon my mouth @ss raped by them 3 of 6 shows i know people that are 1st years and got 5 of 5 or more. I know i should be grateful for 3 but after being denied for D&t im kinda disappointed again

So I am a 1/99 member, and usually get within the first 10 rows for shows.  D&T was my first experience at getting totally declined for all 5 requests...as a result of them doing away with seniority for that tour.  Happily I can say that I did get 2 of 2 for the shows I requested this summer (would love to go to more, but getting married, and money and vacation time is a bit scarce)....we will have to see though how happy I am when the seat locations come out.  But as much as I may bitch, the Warehouse is a nice alternative to ticketmaster, who has screwed me more times than not.

Nick

last year i didnt get denied but i got crappy seats all around, 2 lawn for spac darien was in the 400s, Buffalo were ok and so were toronto... for the winter i got section 120 at rochester and 101 at albany.... almost couldnt see at albany... and at rochester i got upgraded by one of the tapers i ate dinner with that night... Thanks to that dinner I am now hopefuly going to be come a memeber of the taping community

Offline schoeps t00bes

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2003, 02:59:13 PM »
haha....i remember that shit tim!!!!   :P
what did you get like 1/2 seat after the mixer got 4???   ;)
good times....
dave
Fuck MSG!!!

Tim

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2003, 03:02:05 PM »
I was definitely a bit crowded... it was fun watching him though after we talked him into getting that piece of chocolate...  ;D

Offline schoeps t00bes

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Re:How far back is too far?
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2003, 03:10:16 PM »
wtf.....chocolate for a blank DAT?????   8)
nah, i don't want any chocolate....
but dude, it's not really just chocolate....
lol......
dave
Fuck MSG!!!

 

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