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Author Topic: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?  (Read 4206 times)

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Offline carlbeck

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Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« on: November 27, 2015, 11:59:44 AM »
I'm going to be taping MS this weekend which I've never done before. Are there any plug ins for Audacity? What's the typical work flow? Any help is appreciated, thanks!
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline audBall

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2015, 12:37:01 PM »
I haven't used it, but this channel mixer plugin might do the trick. It has a MS preset included.

http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Nyquist_Effect_Plug-ins#Channel_Mixer

Offline kasu64

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2015, 01:00:44 PM »
Hi CarlBeck

- With audacity you can use Steve Harris' LADSPA Plugin : MS to stereo Plugin
  http://plugin.org.uk/ladspa-swh/docs/ladspa-swh.html

For example, you can hear one record and its matrix change...
If it can help you.


Recorded In the St Andrew's Chapel, in Biarritz (France)
("General" or "Balance" with some public before the concert...)


1/5 : Original Record Mid/Side
https://mega.nz/#!eUFxwBBA!H6IbJoixi1yxlneqf2tAIGKHkgkZGfgjYFOAsqJKMqs

2/5 : Mixed with Steve Harris Plugin :
https://mega.nz/#!uRE0kJiK!5VJjJUnfi9U73CdnsDpOZplErfSftbZWPbUfhEFubQA


But I really prefer  (and use)
GoldWave ...
http://www.goldwave.com/

3/5 : The same Mixed with GoldWave internal effects : Mid 100% + Side 100% to Stereo
https://mega.nz/#!GME2AIxI!WO66dK_F8XPDXgTBhNDokuya--N6e4L108cKeJVHXDA

4/5 : The same Mixed with GoldWave internal effects : Mid 90% + Side 100% to Stereo
https://mega.nz/#!OJ1VGa4b!CAymNVJAIh91GouEBrsu5ujeCCWhE8ZJAedreG87T3c

5/5 : The same Mixed with GoldWave internal effects : Mid 85% + Side 100% to Stereo
https://mega.nz/#!rVtzEIBL!MWWeqcB-Fw5M9DRyAwJmrV7vQ88CV1RZA5L_0HoN2Cs

or what other balance you prefer

Goldwave is a not an expensive shareware,
With a Good and Friendly programmer
(He has added friendly 5 years ago some functions I needed... for my SD722)

And you can change %Mid % Side as you need...
Hear instantly the changes...
That is not possible with audacity.

Excuse my english...

Kasu64
« Last Edit: November 27, 2015, 01:29:05 PM by kasu64 »
><((((°> <°))))><            SD-722 Sample : https://archive.org/details/Damaris2015-07-31.Damaris-Concert_Collegiale_Bayonne_FR_Beltran_Pagola_Sonata
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Le Pays Basque, J'aime !    SD-788T, Mics : Sennheiser = MKE 2002 "Artificial head", Blumlein-M/S : SP-LSD2, Ortf : Superlux S502
Debian 9.0 Stretch 64bits   Visit : http://belharratrio.wix.com/belharratrio  and   https://eobiarritz.wixsite.com/eobiarritz/presentation

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2015, 02:15:50 PM »
I do it the old fashioned way by copying channel 2 (side) onto a third channel and inverting the phase, linking 2 and 3 together then mix to taste. I also sometimes add a little bass boost to the side channels which can add a little space to the final mix if I feel it needs it.

Not much help with Audacity or plugins but you can do this in just about any editor.
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Offline kasu64

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 04:47:10 PM »
Hi,

Some Youtube tutos decoding M/S with Audacity

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVOBRx7zGzw  Audacity: Decoding a Middle-and-Side Recording

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFiIJAIKN0o  Converting audio to mid/side stereo with Audacity

And an other with an other soft
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiZFtN1xm-U  Recording Acoustic Guitar - Mid-Side Stereo Micing

Hope it can help you.

Kazu64
><((((°> <°))))><            SD-722 Sample : https://archive.org/details/Damaris2015-07-31.Damaris-Concert_Collegiale_Bayonne_FR_Beltran_Pagola_Sonata
Maite dut Euskal Herria  Zoom-F8 Live records at "audio" : http://belharratrio.wix.com/belharratrio    
Le Pays Basque, J'aime !    SD-788T, Mics : Sennheiser = MKE 2002 "Artificial head", Blumlein-M/S : SP-LSD2, Ortf : Superlux S502
Debian 9.0 Stretch 64bits   Visit : http://belharratrio.wix.com/belharratrio  and   https://eobiarritz.wixsite.com/eobiarritz/presentation

Offline carlbeck

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #5 on: December 01, 2015, 01:12:47 PM »
Still struggling with this but I did finally get Voxengo MSED to work as a plug in for Audacity. Thanks for the help & videos, I'll work through this sometime when I can sit down & digest more, I'm just not grasping it at the moment
I know you like, tape for people's approval and stuff, and wave your tapes around like they're your dick...  but even you can't actually think section tapes from philips sound good.  



Mics: Telefunken Elam 260, 61, 62, MBHO KA200, KA500 > Niant PFA's, AKG C34L-MS
Preamps: Grace Lunatec V2, Shure FP24
Decks: Tascam DR-2d, Zoom F8

Old rig: Recording: AKG C34 & AKG CK1X or CK2X > MK46 > 460 > Aeta Mix2000 > Sound Devices 702

Playback: Thorens TD125, Denon DVD-2900> Bel Canto DAC-1 > Audible Illusions 3B > Rogue Atlas >ZU Wax Shotgun> Hyperion 938
ALL TUBES BABY!!!

Offline Life In Rewind

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #6 on: December 01, 2015, 01:46:08 PM »
For Audacity - we need to know if we're working with a single stereo file - or two mono files.

If mono, import your files and skip the next step.

If stereo -  import your file, and then use "Split Stereo Track" on the drop down near the pan control.

Now you have 2 mono files.

From the same dropdown - Name the mid track "MID" - and check the "Mono" bullet.

Next click in the Side track and Name it "LEFT" Further down in the menu - check "Left Channel"

In the LEFT track - Edit > Select All and Copy (Ctrl+C)

Then Tracks > Add New > Mono

Click in the empty track and then Paste (Ctrl+V) then making sure you still have the wavform selected go Effect > Invert

Label it "RIGHT" Further down in the menu - check "Right Channel"

You should now have all the components of your M/S mix.

Just move the MID +/- slider back and forth to adjust the image.

Then when your satisfied with your mix - "Export" - that will sum your 3 tracks to a single L/R stereo wave.


« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 01:51:01 PM by Life In Rewind »
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #7 on: December 01, 2015, 04:52:45 PM »
^ That will work for ratios anywhere between  0% Mid / 100% Side (with the Mid fader all the way down) up to 50% Mid / 50% Side (Mid fader all the way up).

To achieve ratios between 50/50 and 100% Mid (full mono), you'll need to leave the Mid fader all the way up and lower the other two by the same amount. 

If Audacity has a channel linking function, which lets you move both faders in unison, you could use it to do that.  With this channel routing scheme, it's not critical to keep the two faders exactly equal (but with other mid/side routing schemes it is). In this case if the fader levels of the two channels are off slightly, the balance will not be perfectly symmetrical and the resulting playback image will be more mid-monophonic on one side and more side-atmospheric on the other.  That could actually come in handy to tweak the ambience and stereo-ness between the two sides if off in the original recording.  Likewise, if you really want to dive in deep with this kind of asymmetrical correction, you can equalize each side separately. Doing that is similar to Goodcooker's technique of boosting bass in the Side channel, but by a different amount on each side.

Between the ability to adjust levels for all three channels, equalize the Mid, and equalize each side (separately if necessary), you have a huge amount of control.  Use it wisely, it can get confusing fast if you go too far afield.  What you achieve with all this is a limited ability to tweak the sensitivity, pickup pattern, and angle of the resulting "virtual microphone" on each side separately, and to vary these things by frequency range.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 04:56:43 PM by Gutbucket »
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Offline morst

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Re: Mid Side (MS) on Audacity?
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 06:39:25 PM »
If Audacity has a channel linking function, which lets you move both faders in unison, you could use it to do that.

It certainly does! I name it "SIDE."

All you have to do in Audacity is to have the left channel above the right in the window, then go to the little downward-pointing triangle to the right of the track name, and open the awesome secret menu and select "Make Stereo Track."

I do it the old fashioned way by copying channel 2 (side) onto a third channel and inverting the phase, linking 2 and 3 together then mix to taste. I also sometimes add a little bass boost to the side channels which can add a little space to the final mix if I feel it needs it.

Not much help with Audacity or plugins but you can do this in just about any editor.
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