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Author Topic: Omnis for outdoor back ups  (Read 5001 times)

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Offline carlbeck

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2015, 05:54:31 PM »
^ I was wondering this as well but since they are a mechanical omni vs a dual diaphragm it would make sense that you get the benefits of a true omni. I'll also echo what Acidjack said, to purchase a new mic just for a CYA especially at the cost of an MK5 seems like a expensive purchase just in case. Although I personally have become a fan of the MK5 for its HF lift in cardiod it still seems like quite the expense for a back up in select situation's, maybe a set of Line Audio OM1's is worth the experiment for you? I've heard nothing but praise for them & the price can't be beat.

All this omni talk has me wanting to experiment with mine, I have a set for my Telefunken's but have never used them since I don't tape outdoors, maybe it's time to try them onstage finally.
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
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Offline Hypnocracy

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #16 on: August 10, 2015, 08:21:25 PM »
Thanks for the clarification on the variable pattern Schweppes cap....

FTR...I'll put my STO-2's up against any Omni out there...
https://archive.org/download/dtb2023-10-10.ShakoriHills_AvensonSTO2/dtb20131010_ShakoriHills_07.mp3


Spaced 12ft with Gefell Card Center for sweetness...
https://archive.org/download/tauk2014-06-27.Avenson_Gefell/tauk20140628_BigWhat_13.mp3
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Offline easy jim

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2015, 09:43:10 PM »
Also, don't under-estimate the vintage AKG omni capsules (ck2/ck22) with either the 451/452 mic bodies or the 460 bodies with the adapter rings.  Excellent sound: price point ratio IMO.

Here's a few ck22 samples, both indoor and outdoor, in different configs.:

https://archive.org/details/banyan2007-09-01.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/nms2007-07-12.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/kdtu2009-10-17.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/cornmeal2010-07-02.akg460ck22.flac24
Mics:   AKG c452eb(x2)/c460b(x2)/c568eb(x2); a60m(x2)/a51(x2)/vr-1(x2); ck1(4),ck22(x3, x1 needs repair?),ck3 (x2, x1 needs repair?)
Pre/A2D:  Aerco MP-2 | Benchmark AD2K+ (needs repair)
Recorders: Busman V/T Mod. Edirol R-4 Pro | MOTU Traveler/MacBook Pro | Sony R500 | Sony PCM-M1
Post: Digital Performer 8/iZotope RX 4

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2015, 01:53:38 PM »
Man, I love this forum.   8)
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
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Playback: McIntosh MC 2105 > McIntosh MX 130 > Von Schweikert VR-4 JR
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Offline ScottT

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2016, 01:05:48 PM »
!!!BUMP!!!

I have wanted a lightweight second rig for festivals and, after suffering some wind noise over Memorial Weekend, I think it should be omnis.  I don't have a huge budget but found a few possibilities during my research.  Fortunately I already have a pre-amp (Busman modded UA5), clamps, cables, stand, t-bar, and a recorder so really I just need the mics and mounts.  I would like to get the best sound quality I can afford, but am wanting to keep things small.  I was inspired by ChinaRiderSTL's AT853omnis>MixPre>M10 setup which he loaned to me as a second rig for Bear Creek 2014 (thanks again Chris!).  I was running two rigs (one at each stage) and this one was a breeze to carry around the festival grounds, and yielded mighty fine results.  A couple examples:
Dirk Quinn Band:  https://archive.org/details/dqb2014-11-13.at853.flac16
Umphrey's McGee: https://archive.org/details/um2014-11-14.at853.flac16


  • Church CA-14 omnis + CA9200 would be an extremely lightweight combo and quite affordable (below $300).  The samples I found on Archive sound quite nice too.  Not sure what current wait times are...
  • The Line Audio OM1s keep getting mentioned (they are quite small mics and only cost around $125 each with current currency conversion rates) but the samples I've found are in controlled "classical" situations rather than outdoor festival taping.  Can anyone vouch that they are good from a distance?  Worth the extra weight over the CA-14s (slightly larger mics plus needing the UA-5, batteries, cables, etc.)?
  • DPA4061s are appealing for their quality and size but are outside my budget.
  • I'm not sure if other options such as the Avenson STO-2s would be worth the increased cost (~$650 for a pair is really pushing my budget), plus the added size/weight in the bag.

Any other suggestions?  Anything new in the year since this thread was originally posted?  What did you end up with Keith?
Mics: Schoeps mk22, mk41, mk8, AKG 483, ADK TL, ADK A51S
Pres: V2, Busman-mod UA5
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-70d, Tascam DR-07

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Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2016, 01:09:29 PM »
In; great thread!  ;D
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
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LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline barrettphisher

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2016, 01:36:23 PM »
I have been running my Joly Modded Oktavas mk12>Busman 680 onmi on a split bar and have been very pleased with the results.  If you get a non-modded pair on ebay for cheap you can still come in for under 500 to 600.  They constantly surprise me.  Another option.
Barrett
Mics: ADK A51 TL's C12s, at853's (card, hyper, sub, and omni caps), Michael Joly Premium Electronics Modded Oktava mk012s (Card, Hyper and Omni caps), Busman BSC1 Stereo Kit, and Oktava 319.
Pres: V3 opti/M-S Modded, BM2p+ UA5, church audio 9100, 3 wire BB
Recorders:  Busman Mod Tascam DR-680, ACM HD-P2, HD-P2, MT2 x2, D50, M10, JB3 x2, M1, D8

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2016, 03:44:39 PM »
Having run MK5 in omni mode alongside MK4Vs, I continue to be of the belief that for stereo recording at a distance (such as at a music festival), omnis are an inferior option. Meaning, maybe the CCM5 makes the most sense -- you get the nice HF bump, and you can run omnis in a pinch or in whatever other situations (up very close) they might be preferable. I wouldn't delve into a completely different mic system just to have a CYA option.

Wisdom there in the last bit, unless it's a CYA thing for rainy days when it might make more sense to leave the costly and delicate stuff safely packed.

As for the first bit, I've found that when recording outdoors at at festivals, omnis + a cardioid or supercardioid (or two, or three or four) is better than a single pair of either omnis or cards by their lonesome.   :P  However, I fully realize that's a more complicated setup than what many tapers are interested in.

Recordings made at a distance using omnis alone often benefit greatly from a presence-range EQ boost.  Whether or not a high top-end boost is also needed depends somewhat more on the response of the microphone and the PA mix.


There are some mighty fine sounding examples of good omni recordings in this thread!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline hi and lo

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2016, 04:25:24 PM »
For outdoor work, I would recommend MK21s or MK22s (my fav) over the MK4, 4v, or 5s any day of the week.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2016, 04:47:01 PM »
I agree and second that recommendation.  In my way of thinking those are sort of "directional almost omnis" which will provide decreased sensitivity to wind noise (although not as much as a true pressure omni) while retaining useful "almost cardioid like" directionality which works in good acoustics or outdoors.  Omni-ish openness, with cardioid-ish directionality.  If I was restricted to only using two mics outdoors, a subcariod/wide-omni would likely be my go-to if available.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline ScottT

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2016, 10:23:21 AM »
In my way of thinking those are sort of "directional almost omnis" which will provide decreased sensitivity to wind noise (although not as much as a true pressure omni) while retaining useful "almost cardioid like" directionality which works in good acoustics or outdoors. Omni-ish openness, with cardioid-ish directionality.  If I was restricted to only using two mics outdoors, a subcariod/wide-omni would likely be my go-to if available.

I still haven't heard Line Audio's omnis (OM1) in a live outdoor festival setting, but the CM3 (billed as "slightly wide/semi wide cardioid by the manufacturer) recordings sound pretty good.  I just wonder about their sensitivity to wind noise after losing a couple of sets over Memorial Weekend.
Mics: Schoeps mk22, mk41, mk8, AKG 483, ADK TL, ADK A51S
Pres: V2, Busman-mod UA5
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-70d, Tascam DR-07

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Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2016, 11:26:11 AM »
Also, don't under-estimate the vintage AKG omni capsules (ck2/ck22) with either the 451/452 mic bodies or the 460 bodies with the adapter rings.  Excellent sound: price point ratio IMO.

Here's a few ck22 samples, both indoor and outdoor, in different configs.:

https://archive.org/details/banyan2007-09-01.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/nms2007-07-12.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/kdtu2009-10-17.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/cornmeal2010-07-02.akg460ck22.flac24

Wow, I'll say!!  I am listening to that Banyan recording now and it sounds unbelievable!  :)
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2016, 11:48:22 AM »
Also, don't under-estimate the vintage AKG omni capsules (ck2/ck22) with either the 451/452 mic bodies or the 460 bodies with the adapter rings.  Excellent sound: price point ratio IMO.

Here's a few ck22 samples, both indoor and outdoor, in different configs.:

https://archive.org/details/banyan2007-09-01.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/nms2007-07-12.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/kdtu2009-10-17.akg452ck22.flac24
https://archive.org/details/cornmeal2010-07-02.akg460ck22.flac24

Wow, I'll say!!  I am listening to that Banyan recording now and it sounds unbelievable!  :)
We've been using the ck22 on 460 pre-amps this year. Only have three shows done and all indoors and all mixed with a center channel(s).
From what I hear, they are excellent. (edit to clarify-what I hear on these 2 recordings tells me the ck22 is an excellent Omni capsule.)
https://archive.org/details/kungfu2016-04-08.MSOmni.flac24
https://archive.org/details/particle2016-04-08.24Bit48khzMSOmni4channelmix
« Last Edit: June 10, 2016, 06:29:56 PM by rocksuitcase »
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline chinariderstl

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2016, 11:55:03 AM »
We've been using the ck22 on 460 pre-amps this year. Only have three shows done and all indoors and all mixed with a center channel(s).
From what I hear, they are excellent.
https://archive.org/details/kungfu2016-04-08.MSOmni.flac24
https://archive.org/details/particle2016-04-08.24Bit48khzMSOmni4channelmix

Good lord, that Kung Fu recording is amazing!  :o
Mics: Audio-Technica AT853's, Avantone CK-40 (Busman mod), Busman BSC1's, DPA 4022's, DPA 4060's
Pres: Apogee Mini-MP, Core Sound Battery Box
Decks: Sony PCM-M10, Tascam DR-2D, Tascam DR-680 (Busman mod)
Power: Initial RB-270, Naztech PB15000
LMA: http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Chris+Finn%22

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Omnis for outdoor back ups
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2016, 01:20:37 PM »
We've been using the ck22 on 460 pre-amps this year. Only have three shows done and all indoors and all mixed with a center channel(s).
From what I hear, they are excellent.
https://archive.org/details/kungfu2016-04-08.MSOmni.flac24
https://archive.org/details/particle2016-04-08.24Bit48khzMSOmni4channelmix

Good lord, that Kung Fu recording is amazing!  :o
wow. We appreciate that critique! We like it as well, chattering aside, we are convinced this is the way to go, particularly outdoors, either with the 414's in MS as this one was, or maybe a Ck8, in the middle.
THANKS!
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

 

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