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Author Topic: Binaural Recommendations  (Read 1571 times)

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Offline fatstratcat

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Binaural Recommendations
« on: May 23, 2016, 09:30:31 AM »
I've been thinking about getting some binaural mics, and was wondering if anyone could recommend a good brand under $500, preferably that have mini-XLRs. I'm also wondering how much of the lower frequencies I'm gonna be losing with them. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!!! ;D
Mics: AT933 w/ AT853 caps (cards, subcards, omnis) / Primo EM172 omnis (4.7k mod)
Bars: AT933 ORTF μBar, AT853 ORTF Active-style bar, fatstratcat DIN bar, 32" omni bar
Pre: Church Audio 3-Wire Ugly II / Church Audio Ugly Battery Box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10 / Edirol R-09

Offline aaronji

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2016, 09:37:41 AM »
I'm also wondering how much of the lower frequencies I'm gonna be losing with them.

Generally speaking, you won't lose much, at least compared to directional mics.  There are probably some small omnis that don't have good low frequency response, but the usual suspects around here (like 4060s or B3s) tend to bring the bass... 

Offline StarkRavingCalm

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2016, 10:41:31 AM »
They may not be people's favorites around here, but I love my Core Sound Binaurals after more than a decade with them.
~$250 with BB. Great for stealthing esp. up close.
Some of my favorite recordings have been made right up front of the stack at loud rock shows with these mics.

They still sound great further away but you get way more audience noise due to their pickup pattern.

Offline fatstratcat

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2016, 11:22:46 AM »
I'm also wondering how much of the lower frequencies I'm gonna be losing with them.

the usual suspects around here (like 4060s or B3s) tend to bring the bass...
I just thought of something... I've been using croakies for  >:D, because I wear glasses it seemed easier than in a hat... are there some DPA 4060 binaurals that don't fit over the ear, but instead go in the ear like earbuds? I'm just trying to get away from using croakies, while still getting good, if not better recordings when I'm up close.
Mics: AT933 w/ AT853 caps (cards, subcards, omnis) / Primo EM172 omnis (4.7k mod)
Bars: AT933 ORTF μBar, AT853 ORTF Active-style bar, fatstratcat DIN bar, 32" omni bar
Pre: Church Audio 3-Wire Ugly II / Church Audio Ugly Battery Box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10 / Edirol R-09

Offline pillowman

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2016, 01:57:24 PM »
óla !
I've a used pair of DPA4061 w/3,5 mm plug up for sale,
if there is some interest into them just drop me a line,
cheers
...
pm

3x Sony PCM-M10 / TASCAM DR-2d
Sony NH 600 / Sharp MD-MT180(H) / Sony MZ-R35
SP-CMC-8 > AT-ADAPT > AT853 o, c, ATU853 c, hc / AT943 o / 2x Sony ECM-166BC / Sony ECM-717
SP-SPSB-9 / SP-SPSB-10 / CA-9100

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Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2016, 03:54:34 PM »
óla !
I've a used pair of DPA4061 w/3,5 mm plug up for sale,
if there is some interest into them just drop me a line,
cheers
...
pm

This is a great option. I loved my 4060's. They were great for the lower frequencies. As a matter of fact they sometimes were too good...no issue though, just roll off the extra bass in post.

The only negative I found about the 406x's were that they did such a good job replicating the actual sound that they don't sound great when the venue doesn't sound great.

406x > 9V battery box > recorder is going to be be one of the smallest and best sounding rigs you can put together IMO.
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||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Sony M10 |||
||| PLAYBACK: Outlaw Audio RR2150 > Epos ELS8 |||
||| PHOTO: Sony a6000 | Sony 16-50 | Sony 55-210 | Rokinon 14mm | Rokinon 8mm |||
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Offline pillowman

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2016, 12:33:15 PM »
óla !
I've a used pair of DPA4061 w/3,5 mm plug up for sale,
if there is some interest into them just drop me a line,
cheers
...
pm

This is a great option. I loved my 4060's. They were great for the lower frequencies. As a matter of fact they sometimes were too good...no issue though, just roll off the extra bass in post.

The only negative I found about the 406x's were that they did such a good job replicating the actual sound that they don't sound great when the venue doesn't sound great.

406x > 9V battery box > recorder is going to be be one of the smallest and best sounding rigs you can put together IMO.

well said
+1
cheers and happy taping
...
pm
3x Sony PCM-M10 / TASCAM DR-2d
Sony NH 600 / Sharp MD-MT180(H) / Sony MZ-R35
SP-CMC-8 > AT-ADAPT > AT853 o, c, ATU853 c, hc / AT943 o / 2x Sony ECM-166BC / Sony ECM-717
SP-SPSB-9 / SP-SPSB-10 / CA-9100

trading page: www.openingtime.lima-city.de

Offline fandelive

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2016, 02:01:44 PM »
are there some DPA 4060 binaurals that don't fit over the ear, but instead go in the ear like earbuds?

Not DPA's but in your budget : Soundman OKM II Rock Studio Set incl. A3.
Those are built with Sennheiser capsules.

With that being said, you should consider a pair of second hand DPA's. They, indeed, do sound amazing.
Make sure you buy the appropriate model for your use : for moderate SPLs, get 4060's. For loud rock shows, get 4061's.
Mics : Sony ECM-717, SP-BMC-12, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline fatstratcat

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2016, 03:32:24 PM »
are there some DPA 4060 binaurals that don't fit over the ear, but instead go in the ear like earbuds?

 for moderate SPLs, get 4060's. For loud rock shows, get 4061's.
Can the capsules be switched out on the same body?
Mics: AT933 w/ AT853 caps (cards, subcards, omnis) / Primo EM172 omnis (4.7k mod)
Bars: AT933 ORTF μBar, AT853 ORTF Active-style bar, fatstratcat DIN bar, 32" omni bar
Pre: Church Audio 3-Wire Ugly II / Church Audio Ugly Battery Box
Recorders: Sony PCM-M10 / Edirol R-09

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2016, 03:47:23 PM »
are there some DPA 4060 binaurals that don't fit over the ear, but instead go in the ear like earbuds?

 for moderate SPLs, get 4060's. For loud rock shows, get 4061's.
Can the capsules be switched out on the same body?

Nope.

I don't really remember why I went with the 4060's but I never overloaded them even at the loudest shows...but if you want to be safe go with the 4061's.
-24      -12              -6             0       OVER
||||||||||||||||||||||||||| []  
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||| []

||| MICS:  Beyer CK930 ~ Nevaton MCE400 ~ Countryman B3 |||
||| CABLES: Kind Kables |||
||| PREAMPS: Naiant Tinybox | Naiant Littlebox | Naiant IPA | Church BB |||
||| DECKS: Sound Devices MixPre6 | Sony M10 |||
||| PLAYBACK: Outlaw Audio RR2150 > Epos ELS8 |||
||| PHOTO: Sony a6000 | Sony 16-50 | Sony 55-210 | Rokinon 14mm | Rokinon 8mm |||
|||Concert History || LMA Recordings || Live YouTube Channel || Tumblr Concert Blog|||

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2016, 05:00:56 PM »
In very high SPL situations, the 4060 will eventually clip before a 4061.  SPLs of that level of intensity are very, very, loud - like causing permanent ear damage loud.  However according to the DPA specifications, the distortion produced by the microphone prior to reaching SPLs that level isn't significantly different between the two. 

These mics do not roll off the bass, they are flat to a very low frequency. Note that a microphone's physical size has no relation to its low frequency sensitivity, and these will pull as much bass as any full sized omni.  The few times I've experienced distortion using 4060, its been the low bass content range where the SPLs have been high enough to cause audible distortion. 

Because the 4060 has a considerably higher sensitivity than the 4061, it will produce a significantly hotter output for the same SPL.  So sometimes it's not the microphone itself but the following component (preamp or recorder) overloading and causing the audible distortion.   I've had more instances of distortion caused by insufficient preamp battery voltage than by the mics themselves distorting.  But in the end a distorted recording is a distorted recording, and it matters less where that distortion occurs than that it is occurring in the first place, unless you can address and correct for it next time (by changing the preamp or it's battery or whatever). 

Given that, choosing the 4061 is a safer bet if you occasionally record very very loud stuff, as long as you aren't concerned with also occasionally recording very, very quiet stuff as well.  If you want to record really quiet material where you can hear the person next to you breathing too loudly, the 4060's lower self-noise and higher sensitivity make it more suitable.  Either will do just fine for most recording situations, which generally lie between those two extremes.

Here's the relevant differences in specification between the two-

DPA 4060
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz:                               20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:                                  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Equivalent noise level, ITU-R BS.468-4:                           Typ. 35 dB (max. 38 dB)
S/N ratio (A-weighted), re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):    71 dB(A)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):                                       < 1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak; < 1% THD up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:                                                                Typ. 100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:                                        134 dB

DPA 4061
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz:                               6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa [lower]
Equivalent noise level, A-weighted:                                  Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A)) [higher]
Equivalent noise level, ITU-R BS.468-4:                           Typ. 38 dB (max. 40 dB)  [higher]
S/N ratio (A-weighted), re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):    68 dB(A) [lower]
Total harmonic distortion (THD):                                       < 1% THD up to 123 dB SPL peak; < 1% THD up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine  [same]
Dynamic range:                                                                Typ. 97 dB [lower]
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:                                        144 dB [higher]
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Offline fandelive

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2016, 07:48:41 AM »
I've had more instances of distortion caused by insufficient preamp battery voltage than by the mics themselves distorting.

The (now discontinued) DPA MMA 6000 preamp that was designed to be used with the 406x's needed a 9V battery (said to last for about 24 hours only).
So I guess it's not a good idea to power these mics with either less juice (distortion) or more juice (you could fry your mics).
Mics : Sony ECM-717, SP-BMC-12, MM-HLSC-1 (4.7k mod), 2x DPA4060, 2x DPA4061
Battery box : SP-SPSB-6524 w/bass roll-off filter, MM-CBM-1
Preamp : Church Audio CA-9100
Recorders : Sony MZR-700PC, Edirol R-09HR, Tascam DR-2d

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Binaural Recommendations
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2016, 08:31:18 AM »
Before they stop working entirely, below a certain supply voltage the sensitivity drops as does the SPL level at which audible distortion may be heard.  DPA specifies 5V, but up to 10V is fine.
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