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Author Topic: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?  (Read 1407 times)

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Offline djs

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Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« on: July 12, 2016, 01:48:16 AM »
Hi everyone,

Haven't taped anything since 2012. Life, you know?

Anyway, I got a dusty Oade-modded FR2LE from someone here years ago and a pair of Busman BSC-1s (these still fashionable?). Fairly happy with what they produced but all-in-all the set is just a little bulky. The FR2LE alone is a beast and with battery packs and mics and cables and notepads it's just a handful. Tech just gets increasingly smaller each year and I'm wondering if there's anything important I've missed out on since my hiatus. Maybe a new rig is what I need to get back out there, maybe not.

Was just hoping some of you kind folks would point me in the direction of some of the newer recorders and/or mic sets that might help reduce footprint without killing quality. 24bit/48000hz or more preferred but not strictly required. Budget is flexible. Unfortunately, not many taper-friendly shows in my vicinity these days but I might be moving back to a friendly zone in the near future -- in which case the budget is more flexible. Ideally sub-$1k with everything included (extra bats, memory cards, etc). XLR is probably the only I'm not interesting in upgrading.

So anyone got any ideas? Never recorded straight from SBD but would like the option. Would also be open to recommendations for a minimalist SBD-only rig to spice up my life with some matrix mixes using existing gear. If there's any equipment you've been satisfied with that seems to meet my criteria, I'd love to hear about it... Really! Pimp your gear to me! Looking to reignite my love affair with the scene and some hot new gear should do the trick.

If anyone's interested, I'll entertain the sale of the FR2LE and Busman's if I end up assembling a new rig, but I can't provide pics or ship them until early-mid September. Just shoot me a PM if you want me to follow-up when I can get my hands back on them. I want to say the Busman's are numbered around 80 but can't say for sure, it's been awhile. Maybe they're in the 90s.

Sorry if this is in the wrong sub, it's been a bit. Please move accordingly if so.

Thanks everyone!

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2016, 02:05:33 AM »
Keep the busmans. I love mine.

The Tascam DR70D with 1.13 or 1.14 firmware is solid and easy to power with USB battery packs. 4 channels with XLR/1/4" TRS combo jacks.

I run this rig for onstage + board often and when I record two channel, I record a safety track at lower gain settings (dual record) in case channels 1 and 2 clip.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

http://kennedy-williams.net/scoobiesnax/

Offline daspyknows

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2016, 09:56:55 AM »
Are you planning to tape open?  stealth?  both?  With stealth you will need to go small since the search has gotten harder with wands, metal detectors etc due to the crazy world we live in. 

Check yard sale, there is mid priced gear that can be had at reasonable prices.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2016, 10:07:47 AM »
The DR70D is inexpensive but some have had issues with it, mainly not buying or using approved cards. We have been using a TAscam DR680 mkI for about 8 months now and really dig it. It is about twice the footprint as the Dr70D, but prolly a bit smaller than the FR2LE. Main advantage over the 70D is 6 channels, but only 4 XLR, the other two channels are balanced (TRS) 1/4 inch. Uses SD cards and has been solid for us so far. We got ours used in the YS for $325.
I don't have experience with the Busmans but many folks here like them, so the only mics I could rec are any set of AKG actives, prolly find some used although they seem to be getting "rare" to find. There was a Custom Neumann SKM-140 / Naiant PFA Rig chopped for active use in the YS, but over your budget ($1,400) . Would be awesome set up though. (not affiliated)
Whatever it is, get out there and record some live music!  :nightfevah:
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline dnsacks

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2016, 04:48:50 PM »
Specs for the FR2LE indicate it would run for 8 hours using 4x nimh aa-sized batteries (internal) -- suspect that it may well run a lot longer using newer technology rechargable NiMH batteries -- wondering what you'd gain in portability going to a different recorder and whether you'd still need the other accessories (pads, etc.) if switching to a different deck.  Do you still have the FR2LE's internal battery pack?  Perhaps you could start by slimming down your existing rig/recorder to its essentials and then decide whether you're more interested in smaller mics or a smaller recorder.  Doug Oade's mods to these decks' analog sections are really nice and I'd suspect the options discussed above would result in a step back, sonically.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2016, 11:18:22 PM »
Specs for the FR2LE indicate it would run for 8 hours using 4x nimh aa-sized batteries (internal) -- suspect that it may well run a lot longer using newer technology rechargable NiMH batteries -- wondering what you'd gain in portability going to a different recorder and whether you'd still need the other accessories (pads, etc.) if switching to a different deck.  Do you still have the FR2LE's internal battery pack?  Perhaps you could start by slimming down your existing rig/recorder to its essentials and then decide whether you're more interested in smaller mics or a smaller recorder.  Doug Oade's mods to these decks' analog sections are really nice and I'd suspect the options discussed above would result in a step back, sonically.
I/m gonna agree with dnsacks here. Your deck with Oade mod would most certainly have better pre-amps thus would be sonically favored over the DR70D or DR680 (unless you found one of them Oade modded).
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

Mics:         AKG460|CK61|CK1|CK3|CK8|Beyer M 201E
Recorders:Marantz PMD661 OADE Concert mod; Tascam DR680 MKI

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 11:31:40 PM »
I started taping again after a long time. I have Telefunken M60/62 (cardiods and hypers) which I like a lot but just started using a Schoeps MK4 &  KC Active/Naiant PFA combo and like this even more. The active setups add a lot of versatility to me and make open and stealth taping easier with one setup. I am probably going to sell my Telefunkens and get a pair of MK41vs to add to the active setup...
MK22's / MK41's / MK41v's / MK4v's / MK4's / AKG C480Bs+ck61, ck63 / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s
KCY 250/5 and Nbob KCY (x2) > naiant PFA or IPA or Nbox  / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Sony M-10 / Mixpre-6 / Tascam DR-100mkIII

Offline splumer

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2016, 09:43:40 AM »
All the hipsters are using reel-to-reel.








 ;D
"God love you, Dr. Dre, you’ve made some amazing music and some forward steps in the digital era, but that sound is fake. "
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Offline djs

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2016, 02:15:41 AM »
Thank you to all who responded!

ScoobieKW : I'll take a closer look at the DR70D... is this all the rage these days? It looks great. The Dual Recording feature reads really well. That Andy Coe Peggy-O sounds great, like your rig captures better than the venue speakers output. I feel like any frequencies that sound weaker than they would un-amped in person are coming from the venue's setup, not yours. Impressive.

rocksuitcase, I'll take a look at the DR680 too, tbh though neither of these Tascams seem to reduce the footprint of the FR2LE much. Thank you also on the modded FR2LE feedback.

daspyknows: I only tape open, never stealth. Fortunately my tastes align with taper-friendly musicians. I wouldn't want to damage respect to tapers by running stealth and getting busted, or having the non-taper-friendly musicians see these recordings online, but I do understand the urge to tape stealth. Why let those crunchy waves disappear when they can be preserved?

dnsacks: Appreciate the response. I don't do festivals like I used to so I'm not as concerned about battery life as I used to be. Maybe it is best to just dust the old rig off. At a certain point and budget, it becomes kind of an endless battle to improve sonically. I might just be jealous that some other tapers can deposit their palm-sized recorders at the soundboard and walk away until end of show.

rippleish20: I'd love some MK4s but unfortunately aren't sure I'll put them to good enough use for their cost. It's just been too many years since I've made taping a habit. I haven't even seen a live show in months. If there's any really special recordings you got that might make me reconsider investing in MK4s, please send them my way!

splumer: If you've got a reel-to-reel that can fit in my back pocket, I'm sold!

Really though, thanks again to all who've responded. It definitely helped to narrow my search a bit and inspired more interest in getting back out there. I was the only taper for about half the shows I recorded in the past, so I can't help but want to get back in the game and preserve more of these smaller & up-and-coming musicians. There's nothing quite like listening to an old recording of a band that made it big!

Offline CorFit Chris

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2016, 02:32:10 PM »
Sounds like your current rig is still good for open recording.  Maybe pick up a second recorder (pocket sized) for shows where you don't want to fuss over equipment.  Patch into someone else's equipment or a soundboard and there you have it!   The Sony PCM-M10, Tascam dr2d, or the Roland R-05 are good investments if you just want to drop off at soundboard for patches.  These seem to be the popular options for pocket sized recorders and can all be found for around $200. 

Later you can pick up a good external preamp and run your current mics through the preamp and pocket recorder. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2016, 02:33:51 PM by CorFit Chris »
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Offline mec111272

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2016, 02:41:46 PM »
Love my Busman BSC-1's.  There are "improved" caps out there, but I am not sure if they are still available from Busman. 
Neumann KM-140,Church Audio Ca-14, Card Omni, CAD e70

Edirol UA-5 (T+ mod), Church Audio CA-9200, M148

Tascam DR2D, Marantz PMD 660 (Oade Songcatcher)

Offline ScoobieKW

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2016, 03:09:34 PM »
To control for just deck, here are two stereo captures with the DR70D and BSC1s.

https://archive.org/details/eo2015-09-11.scoobiesnax
https://archive.org/details/jg2015-09-09.scoobiesnax

The weak point in the ACB recordings is the bar's sound system and sound guy. His mixes are getting better, but...

There are definitely better recorders with better preamps available, however performance for price led me to the DR70D. Now that Tascam has fixed the write problems it's gaining bakc it's favored status for budget recorders.
Busman BSC1, AT853 (O,C),KAM i2 Chuck Mod (C), Nak 300 (C),
M10, UA-5, US-1800, Presonus Firepod

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Out of the scene for a few years... New rig ideas?
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2016, 02:30:56 AM »
If you plan on doing 4 channel or matrix's at any point, and want good sound stock with 4x XLR INS, the Tascam DR70D is a no-brainer IMO 8)

Here's some recent Phish mk41>PFA>DR70D sources :)
2016-06-22
16 Bit BT
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=587190&hit=1
24 Bit BT
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=587198&hit=1

2016-07-10
16 Bit BT
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=587603&hit=1
24 Bit BT
http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=587605&hit=1
« Last Edit: July 21, 2016, 02:33:26 AM by F.O.Bean »
Schoeps MK4's | MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS 02IB | Naiant +60v/Low Noise PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby | GakCable XLR's ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 | Tascam DR-70D ->
128gb | 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDXC-I

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

 

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