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Author Topic: schoeps mk4v mounting  (Read 6096 times)

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Offline obaaron

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schoeps mk4v mounting
« on: July 14, 2015, 08:21:17 PM »
got a set of these on the way any recommendations for running them onstage?  ive got vert, din and ortf bars to use. never run side address mics before any feedback appreciated! also going to be running them next week at phish LA fob gonna try and get a couple local shows in beforehand!  ;D
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 08:29:01 PM by obaaron »
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x/MK46 | Neumann KM140/150/Nick Mod LC3/Naiant PFA| AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 matched pair | Gefell M27’s |

Offline jbell

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2015, 08:38:52 PM »
Microtech Gefell m20's> Nbob KCY> Naiant PFA(60v) or AKG ck61's & ck63's> Naiant Actives> Sound Devices Mixpre-6 @24/48

-22        -12         -6        TDS     
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Offline johnw

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2015, 10:48:59 PM »
4Vs backwards in an ORTF bar is pretty time tested. Lots of good phish tapes out there made this way. That's what I usually run. If you've got all 3 of those bars you'll find one that works well for you.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline obaaron

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2015, 11:21:50 PM »
yeah ill prob run the backwards ortf onstage for the show on friday and same for phish...dont want to be too obvious running them vertical.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2015, 11:26:12 PM by obaaron »
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x/MK46 | Neumann KM140/150/Nick Mod LC3/Naiant PFA| AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 matched pair | Gefell M27’s |

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2015, 08:47:59 PM »
yeah ill prob run the backwards ortf onstage for the show on friday and same for phish...

That will be 70 degrees.

New product - Get your NEUMANN active mounting bars
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Offline obaaron

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2015, 11:07:06 PM »
yeah ive been reading various threads and see the din bar is the way to go. unfortunatly i now realize the only din bar i have is your naiant version so looks like youll be getting some business soon
Mics:  Gefell M20,M21/sms2000/nbob | Schoeps MK4V/cmc6/nbob | AKG c460b/c480b/a60/Naiant actives - ck61,62,63,69 ;ck1,3,8;ck1x,2x,3x/MK46 | Neumann KM140/150/Nick Mod LC3/Naiant PFA| AT853, AT933 | CA-11c,o
Pres: Naiant Littlebox | Tinybox | BMod Edirol UA-5 | Church ST-9200
Recorders:  Zoom F8 | Tascam DR-680 | Tascam DR-60D | Sony PCM-M10
Video: Canon VIXIA HF R42

**ISO** -   Schoeps mk22 matched pair | Gefell M27’s |

Offline tim in jersey

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #6 on: July 16, 2015, 01:32:44 AM »
The tight angle 70* of "backwards" ORTF 4v's have always sounded good to me. 70* is roughly what I'd run as a base-line for most point-at-stacks recordings to begin with...

Offline carlbeck

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #7 on: July 16, 2015, 08:09:41 AM »
Having to run in a bar vs being able to adjust angles to the venue in a stereo bar has been my challenge since I bought the MBHO'S in an active set up. I finally bit the bullet & bought the Lyre mounts so I wasn't tied to a fixed angle. I've heard plenty of 4V ORTF bar recordings & they sound excellent so either way works, it's just my preference to have flexibility to adjust as necessary.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
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Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

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Offline johnw

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2015, 09:42:43 AM »
I wasn't going to weigh in on this since it is so individual, but I am tending to prefer PAS recordings these days, so that is why I've been running the ORTF with the 4Vs. I have tried using them in a PAS bar that I got for the 41s. This puts them back towards the 110 angle but the spacing is wider, so it isn't truly ORTF. It might sound better closer to the source, but from the back I didn't like it.

I have a DIN and DINa but definitely like the ORTF bar more with the 4Vs.

I've used the vertical bar with the 4Vs but had trouble getting this setup when I use both the 41s and 4Vs on a single Lyre shockmount with the clips.

They were designed to run vertically, so that is probably ideal and you can dial in the angle you want. It can definitely be done stealth/FOB. Zman does this all the time.
Schoeps MK41 & MK4V  |  Schoeps CMC6, Schoeps KCY, AKI/2C, PFA, Nbox Cable/PFA  |  Grace V2, Nbox Platinum  |  SD744T, SD MixPre 6, Sony PCM M10

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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2015, 10:03:39 AM »
The tight angle 70* of "backwards" ORTF 4v's have always sounded good to me. 70* is roughly what I'd run as a base-line for most point-at-stacks recordings to begin with...

To each his own. I very much like ORTF (110 degrees @ 17cm) up close, and anywhere near the stage.  So running 17cm @ 70 degrees would be quite a bit in the opposite direction. For PAS situation with a cardioid, that 70 degree angle probably would benefit quite a bit from more spacing than 17cm.

New product - Get your NEUMANN active mounting bars
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Offline bombdiggity

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2015, 11:51:02 AM »
For me it is all very situational so I use a simple bar and attach shockmounts in a vertical orientation so the mics are in the mounts vertically in front of the bar.  I can then dial in any angle I want.  Since most of what I record is without PA/unamplified I tend to just point them dead ahead from center stage lip (which minimizes audience bleed and gives a nice spatial representation of the stage sound).  If the band is really wide or I'm really close I'll angle them a bit.  Further back with a PA I might go more toward a PAS angle.  I don't do any large shows and am rarely more than 10 feet back so there's no point in going to a wide angle since there's no sound out there but reflections. 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline DSatz

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2015, 12:25:57 PM »
Has anyone here come up with nice ways of recording M/S with the MK 4V as the "M" microphone (or capsule--if the setup can be as small as possible to avoid blocking sight lines, that's even better)?
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline voltronic

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2015, 02:22:23 PM »
Has anyone here come up with nice ways of recording M/S with the MK 4V as the "M" microphone (or capsule--if the setup can be as small as possible to avoid blocking sight lines, that's even better)?

How about something like this?  It seems like it would be the least visually disturbing, especially if you're right behind it.  Instead of the hard mounting shown here, you could mount your shocks on a normal stereo bar, and then put one of these in between the stereo bar and the top of your stand to get vertical: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400142-REG/On_Stage_MSA_9501_Posi_Lok_Clutch.html

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Offline noahbickart

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2015, 11:55:56 PM »
Has anyone here come up with nice ways of recording M/S with the MK 4V as the "M" microphone (or capsule--if the setup can be as small as possible to avoid blocking sight lines, that's even better)?

These are mk41v capsules, but the same mounting system would work for a mk4v and a mk8 (or 6). A shorter "vark" bar would work as well. I just find the bigger bar so useful.
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v (x2), mk22 (x2), mk3 (x2), mk21 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, 1 pair nbob actives, GAKables 10' & 20' 6-channel snakes, Darktrain 2 & 4 channel KCY and mini xlr extensions:
Preamps:    Schoeps VMS 02iub, Naiant IPA, Sound Devices Mixpre6 I
Recorders: Sound Devices Mixpre6 I, Sony PCM m10

Home Playback: Mac Mini> Mytek Brooklyn+> McIntosh MC162> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-4XX / Beyerdynamic DT880

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: schoeps mk4v mounting
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2015, 07:59:39 PM »
Very nice Noah 8) You may want to try the Rycote 042216, which are the Grey 82 Shore Lyres, called the HG(Heavy Grey), that are a stiffer version of the stock 72 Shore Lyres that come with the INV6! Basically the same as the Schoeps a20/a20s rating IMO! The 82 Shore Lyres are sturdier than the regular 72 Lyres and are only $29/Pair, so you can cheaply upgrade the Lyres without having to buy a whole new mount, since ALL of the Lyres are backwards compatible :) I'm ordering a pair Monday when every place is open again 8)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629608-REG/Rycote_042216_042216_19_25mm_Lyre.html

And if you are still getting a little sag, then you should check this out! The Duo-Lyre can handle the largest shotgun mics, so I'm sure that the INV HG-mkiii, or even the larger INV7 or INV7 HG-mkiii would probably eliminate that little bit of sag you have going on there! But I must say, I'm impressed that the INV6 is holding that setup pretty nicely for being a little bigger than your average active bar setup 8) Here's the HG Duo-Lyre:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1054453-REG/rycote_40136_model_duo_lyre_pro_19_34.html/prm/alsVwDtl

Obviously I'm not trying to tell you what to do, just giving you an idea whats possible and the cheapest route possible to avoid/eliminate that sag. However, if your stand never gets kicked around and you're using a mic stand and not a boom pole, then its a null issue since the capsules will never move anyway, so needing anything stiffer than the INV6 72 Shore Lyres is not a concern. I've been doing a TON of windscreen and shockmount research recently, and I have learned all of the different types of Lyres already, so I just thought I'd pop in and let you know my opinion since I've been doing all of this research about them :) And I definitely think that you can benefit from the HG 82 Lyres or the Duo-Lyre. If I were to buy new again, I'd have bought [2] of these HG-mkiii's. They seem like the best all around InVision for actives since you can run anything from DINa/DIN/NOS/ORTF/PAS, without having to worry about not having the correct INV with me, or If I forgot to change out the Lyres for my INV6, so I just might sell my INV6 and get a pair of those HG-mkiii's since I know they can handle the larger NOS bars that I sometimes run, without worrying if Its going to sag or be too heavy on one end, compared to just the 72 Shore Lyres that come with the INV6 which are softer than the Duo-Lyres! Hell, I still might order two of these too :)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/880280-REG/Rycote_041118_INV_8_Microphone_Suspension.html/prm/alsVwDtl

Sorry for the huge post. I lost track of time for a second lol ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250/0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3 ->
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