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Author Topic: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance  (Read 2960 times)

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Offline spaceman.project

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2016, 03:00:26 PM »
I own the DR-60D.  It is my main recorder. Here are a couple of examples of recordings made without an external pre:

VM-44 Links: https://archive.org/details/isd2014-05-24.VM-44.flac24

AKG 391: https://archive.org/details/DonnaTheBuffalo2015-11-21.akgCK91.flac24

I've never had any noise issues. I mainly use the dual recording function to record a second stereo track at -6db to avoid clipping. I have used the 3/4 1/8" input for board feeds, but I have never tried recording two separate stereo sources by using 3/4 and camera in. Not even sure that is possible.

As far as plug-in power, I don't know the exact voltage from the DR-60D, but you'd be better off with the power from the UBB if you are recording anything of significant volume. Most recorders provide around 3V PIP. Your M10 actually provides around 5V, IIRC.

I would only buy a new recorder if you are upgrading mics. The M10 is great for CA gear. I picked up my AKGs in the Yard Sale for $280 and the seller threw in omni caps for $140 more: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168650.msg2097119#msg2097119

Keep an eye on the YS for good deals!

Whoops, should have read your gear sig.  Those are both crazy clean recordings! Something to aspire to.  Thanks for sharing. 

Most of what I record is Post Rock / Metal / Drone, so I would say that I definitely need additional power.  If I go the PFA route (researching as we speak), the PIP probably would not cover either sets of Mics, correct? 

I will be monitoring the YS as I tend to do.  I am an estate/ garage-saler at heart, so prefer to go that route.  I am also an over researcher, so I tend to miss out on the good deals as I do my due diligence. 

Thanks

Offline lsd2525

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2016, 03:26:09 PM »
I own the DR-60D.  It is my main recorder. Here are a couple of examples of recordings made without an external pre:

VM-44 Links: https://archive.org/details/isd2014-05-24.VM-44.flac24

AKG 391: https://archive.org/details/DonnaTheBuffalo2015-11-21.akgCK91.flac24

I've never had any noise issues. I mainly use the dual recording function to record a second stereo track at -6db to avoid clipping. I have used the 3/4 1/8" input for board feeds, but I have never tried recording two separate stereo sources by using 3/4 and camera in. Not even sure that is possible.

As far as plug-in power, I don't know the exact voltage from the DR-60D, but you'd be better off with the power from the UBB if you are recording anything of significant volume. Most recorders provide around 3V PIP. Your M10 actually provides around 5V, IIRC.

I would only buy a new recorder if you are upgrading mics. The M10 is great for CA gear. I picked up my AKGs in the Yard Sale for $280 and the seller threw in omni caps for $140 more: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=168650.msg2097119#msg2097119

Keep an eye on the YS for good deals!

Whoops, should have read your gear sig.  Those are both crazy clean recordings! Something to aspire to.  Thanks for sharing. 

Most of what I record is Post Rock / Metal / Drone, so I would say that I definitely need additional power.  If I go the PFA route (researching as we speak), the PIP probably would not cover either sets of Mics, correct? 

I will be monitoring the YS as I tend to do.  I am an estate/ garage-saler at heart, so prefer to go that route.  I am also an over researcher, so I tend to miss out on the good deals as I do my due diligence. 

Thanks

99% sure you can't record anything from the camera in; that's just for monitoring. Also, the DR60 does not provide PIP through the channel 3-4 1/8" input. I power my AT853's with the AT8531 power modules and use a 2 XLR>1/8" male to the channel 3-4 input, no problems. Also, I believe the AT8505's will allow you to run phantom to the 853's.
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Offline hoppedup

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2016, 03:50:05 PM »
99% sure you can't record anything from the camera in; that's just for monitoring. Also, the DR60 does not provide PIP through the channel 3-4 1/8" input. I power my AT853's with the AT8531 power modules and use a 2 XLR>1/8" male to the channel 3-4 input, no problems. Also, I believe the AT8505's will allow you to run phantom to the 853's.

DR-60D supplies PIP through the 3/4 1/8" jack: http://tascam.com/product/dr-60d/specifications/
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Offline lsd2525

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #18 on: March 23, 2016, 04:06:06 PM »
99% sure you can't record anything from the camera in; that's just for monitoring. Also, the DR60 does not provide PIP through the channel 3-4 1/8" input. I power my AT853's with the AT8531 power modules and use a 2 XLR>1/8" male to the channel 3-4 input, no problems. Also, I believe the AT8505's will allow you to run phantom to the 853's.

DR-60D supplies PIP through the 3/4 1/8" jack: http://tascam.com/product/dr-60d/specifications/

Summabitch. How do you turn it on and off? I don't recall seeing that in the menu anywhere.......
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #19 on: March 23, 2016, 04:54:41 PM »
Summabitch. How do you turn it on and off? I don't recall seeing that in the menu anywhere.......

According to page 46 of the owner's manual: MENU>OTHERS>SYSTEM>PLUGIN PWR
AKG SE300B CK91
Berliner CM-33
CA-14 omnis
CA 9200
Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-22WL
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Offline spaceman.project

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #20 on: March 23, 2016, 06:45:52 PM »
99% sure you can't record anything from the camera in; that's just for monitoring. Also, the DR60 does not provide PIP through the channel 3-4 1/8" input. I power my AT853's with the AT8531 power modules and use a 2 XLR>1/8" male to the channel 3-4 input, no problems. Also, I believe the AT8505's will allow you to run phantom to the 853's.

DR-60D supplies PIP through the 3/4 1/8" jack: http://tascam.com/product/dr-60d/specifications/

Thanks for the clarification.  I assume that I should still use a BB?

Offline soundsinteresting

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2016, 01:54:27 AM »
I'm pretty biased being that I own these, but you should definitely check out the Line Audio mics.  A single-man shop in Switzerland that makes wide cardiods (CM3) and omnis (OM1).  The CM3 are often difficult to distinguish against the Schoeps MK 21 in mic shootouts.  Hit the Team Line Audio link in my signature for samples and full info.

CORRECTION:
Line Audio is not placed in Switzerland bus is made in SWEDEN Scandinavien.   :facepalm:
http://www.lineaudio.se/CM3.html :facepalm:

Offline voltronic

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2016, 06:51:53 AM »
I'm pretty biased being that I own these, but you should definitely check out the Line Audio mics.  A single-man shop in Switzerland that makes wide cardiods (CM3) and omnis (OM1).  The CM3 are often difficult to distinguish against the Schoeps MK 21 in mic shootouts.  Hit the Team Line Audio link in my signature for samples and full info.

CORRECTION:
Line Audio is not placed in Switzerland bus is made in SWEDEN Scandinavien.   :facepalm:
http://www.lineaudio.se/CM3.html :facepalm:

Yes, sorry about that - mobile typing fail.
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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2016, 10:40:15 AM »

Thanks for the clarification.  I assume that I should still use a BB?

Yes. If you are taping metal, you should provide the CA mics with ~9V of power. PIP would work for quiet stuff, but not worth risking overloading/under powering the mics at a loud show.
AKG SE300B CK91
Berliner CM-33
CA-14 omnis
CA 9200
Tascam DR-40, Tascam DR-60D, Tascam DR-22WL
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My recordings on bt.etree
  
My recordings on LMA

Offline yltfan

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2016, 12:09:51 PM »
I know I'm biased, but I bet you could get a good pair of used mics (maybe AKG, AT, or Busman), and a used dr-680 for $600, then you would be able to snag a board feed, run a second pair of mics if you wanted.
Mics: AT4051, AT4053, KM184, Beyerdynamic MEM86 guns, Nak cm300, AKG C1000, AT853 4.7mod
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Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2016, 01:04:39 PM »

Thanks for the clarification.  I assume that I should still use a BB?

Yes. If you are taping metal, you should provide the CA mics with ~9V of power. PIP would work for quiet stuff, but not worth risking overloading/under powering the mics at a loud show.

I can confirm this.  I've run sets of mini/micro mics into the 1/8-inch stereo input of the DR-60D, using a 9v battery box for power.  Works just fine.  You'll only require PFAs if you want to plug your Church/AT mics into the XLR inputs and use the phantom to power them. 


I know I'm biased, but I bet you could get a good pair of used mics (maybe AKG, AT, or Busman), and a used dr-680 for $600, then you would be able to snag a board feed, run a second pair of mics if you wanted.

With the proper cables/adapters, you can easily run a board feed into the 1/8-inch stereo input of the DR-60D. 

Other than it's decidedly unsexy, boxy shape (difficult for stealthing), it's a great little deck.  Surprisingly, it seems to be mostly free of the idiosyncrasies that plague a lot of Tascam's other recorders. 

Offline spaceman.project

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #26 on: March 24, 2016, 02:26:03 PM »

Thanks for the clarification.  I assume that I should still use a BB?

Yes. If you are taping metal, you should provide the CA mics with ~9V of power. PIP would work for quiet stuff, but not worth risking overloading/under powering the mics at a loud show.

I can confirm this.  I've run sets of mini/micro mics into the 1/8-inch stereo input of the DR-60D, using a 9v battery box for power.  Works just fine.  You'll only require PFAs if you want to plug your Church/AT mics into the XLR inputs and use the phantom to power them. 


I know I'm biased, but I bet you could get a good pair of used mics (maybe AKG, AT, or Busman), and a used dr-680 for $600, then you would be able to snag a board feed, run a second pair of mics if you wanted.

With the proper cables/adapters, you can easily run a board feed into the 1/8-inch stereo input of the DR-60D. 

Other than it's decidedly unsexy, boxy shape (difficult for stealthing), it's a great little deck.  Surprisingly, it seems to be mostly free of the idiosyncrasies that plague a lot of Tascam's other recorders.

Thanks for the first-hand account.  I just did some Amazon shopping based on this direction and picked up a few new toys:

 - DR-60DmkII - http://url.ie/zc94 I did some searching on TS and didn't see anything specific to the upgrade and figured I might as well go with the newer version.  Any thoughts?
 - I also found this: http://url.ie/zc91 . Anyone use this?  I have been using 3.5mm since beginning my foray into recording, so had to do some digging into the definition/purpose of a PFA.  I figured I would go for this since I will be using a BB rather than Phantom Power from the dr-60. 
 - New Mic Stand Adapters for my AT 853  http://url.ie/zc92    I am sick of the clips!
 - Something to hold a camera + 4 mics on my stand  http://url.ie/zc93

Thanks all for your insight!
« Last Edit: March 24, 2016, 02:31:13 PM by spaceman.project »

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2016, 03:52:57 PM »
^  Looks like some nice choices. 

Have never used that 3.5 TRS>Dual XLR cable but it looks like it would fit the bill nicely if you want to run into the XLRs on the deck.  Just make absolutely sure you never turn on the 48v phantom to mini Church/AT microphones without using PFAs or you will fry the mics.  Using channels 3&4 (the 1/8-inch input) for those types of mics is like a safety measure; there's no phantom power through those channels on the DR-60D. 

Also, I could've sworn that I recently saw someone in the Yard Sale selling some of those AT mic stand adapters.  Worth taking a look. 

Finally, if you haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'd suggest doing some comparison shopping at B&H Photo/Video online to see if they have better deals.  I can't imagine the prices to be that much different, but you never know. 

Offline lsd2525

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2016, 04:51:04 PM »
^  Looks like some nice choices. 

Have never used that 3.5 TRS>Dual XLR cable but it looks like it would fit the bill nicely if you want to run into the XLRs on the deck.  Just make absolutely sure you never turn on the 48v phantom to mini Church/AT microphones without using PFAs or you will fry the mics.  Using channels 3&4 (the 1/8-inch input) for those types of mics is like a safety measure; there's no phantom power through those channels on the DR-60D. 

Also, I could've sworn that I recently saw someone in the Yard Sale selling some of those AT mic stand adapters.  Worth taking a look. 

Finally, if you haven't pulled the trigger yet, I'd suggest doing some comparison shopping at B&H Photo/Video online to see if they have better deals.  I can't imagine the prices to be that much different, but you never know.

Ted had some adaptors but it was part of a package. Probably wouldn't hurt to check with Darktrain; I think he has them sometimes.
Mics: ADK A51s; AT4041; Superlux S502; CK91 active w/homebrew BB; AT853; Naiant X-X; Nak 300's
Recorders: M10; DR-60D; DR-70D

Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Time to upgrade! - ISO - Rig Guidance
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2016, 12:19:23 PM »
I own the Tascam DR-60d and have really appreciated its user-friendly, rock-solid performance.  I have used it in many different configurations and never had any problems or noise issues.  You can get a used one for under $150 and get some quality used mics/accessories (stand, clips, bar, cables, etc.) with the remainder of your budget.  I have made many matrix recordings in smaller venues using AKG 461's (used $500) and/or Studio Projects C4's (new $350 with multiple caps) into channel 1/2 with phantom 48v and sbd (line-in) into the 3.5mm mini input (channel 3/4).  There are plenty of internal gain settings and easy and relatively quiet external gain dials.  I have also used channel 3/4 mini to directly power my CA-14's through PIP while powering my AKG's with phantom (though you can use UBB).  The BE thing is that you can run this entire rig with a simple and cheap 5V USB battery pack.  I have a 20,000mAh usb pack that cost $20 and runs my rig for approx 15 hours.  Can't beat that!  There are tons of examples of the 60-d in the Live Music Archive to listen to.

Also, you can still run 4 mics with it and use your M-10 for a soundboard feed if available.  Personally, I don't think an external preamp is necessary these days since the recorder pre's are good quality for loud music (unless you want the coloration).  Besides, its just another cog in the system to account for (and another thing in the bag).  Good Luck
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