Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)  (Read 9922 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
My blog post on this news: http://ironfilm.co.nz/news-leak-zoom-f4-with-six-inputs-and-eight-tracks-is-like-a-new-low-priced-zoom-f8/ (some of it repeated below)

I thought the Zoom F8 when it was announced was a groundbreaking new recorder in what it brought to a new low price point for soundies.

Now the F4 is even cheaper ($650 vs $1K), and has nearly everything the F8 has! Except for most notably the lack of extra XLR inputs (8 vs 4, thus the names: F8 vs F4. The "F" = field recorder, "H" = handheld recorder such as H1/H4n/H5/H6) and the lack of an app for the F4 to mix on a tablet like you can with the F8. Oh, and in a more minor point the F4 has a monochrome screen vs the 4 color screen of the F8.

But everything else (such as pre amps, and time code) is basically exactly the same as the F8!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-7wTzEQzM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tlJYn3hci0


Here is the blurb and specs list from B&H (page is currently down, you need to use Google cache to view it):

Quote
Designed to provide big Hollywood sound on an affordable indie budget, Zoom F4 is a 6-input / 8-track professional field recorder featuring super-low-noise preamps and timecode with pinpoint accuracy. The unit provides recording and playback resolutions up to 24-bit/192 kHz with impressive audio specs including an extremely low noise floor (-127 dBu EIN) and high gain (up to +75 dB), with +4 dB line-level inputs. The on-board temperature-compensated crystal oscillator (TCXO) generates timecode at 0.2 ppm accuracy and supports all standard drop-frame and non-drop formats, as well as jam sync for external devices.

The advanced on-board limiters provide overload protection for all inputs and outputs, which lets you capture audio in a wide range of environments. Limiting can be applied simultaneously at full resolution with 10 dB of headroom and features controls for setting threshold, attack, and release.

The F4 offers four combo XLR-1/4" inputs, a 1/8" stereo input, and includes a Zoom mic-capsule input for recording six discrete tracks with an additional stereo mix, all at full 24-bit/192 kHz resolution. Additionally, inputs 5/6 can function as a camera return for audio monitoring only for confidence checks. The dual-SD card slot features simultaneous recording to both cards allowing you to make a backup or split recording with all eight tracks on one card and a stereo mix on the other.
Each of the four XLR-1/4" inputs offers a dedicated preamp with gain control, phantom power, a six-segment LED level meter, plus a Record Ready and PFL switch. In addition to the 1/4" headphone output with a dedicated volume control, the F4 provides two main balanced XLR outputs, as well as two sub outs on a single unbalanced 1/8" stereo mini-jack, enabling easy connection to a camera. All timecode I/O is provided on BNC connectors and the unit includes a variable-frequency slate-tone generator to confirm levels.

An easy-to-read 1.9" LCD display is suitable for use in all lighting environments including dark low-light sets to bright sunlight. The on-board mixer not only provides user-adjustable level, pan, and input/output delay, but also offers high-pass filtering for noise and wind reduction, phase inversion, and Mid-Side decoding. The F4 ships with a camera-mount adapter, AC power adapter, and download codes for Cubase LE and Wavelab LE.

Six-input / eight-track multitrack field recorder with integrated mixer

Six discrete inputs, including four with locking Neutrik XLR/TRS combo connectors, a stereo 3.5mm input, and Zoom mic-capsule input

Compact and lightweight metal chassis, weighing just two pounds (without batteries)

High-quality mic preamps with up to 75 dB gain, less than -127 dBu EIN, and +4 dB line inputs

Support for up to 24-bit/192 kHz recording as well as 96, 88.2, 48, and 44.1 kHz, plus 47.952 and 48.048 kHz for HD video compatibility; 16-/24-bit resolution

Accurate timecode (0.2 ppm) I/O on standard BNC connectors; dropframe/non-drop formats with Jam Sync

Two different power supply options: 8x AA batteries or external DC battery pack with 4-pin Hirose connector

Dedicated gain control knob, 6-segment LED level meter, and PFL/Solo switch for each channel

Phantom power (+48V/+24V) on every preamp

Advanced on-board limiters for input and output

High-pass filter, phase invert, and Mid-Side decoder

Input delay of up to 30ms per channel / output delay of up to 10 frames per output

Compatible with all Zoom mic capsules; optional ECM extender cable enables remote positioning

Dual XLR balanced Main Outs plus 1/8" stereo mini-jack Sub Out

Dedicated headphone output (100mW) with front-panel volume control

1.9” white, backlit monochrome LCD

Dedicated PFL display with viewable trim settings

Dual SD/SDHC/SDXC card slots, up to 512GB each

Records in BWF-compliant WAV or MP3 file formats

Support for extensive metadata (BWF and iXML); input time, date, project, scene number, etc.

Built-in tripod mount; camera-mount adapter also included

Use as a 6-in/4-out USB audio interface (@ 96 kHz)

Offline Life In Rewind

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2016, 11:57:45 AM »
Cool - this must be what they were teasing Facebook the past few weeks...
Audix M1280/Avantone CK-1/APEX 435/Altec 626A/TEAC ME-120/Sony ECM-999PR/Sony ECM-MS5
TASCAM DR-70D/Tricorder

Offline nolamule

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
  • where's my mule?
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2016, 11:59:39 AM »
Looks good and the knobs are bigger than the F8. :coolguy:

Offline Sebastian

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2016, 02:47:27 PM »
Here's Zoom's product page: https://www.zoom-na.com/products/field-video-recording/field-recording/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder

Looks like 4 inputs, with the ability to record safety tracks for two of them (which I always find extremely helpful for SBD sources for which you can't guess the levels beforehand). It also works with the EXH-6. That gives you two additional analog inputs. Also, they now seem to be including a DC to Hirose adapter cable, which is nice.
A little disappointing is the fact that the XLR mic inputs are still 20dB hotter than the TRS line inputs. But that can be solved with simple attenuator cables. Also, the SD card slots were moved to the back of the unit, compared to the F8. But with cards of 64GB and more, I doubt this is a problem for anyone. I just don't understand that design choice as the F4's dimensions are exactly the same as the F8's.

At that price point, the F4 looks like a perfect recorder for AUD/SBD mixes and similar situations. I'd be all over this if I hadn't gotten myself a F8 earlier this year.
{Schoeps MK4 > NBob actives | MBHO KA 200 N} > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Zoom F8 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2094
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2016, 03:20:49 PM »
^ The way I read it, you can also get six channels from the XLRs plus a stereo 1/8" input.

Off topic a bit, but do you find that you generally need attenuators with the F8?

Offline HJD

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2016, 03:26:23 PM »
Thanks for posting this IronFilm and for the writing up that detailed blog post! :) It just great that high quality preamps are becoming more affordable. I'm quite tempted by the F4 and look forward to reviews, but if the F8 is anything to go by, then the F4 should be a winner ;)

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2016, 04:06:01 PM »
Off topic a bit, but do you find that you generally need attenuators with the F8?

I don't.  When i bought my f8 a year ago I also bought a pair of in-line attenuators while I was awaiting delivery bc i didn't like the idea of using TR or TRS connectors instead of xlrs.  Since then I've become a bit of a fan of using my TRS connectors.  Mine are right angle and the size of my bag is such that there's no risk of them being pulled out accidentally.  They're super easy to install and remove without the need to pull the recorder out like you generally have to with locking xlrs.  Best of all is that they rotate to whatever exit angle / position you need them to. 

Offline Sebastian

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1047
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2016, 05:31:47 PM »
Off topic a bit, but do you find that you generally need attenuators with the F8?

The first time I used it, the levels got a bit too hot for my tastes with the gain all the way down. I always used the attenuators since then.

I don't.  When i bought my f8 a year ago I also bought a pair of in-line attenuators while I was awaiting delivery bc i didn't like the idea of using TR or TRS connectors instead of xlrs.  Since then I've become a bit of a fan of using my TRS connectors.  Mine are right angle and the size of my bag is such that there's no risk of them being pulled out accidentally.  They're super easy to install and remove without the need to pull the recorder out like you generally have to with locking xlrs.  Best of all is that they rotate to whatever exit angle / position you need them to. 

Yeah, I'd totally use TRS plugs, but the F8 does not pass phantom power through them.
{Schoeps MK4 > NBob actives | MBHO KA 200 N} > {Naiant Tinybox v2.0 | Naiant IPA | Naiant PFAs} > {Zoom F8 | Sony PCM-M10 | Tascam DR-2d}

Recordings:
Live Music Archive | DaD Torrents | TTD Torrents | Etree Torrents

Online Hypnocracy

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (38)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • *
  • Posts: 1789
  • Hypnocratic Missionary
    • Hypno on teh LMA
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2016, 06:11:45 PM »
Toney uses a external Preamp, not the onboard pre's of his F8.

The 1/4" inputs for Line Levels and XLR for Mic/Phantom Power is a "feature". I have that same feature on my old Fostex FR2LE. Saves the real estate, of which there is not much on these two units,  needed for a switch to choose Line or Mic (like the Mic/Line switch on DR680). It just requires you to be prepared with the right cables for the desired type of input.
_____________
hypno on teh Archive

This must be heaven -- This is where the rainbow ends. At last it's the real thing...At least I can pretend.

Mic's: Gefell SMS2000 M20 & M21 - Nbob Gefell Active Collet/Naiant PFA - AT853 O-ELE & C-ELE - Milab VM-44 Links Cardioid - Naiant AKG Active/CK63 Hypercardioid
Preamp's; Grace V2, Aerco MP-2, Neve Portico 5012, CA-Ugly V1
Deck's: Tascam DR-2d - Fostex FR2-LE Busman Tmod - Tascam DR-680

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2793
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2016, 06:19:22 PM »
To make sure I'm reading the specs correctly, this recorder has 4 XLR/TRS inputs and another input(s) for channels 5 and 6, yes?  In the pictures of the deck it appears that there are two ways to do the 5/6 input: an 1/8-inch (presumably stereo) plug and there's something else on the back of the device next to the SD card door.  Anyone know what type of input that is?  TIA. 

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2016, 07:32:22 PM »
Yeah, I'd totally use TRS plugs, but the F8 does not pass phantom power through them.

Excellent point of course, which I absent-mindedly didn't make in my response.  If I didn't use the phantom from my external preamps, I'd definitely be putting my attenuators to use.

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2016, 08:54:50 PM »
To make sure I'm reading the specs correctly, this recorder has 4 XLR/TRS inputs and another input(s) for channels 5 and 6, yes?  In the pictures of the deck it appears that there are two ways to do the 5/6 input: an 1/8-inch (presumably stereo) plug and there's something else on the back of the device next to the SD card door.  Anyone know what type of input that is?  TIA.

That is adding on the same accessories used by the F8/H6/H5. Which includes the option to add in two more XLR inputs.

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (117)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40406
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2016, 11:03:52 PM »
I really like the ability to do Channels 5/6 with the 1/8" stereo input! I RARELY get SBD patches, but that 1/8" input would sure come in handy for when I DO get a sbd patch and run 4 channels of DAUD mics! I also wish the XLR INs were possible of Line Levels, but its not a huge deal in the end I guess! But a really nice package/deal overall IMO, and makes me look away from the 701D for awhile, since this does have that 1/8" IN for 2 more channels! I just wish it was able to be powered with that USB connector, since I do LOVE that about the 70d/701d!
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2016, 11:17:23 PM »
F.O.Bean, I'd take power over hirose any day rather than USB power.

Offline caymanreview

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9699
  • Gender: Male
    • shows ive taped  that are in circulation
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2016, 01:08:48 AM »
i hope the display is just a generic idea or switchable like the f8

this looks very interesting to me. the f8 is way overkill for me, and this would be perfect see ingly

but the display in the pics on b&h are absolutely horrible looking! the display and more so level metering on the f8 is its downfall. inaccuracy compared to everything else ive ran kind of irks me

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (117)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40406
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2016, 03:36:16 AM »
F.O.Bean, I'd take power over hirose any day rather than USB power.

I agree about the Hirose and its locking ability! But I just love how easy it is to power things with USB batteries, that's all 8)

Cayman, yeah, I wish the screen was as nice as the F8's too! That's a little off putting to me, but not a huge deal as long as the levels are accurate
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline nolamule

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 405
  • where's my mule?
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2016, 10:56:06 AM »
i hope the display is just a generic idea or switchable like the f8

this looks very interesting to me. the f8 is way overkill for me, and this would be perfect see ingly

but the display in the pics on b&h are absolutely horrible looking! the display and more so level metering on the f8 is its downfall. inaccuracy compared to everything else ive ran kind of irks me

The display and metering looks terrible in the photos which is a drag because the rest of the specs look great. Can you link tracks on the F8/F4 so that one dial is gain and the other is balance?

Offline caymanreview

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9699
  • Gender: Male
    • shows ive taped  that are in circulation
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2016, 11:46:54 AM »
bean- my opinion is the f8 display is horrible, anything less is a dealbreaker for me. the f8 metering is the worst part about it i think once you put 3d printed knobs over the stock knobs

nola, no

Offline vwmule

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2016, 12:28:26 PM »
Agree that F8 metering isn't great. Know with 24-bit you can run levels more conservative but I still like to get them warm.
Mics: DPA 4023 / AKG C426B / AKG ck61 ck62
Recorders: Zoom F8 / Tascam DR-70D / Sony M-10
Preamps: Tinybox / Littlebox

stevetoney

  • Guest
  • Trade Count: (0)
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2016, 04:14:20 PM »
Sorry guys but I'm not with you on F8 metering.  It's every bit as accurate as, and has the exact same resolution as the meters/lights on a sound devices recorder.  Of course I'm talking about the display, not the tiny meters above the knobs.

Now if you're talking about the size of the stock knobs and how easy they are to use that's a different story.

Offline pohaku

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 723
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2016, 05:51:47 PM »
Sorry guys but I'm not with you on F8 metering.  It's every bit as accurate as, and has the exact same resolution as the meters/lights on a sound devices recorder.  Of course I'm talking about the display, not the tiny meters above the knobs.

Now if you're talking about the size of the stock knobs and how easy they are to use that's a different story.

I agree with TD on the metering - the display metering seems fine. What issues do you have?  If folks have been complaining about the metering on this thread, I must have missed it.

I got small fingers so I have no issues with the knobs.  Would it be better if they were bigger - sure, but they work fine for me.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2016, 08:24:04 PM »


Little known fun fact: the Zoom F4 can also record to Blu-ray disks as well as SD cards! ;-)

As the new Zoom F4 is "#1 New Release in Blu-ray Recorders" on Amazon, that is a new feature we didn't hear about from Zoom​...  that it can record not just to SD cards but to Blu-rays as well! ;-)  ha

That isn't even the oddest thing about this Amazon listing, it  indicates the RRP is $799 and won't ship until November 30th! :-o

Yet Zoom has stated pricing of $650 and shipping in October ( B&H Photo Video Pro Audio​ has expected availability of October 11th), thus I'm guessing that is two more things Amazon got wrong.

https://www.amazon.com/Zoom-F4-Input-Multitrack-Recorder/dp/B01LOR91FC/

Offline jefflester

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 740
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2016, 09:38:40 PM »
To make sure I'm reading the specs correctly, this recorder has 4 XLR/TRS inputs and another input(s) for channels 5 and 6, yes?  In the pictures of the deck it appears that there are two ways to do the 5/6 input: an 1/8-inch (presumably stereo) plug and there's something else on the back of the device next to the SD card door.  Anyone know what type of input that is?  TIA.

That is adding on the same accessories used by the F8/H6/H5. Which includes the option to add in two more XLR inputs.
The accessories include several different mics like:
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/product-accessories/xyh-5-xy-stereo-microphone-capsule

But the adapter for XLR inputs is the one most of us would presumably use:
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/product-accessories/exh-6-dual-xlrtrs-input-capsule



DPA4061 HEB/AT943>CA-UGLY -> R-09
Samson C02/Superlux S502 -> DR-680MKII
AKG CK63 -> ...

Offline greenmtnsrider

  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 141
    • My Shows
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2016, 11:04:13 PM »
I've been eyeing an F8 for a little while now, and this pops up. My understanding and please correct me if I'm wrong but line level input can be achieved by using 1/4" vs xlr. So xlr will be mic level and the 1/4" would be line level? Also, I'm not too keen on that xlr adapter thing shown in the above post, seems like something would go wrong at the worst time. Who knows. I'm happy with my busman 680 at the moment, I haven't actually utilized the upgraded pres on my 680 yet, but the idea of not using external pres is compelling. Less weight in the bag isn't a bad thing.
Mics: AKG C414 XLII/ST| AKG SE 300B/Ck91, Ck 92 Ck93| Church Audio CA-14 (C/O)| Tascam iM2
Preamps: Shure FP24| UA-5 warm mod| Naiant tinybox| Naiant PIPsqueak x 2| Denecke PS-2
Decks:Tascam DR-680 Busman Mod| Tascam DR-2D x2
Cables: GAKables XLR

Offline pohaku

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 723
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2016, 11:21:44 PM »
You are correct on the line v. Mic inputs on the F8.  The add on 2 xlr adapter is interesting.  Apparently can be added to the F8 as well although I don't really foresee needing that many tracks.  It would be a relatively inexpensive way to add 2 inputs though since it only runs about $70.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline caymanreview

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9699
  • Gender: Male
    • shows ive taped  that are in circulation
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2016, 12:01:31 AM »
i had alot of issues with the stock knobs until installing the 3d printed knobs, and now i have no complaints about that

as far as the levels, ive grown used to them, but i liked the accuracy of my 671 more than the f8. maybe i need to play with the view some more

Steve, which display mode do you use for level meters?? How high is everyone pushign their f8's? ive ran mine to the point of getting the clip light top stick a time or two a show


Offline vwmule

  • Trade Count: (11)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2016, 12:29:26 AM »
Good question: Which display mode are you using? I get people like options, but the various screens get confusing.

Does feel like you can push the unit more than the levels suggest, as I often come home and realize I had more room.

Apologies for hijacking thread but it kinda fits.
Mics: DPA 4023 / AKG C426B / AKG ck61 ck62
Recorders: Zoom F8 / Tascam DR-70D / Sony M-10
Preamps: Tinybox / Littlebox

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2016, 06:22:13 AM »
You are correct on the line v. Mic inputs on the F8.  The add on 2 xlr adapter is interesting.  Apparently can be added to the F8 as well although I don't really foresee needing that many tracks.  It would be a relatively inexpensive way to add 2 inputs though since it only runs about $70.

I believe that 2 XLR attachment does not pass phantom power though, even though it accepts line and mic level.  Those attachments came out for the H6, and I remember thinking of how cheap that was to have a 6 mic input recorder, only to find out that phantom can only be supplied to 4.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 2094
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2016, 07:45:17 AM »
Yeah, I'd totally use TRS plugs, but the F8 does not pass phantom power through them.

Excellent point of course, which I absent-mindedly didn't make in my response.  If I didn't use the phantom from my external preamps, I'd definitely be putting my attenuators to use.

Thanks, guys.  The maximum input spec is kind of difficult to interpret for both the F4 and F8 (it is with the "10 dB headroom limiter" on); I assume it is 4 dBu with the limiter off?  Factor in the minimum 10 dB gain and a little headroom and it gets pretty tight (especially since my main mics are ~ 9.8 dB more sensitive than, say, MK4s).  Still pretty interesting as an all-in-one, though, even if some attenuators might be necessary.  I am pretty sure Naiant even sells XLR cables with attenuation built into the connectors...

Offline jbell

  • TDS
  • Trade Count: (125)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3713
  • Gender: Male
  • Spreadicated
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2016, 04:41:54 PM »
I preordered one!  I was looking into more expensive solutions, but I don't run 4 channels very often so figured I'd give the f4 a shot.  I can run my tinybox on the 5/6 to run 6 channels of mics and still have a really small foot print. 
Schoeps MK4's, MK41's> KCY 250/5 Ig> Schoeps VMS 5U> Sony PCM-M10

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (117)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40406
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2016, 05:10:31 PM »
I preordered one!  I was looking into more expensive solutions, but I don't run 4 channels very often so figured I'd give the f4 a shot.  I can run my tinybox on the 5/6 to run 6 channels of mics and still have a really small foot print. 

Exactly! This is exactly what Ive been thinking, JBell! That 1/8" IN on 5/6 is pretty damn cool, and would be perfect for someone like me who almost ALWAYS runs 4 channels, but has the ability to get a SBD patch, even though it doesn't happen very often 8) That's the biggest selling point to me right now!

I kinda wish the F4 case was smaller than the F8's, but the F8 isn't THAT big to begin with, so no biggie there. I just wished Zoom would've used a smaller case/chassis, because I love how tiny my 70D is!
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2793
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2016, 01:33:02 PM »
That is adding on the same accessories used by the F8/H6/H5. Which includes the option to add in two more XLR inputs.
The accessories include several different mics like:
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/product-accessories/xyh-5-xy-stereo-microphone-capsule

But the adapter for XLR inputs is the one most of us would presumably use:
https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/product-accessories/exh-6-dual-xlrtrs-input-capsule

Thank you for the info and clarification, jefflester and IronFilm.  While a proprietary add-on/connector is a nuisance, it's good to know that Zoom makes it so that you can use the same one among their devices. 

Offline connloyalist

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Gender: Female
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2016, 05:43:58 AM »
If I understand correctly that EXH-6 module does have two pre-amps, since it accepts mic level input. Any thoughts on the quality of those pre-amps? I am assuming quite a bit less than the F4/F8?

Regards, Christine

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2016, 07:47:01 AM »
If I understand correctly that EXH-6 module does have two pre-amps, since it accepts mic level input. Any thoughts on the quality of those pre-amps? I am assuming quite a bit less than the F4/F8?

Regards, Christine

Preamps, yes.  Phantom power, no.  The Zoom website has almost no info on the EXH-6, but the description from dealers makes its features clear.  From B&H:
Quote
The EXH-6 from Zoom adds two additional XLR/TRS combo inputs to the Zoom H5 and H6 handheld recorders. This makes the H5 capable of recording up to four external signals simultaneously, and the H6 up to six. Capable of handling either mic or line-level signals, each input is equipped with its own preamp and -20 dB pad. Please note, this module does not provide phantom power.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline connloyalist

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Gender: Female
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2016, 07:51:46 AM »
To me that suggests the pre-amps are H6 quality. Agreed?

Regards, Christine

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2016, 08:49:20 AM »
To me that suggests the pre-amps are H6 quality. Agreed?

Regards, Christine

The EXT-6 first came out as an accessory when the H6 was released, and it also connects to the H5 and Q8 (and now the F8 and F4 as well).  Given that it does not pass P48, who knows what other differences there are compared to the built-in H6 preamps? 

Since the EXT-6 has been out for a quite a while as an accessory for those other units, we can safely assume that it doesn't have the new higher-quality preamps of the F4 / F8.  Zoom does not publish block diagrams for these accessories, so unless someone opens one up it's unclear exactly what's going on in there.  So that means its preamps are certainly not going to be higher quality than those in the H6, and they might actually be lower. 

This attachment is only going to be useful for mics that don't need phantom, unless you're using an external preamp or power supply in which case the its effects on the sound are going to be minimized.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 08:51:02 AM by voltronic »
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline Life In Rewind

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2016, 10:07:27 AM »
To me that suggests the pre-amps are H6 quality. Agreed?

Regards, Christine

The EXT-6 first came out as an accessory when the H6 was released, and it also connects to the H5 and Q8 (and now the F8 and F4 as well).  Given that it does not pass P48, who knows what other differences there are compared to the built-in H6 preamps? 

Since the EXT-6 has been out for a quite a while as an accessory for those other units, we can safely assume that it doesn't have the new higher-quality preamps of the F4 / F8.  Zoom does not publish block diagrams for these accessories, so unless someone opens one up it's unclear exactly what's going on in there.  So that means its preamps are certainly not going to be higher quality than those in the H6, and they might actually be lower. 

This attachment is only going to be useful for mics that don't need phantom, unless you're using an external preamp or power supply in which case the its effects on the sound are going to be minimized.

Its probably a mistake to assume the adapter contains the pre-amps...

Not impossible the internals contain extra preamps (especially if this is the same chips as the F8) - and the adapter only houses the control knobs.
Audix M1280/Avantone CK-1/APEX 435/Altec 626A/TEAC ME-120/Sony ECM-999PR/Sony ECM-MS5
TASCAM DR-70D/Tricorder

Offline connloyalist

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Gender: Female
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #37 on: September 11, 2016, 10:23:25 AM »
Its probably a mistake to assume the adapter contains the pre-amps...

Not impossible the internals contain extra preamps (especially if this is the same chips as the F8) - and the adapter only houses the control knobs.

That would be an interesting scenario.....  :hmmm:

Regards, Christine


Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #38 on: September 11, 2016, 02:09:26 PM »
To me that suggests the pre-amps are H6 quality. Agreed?

Regards, Christine

The EXT-6 first came out as an accessory when the H6 was released, and it also connects to the H5 and Q8 (and now the F8 and F4 as well).  Given that it does not pass P48, who knows what other differences there are compared to the built-in H6 preamps? 

Since the EXT-6 has been out for a quite a while as an accessory for those other units, we can safely assume that it doesn't have the new higher-quality preamps of the F4 / F8.  Zoom does not publish block diagrams for these accessories, so unless someone opens one up it's unclear exactly what's going on in there.  So that means its preamps are certainly not going to be higher quality than those in the H6, and they might actually be lower. 

This attachment is only going to be useful for mics that don't need phantom, unless you're using an external preamp or power supply in which case the its effects on the sound are going to be minimized.

Its probably a mistake to assume the adapter contains the pre-amps...

Not impossible the internals contain extra preamps (especially if this is the same chips as the F8) - and the adapter only houses the control knobs.


That's a fair point - it could just be controls and connectors.  It says "each input is equipped with its own preamp" but it doesn't specify where that preamp circuit actually is.  The proof would be if the other mic attachments they sell have a preamp built into them or not. 

I just noticed that in the B&H sales page I linked earlier, I forgot to include the last part which may be relevant:
Quote

The EXH-6 from Zoom adds two additional XLR/TRS combo inputs to the Zoom H5 and H6 handheld recorders. This makes the H5 capable of recording up to four external signals simultaneously, and the H6 up to six. Capable of handling either mic or line-level signals, each input is equipped with its own preamp and -20 dB pad. Please note, this module does not provide phantom power.

    Two 5 volt preamps for to minimize distortion even at high volumes


I'm going to guess that the 2 x 5V powering is likely the same as what is provided as polarization for the other mic attachments that work on that same port - in other words, they're all made to work on Plug-In Power.  It also doesn't appear that there's any way to disable the 5V when using the EXH-6, but that's low enough that you probably aren't going to damage a dynamic mic or a line level source attached.

The real problem I have with that sales statement is that it's misleading.  It says that it doesn't supply phantom power, which is true if you're talking about the voltage specs for that term.  But it says that it supplies 2 X 5V, without using the term "plug-in-power".  For someone who doesn't understand what kind of condenser mics need which kind of powering, this might cause confusion, especially since most big-brand PIP mics connect via a minijack, whereas this has two XLR/TRS combo inputs, which look identical to the other inputs on Zoom recorders people are plugging their mics into.

A coworker bought an H6 a while back and he picked up the EXH-6 with it, thinking he could connect six P48 mics to it.  I had to break it to him that it wouldn't work that way.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline pohaku

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 723
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2016, 04:12:52 PM »

I asked the EXH-6 preamp question of Zoom in a comment to their FB ad post and got the following response.  So as indicated above, the preamps are the H6 preamps.  It adds two tracks to the F4, but not to the F8.


"EXH-6 preamps are the same H6 preamps. When used with F4 it can provide 5th and 6th XLR/line inputs. With F8 it would just replace 1 and 2 (not as useful). For the F8, the mic capsule input is more for the rest of our interchangeable capsules."
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline connloyalist

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Gender: Female
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2016, 04:17:05 PM »

I asked the EXH-6 preamp question of Zoom in a comment to their FB ad post and got the following response.  So as indicated above, the preamps are the H6 preamps.  It adds two tracks to the F4, but not to the F8.


"EXH-6 preamps are the same H6 preamps. When used with F4 it can provide 5th and 6th XLR/line inputs. With F8 it would just replace 1 and 2 (not as useful). For the F8, the mic capsule input is more for the rest of our interchangeable capsules."

Thank you for getting that cleared up.

Regards, Christine

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #41 on: September 11, 2016, 04:35:08 PM »

I asked the EXH-6 preamp question of Zoom in a comment to their FB ad post and got the following response.  So as indicated above, the preamps are the H6 preamps.  It adds two tracks to the F4, but not to the F8.


"EXH-6 preamps are the same H6 preamps. When used with F4 it can provide 5th and 6th XLR/line inputs. With F8 it would just replace 1 and 2 (not as useful). For the F8, the mic capsule input is more for the rest of our interchangeable capsules."

That's a pretty odd response, IMO.  First of all, if it only passes 5V instead of 48V, is it really the "same" preamp?  Also, if what they say about the F4 and F8 is true, then they should list the EXT-6 as incompatible with the F8 since it is truly downgrading the capabilities of two of the inputs, as opposed to adding functionality.
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline connloyalist

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 75
  • Gender: Female
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #42 on: September 11, 2016, 05:44:23 PM »
Wait a sec.... excuse my ignorance, but it says "Two 5 volt preamps". To me that means the preamps themselves run off 5 volts. Why are we sure that means they pass 5 volts through the XLR connectors to whatever is attached? Doesn't the H6 (for which these modules were designed, right?) itself run off 5 volts?

Regards, Christine

Offline Life In Rewind

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 806
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #43 on: September 11, 2016, 05:59:47 PM »
Wait a sec.... excuse my ignorance, but it says "Two 5 volt preamps". To me that means the preamps themselves run off 5 volts. Why are we sure that means they pass 5 volts through the XLR connectors to whatever is attached? Doesn't the H6 (for which these modules were designed, right?) itself run off 5 volts?

Regards, Christine

That makes a lot more sense
Audix M1280/Avantone CK-1/APEX 435/Altec 626A/TEAC ME-120/Sony ECM-999PR/Sony ECM-MS5
TASCAM DR-70D/Tricorder

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (26)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2160
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #44 on: September 11, 2016, 10:17:27 PM »
Wait a sec.... excuse my ignorance, but it says "Two 5 volt preamps". To me that means the preamps themselves run off 5 volts. Why are we sure that means they pass 5 volts through the XLR connectors to whatever is attached? Doesn't the H6 (for which these modules were designed, right?) itself run off 5 volts?

Regards, Christine

That makes a lot more sense

Maybe I'm missing something here, but that doesn't make sense to me at all.  Lots of other portable recorders run off 5V power, whether from 4 AA batteries (1.5V x 4) or from an external cell phone battery on a USB connector supplying 5V.  But the F4 and F8 (which the EXT-6 also connects with) will not run on 5V; they have a Hirose connector which requires 9-16V DC, or 8 AA batteries (1.5V x 8 = 12V).  The "two 5 volt preamps" statement is being made about the EXT-6 itself, and not conditional upon on which Zoom recorder it is attached to.  Lots of things happen between the power supplied to the overall recorder and the powering voltage to the mics, and I don't think you can draw a conclusion between those two things.

Also, look at the entire statement in their sales language (emphasis mine):
Quote
Two 5 volt preamps for to minimize distortion even at high volumes

That last part makes it very clear that they are talking about the voltage supplied to the microphones.  The funny thing about this is that 5V may be a bit on the low side for using PIP mics to record a loud source.  That's one of the reasons many members here use 9V battery supplies for PIP mics, rather than running from a recorder's built-in PIP supply which is typically no more than 3-5V.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 10:19:24 PM by voltronic »
DPA 4061 | Line Audio CM3 | Naiant X-Q
Naiant PFAs | Shure FP24
Tascam DR-70D JWMod | Sony PCM-M10

Tascam DR-70D FAQ
Team Line Audio
Quote
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.    ///    If a composer could say what he had to say in words he would not bother trying to say it in music.
- Gustav Mahler

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #45 on: September 14, 2016, 07:03:25 PM »
IPS IBC 2016 Episode 20 Zoom:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fv4r4MMF0EE

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (117)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40406
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2016, 06:07:58 PM »
I agree with Volt! Sounds like there's just 1x 5v preamp per channel on the EXH-6, thus, the "2x 5v preamps" quote by Zoom!

Sounds like its just a PIP source that still might not be enough voltage to avoid distortion on tiny PIP mics!
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline robin746

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
    • theatre of noise
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #47 on: September 20, 2016, 03:15:43 PM »
A bit late to the party since I haven't been on Tapersection for a couple months. I don't have an F4 but do own the F8. From that experience I posted this feature comparison, which I hope will be useful for some:

http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2016/09/zoom-f4f8-feature-comparison.html
Theatre of Noise contains info on recorders and mics. Plus rants about film, observations on politics, and other stuff.

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #48 on: September 20, 2016, 08:32:47 PM »
A bit late to the party since I haven't been on Tapersection for a couple months. I don't have an F4 but do own the F8. From that experience I posted this feature comparison, which I hope will be useful for some:

http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2016/09/zoom-f4f8-feature-comparison.html

If only it had bluetooth (and I don't even own an iOS device yet! But would've happily got an old iPad Mini or even an iPod Touch, to enter in metadata quickly on the fly) then I think it would be a no brainer choice for me to get the F4 (if reviews are good and doesn't turn up any surprises).

But as it is now... rather tougher to decided between which is superior of an F4 or F8. :-/

Wonder if they left out bluetooth just to be cruel and force these tough decisions on us! :-P

Offline robin746

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
    • theatre of noise
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #49 on: September 21, 2016, 10:22:23 AM »
Well, something had to be left out to bring the price down, especially as they actually added features to the F4. The larger trim knobs and two extra front-panel buttons make the decision even more cruel. Oh, and the stereo return and full-sized XLR outputs are handy too! So that's five improvements that I would actually notice and use.

Just in case it is not obvious, you can assign the trim knobs to be mix level instead, and mix on the front panel. That might be good enough for many applications.
Theatre of Noise contains info on recorders and mics. Plus rants about film, observations on politics, and other stuff.

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (57)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11995
  • Gender: Male
  • fahgeddaboudit
    • My Archived shows
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #50 on: September 21, 2016, 10:39:56 AM »
A bit late to the party since I haven't been on Tapersection for a couple months. I don't have an F4 but do own the F8. From that experience I posted this feature comparison, which I hope will be useful for some:

http://www.theatreofnoise.com/2016/09/zoom-f4f8-feature-comparison.html

Read your comparison.  Nice job.  One Question:  How do you know that the F8 and F4 have the same preamps?

Offline robin746

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
    • theatre of noise
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #51 on: September 21, 2016, 01:34:38 PM »
Zoom themselves report the preamps are the same. Besides, I don't think it would make much financial sense to retool production for different circuits. Companies like Zoom make their profit off large volumes and must standardise production.
Theatre of Noise contains info on recorders and mics. Plus rants about film, observations on politics, and other stuff.

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (57)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11995
  • Gender: Male
  • fahgeddaboudit
    • My Archived shows
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #52 on: September 21, 2016, 04:54:03 PM »
Zoom themselves report the preamps are the same. Besides, I don't think it would make much financial sense to retool production for different circuits. Companies like Zoom make their profit off large volumes and must standardise production.

Link?   Thanks.

Offline acidjack

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (33)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 5705
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #53 on: September 21, 2016, 05:20:05 PM »
This also doesn't have the bluetooth/app control, does it? Sorry if I missed that scrolling through..
Mics: Schoeps MK4V, MK41V, MK5, MK22> CMC6, KCY 250/5, KC5, NBob; MBHO MBP603/KA200N, AT 3031, DPA 4061, Naiant X-X, AT 853c, shotgun
Installed: AT 4051
Pres/Power: Aeta PSP3, tinybox v2  [KCY], CA-UBB
Decks: Zoom F8, R-26, M10, D50

My recordings on nyctaper.com: http://www.nyctaper.com/?tag=acidjack | LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/acidjack | twitter: http://www.twitter.com/acidjacknyc | Soundcloud: https://soundcloud.com/acidjacknyc

Offline robin746

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 31
  • Gender: Male
    • theatre of noise
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #54 on: September 21, 2016, 07:32:26 PM »
Zoom themselves report the preamps are the same. Besides, I don't think it would make much financial sense to retool production for different circuits. Companies like Zoom make their profit off large volumes and must standardise production.

Link?   Thanks.

Normally I don't reply to something that can be easily Googled. Just go to the F4 product description page. It says this:

"The F4 is equipped with our highest-quality mic preamps. Like the F8, the F4’s mic preamps enable pristine recording and playback at resolutions up to 24-bit/192 kHz. Its impressive audio specs include an extremely low noise floor (-127 dBu EIN) and high gain (up to 75 dB), with +4 dB line-level inputs."

Then if you check out the specs, you will see that all eight items pertaining to the mic pres are identical between the recorders.
Theatre of Noise contains info on recorders and mics. Plus rants about film, observations on politics, and other stuff.

Offline spyder9

  • Trade Count: (57)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 11995
  • Gender: Male
  • fahgeddaboudit
    • My Archived shows
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #55 on: September 21, 2016, 08:41:27 PM »
Thank you for your time, Robin.  You've convinced me to buy one.  Cheers!   :cheers: 

Some Youtube videos I found.  First video from IBC 2016, the Zoom Rep does claim the F4 has the same preamps as the F8 (go to 1:45 mark).

IBC 2016 - Zoom Rep interview w/ F4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVoKa6oPTO8

Gotham Sound overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMFJCt3sfYg

B & H Photo overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g-7wTzEQzM

Zoom F4 Promo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaLSlvMu2v0

Preamp sound comparison: Zoom F8 vs Sound Devices 688
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM6VOEYpm4g#t=342.264926
 
« Last Edit: September 21, 2016, 09:35:46 PM by spyder9 »

Offline LIVEMUSIC752

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 15
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #56 on: October 02, 2016, 07:31:31 PM »
To me that suggests the pre-amps are H6 quality. Agreed?

Regards, Christine

The EXT-6 first came out as an accessory when the H6 was released, and it also connects to the H5 and Q8 (and now the F8 and F4 as well).  Given that it does not pass P48, who knows what other differences there are compared to the built-in H6 preamps? 

Since the EXT-6 has been out for a quite a while as an accessory for those other units, we can safely assume that it doesn't have the new higher-quality preamps of the F4 / F8.  Zoom does not publish block diagrams for these accessories, so unless someone opens one up it's unclear exactly what's going on in there.  So that means its preamps are certainly not going to be higher quality than those in the H6, and they might actually be lower. 

This attachment is only going to be useful for mics that don't need phantom, unless you're using an external preamp or power supply in which case the its effects on the sound are going to be minimized.
not using phantom V48 so you could use dynamic microphones then with that option?

Offline refrain

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2016, 08:29:51 PM »
First unboxing video, nothing concrete yet, no tests, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p55ibOVdRok
Mics: AKG 300SE CK91+CK94, 2x Oktava MK-012 Card, Church Audio binaurals, Sony ECM 55B (Lav). 
Audio Recorders: Fostex FR2-LE, Tascam DR-70d.
Assorted audio acessories: Canford audio MS preamp, Presonus Firestudio mobile, Mackie 802 VLZ3 mixer, Behringer Q1002USB mixer, Rode Blimp II, sennheiser hd25 . Audio Monitors: Yamaha HS7, KRK Rockit (passive)

Offline Mike Stranks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2016, 12:53:31 PM »
First unboxing video, nothing concrete yet, no tests, but...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p55ibOVdRok

Good stuff!  None have landed in the UK yet... I have one on pre-order....
The older I get the better I used to be

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #59 on: November 02, 2016, 09:18:22 PM »
John Rowley soundequip.com.au just said that by tomorrow they'll have F4 kits available to rent from their Melbourne and Sydney locations.

Offline Mike Stranks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #60 on: November 04, 2016, 03:42:56 PM »
Mine was delivered today... (UK)

Can't find a list anywhere of recommended/compatible SD etc cards...

Anyone here found one yet?
The older I get the better I used to be

Offline graywolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #61 on: November 04, 2016, 07:17:54 PM »
Mine came today as well.

I recorded and played back a short bit of voice on one track just to see if it works okay. Going to take awhile to figure out all those menu items.

I have not seen a list of okay cards either, I just ordered the 64gb SanDisk card B&H had listed with it.

It does not look nor feel cheap. Knobs are big enough for me.

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #62 on: November 04, 2016, 08:59:15 PM »
Mine was delivered today... (UK)

Can't find a list anywhere of recommended/compatible SD etc cards...

Anyone here found one yet?

https://www.zoom-na.com/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/ZOOM_F8_compatibleCards.pdf

Ive had no trouble with sandisk 128gb in the F8
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 09:00:54 PM by rippleish20 »
MK41v's / MK4's / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s / Superlux S502
Schoeps KCY 250-5 IG + naiant PFA + naiant IPA + Nbox KCY version / Schoeps Active cable + integrated Naiant PFA / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Zoom F4 / Sony M-10 /  SD 702

Offline Mike Stranks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #63 on: November 05, 2016, 04:16:01 PM »
Thanks guys

Yup! in the end I figured that if they work in the F6 they'll work in the F4... so I've ordered one that's listed as compatible.

Not had a chance to test recorded audio yet, but in terms of facilities available this is a massive step-up from any of the other recorders I've owned.
The older I get the better I used to be

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3665
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2016, 12:04:22 PM »
Nice to see tapers are liking the zoom products! I've only glanced at the F8 and F4 but they look appealing. For awhile I've had the zoom r16, which I don't use enough, so I know they've worked on on these recorders.
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline Mike Stranks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2016, 01:05:28 PM »
Nice to see tapers are liking the zoom products! I've only glanced at the F8 and F4 but they look appealing. For awhile I've had the zoom r16, which I don't use enough, so I know they've worked on on these recorders.
R16 was the first multitrack I owned... loved it.... and got some surprisingly good recordings when using external preamps.

Still 'absorbing' the F4... I don't find the manual very user-friendly... seems to discuss part of what I consider a topic then go off somewhere else and then resume... Maybe I'm just getting old...  :)
The older I get the better I used to be

Offline rastasean

  • in paradise
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 3665
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2016, 05:43:56 PM »
Still 'absorbing' the F4... I don't find the manual very user-friendly... seems to discuss part of what I consider a topic then go off somewhere else and then resume... Maybe I'm just getting old...  :)

written by millennials for  millennials.  ;D
Advice is a form of nostalgia, dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it’s worth.

Offline refrain

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 77
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2016, 07:37:22 PM »
Another small review on the F4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr7pSufelOY
Mics: AKG 300SE CK91+CK94, 2x Oktava MK-012 Card, Church Audio binaurals, Sony ECM 55B (Lav). 
Audio Recorders: Fostex FR2-LE, Tascam DR-70d.
Assorted audio acessories: Canford audio MS preamp, Presonus Firestudio mobile, Mackie 802 VLZ3 mixer, Behringer Q1002USB mixer, Rode Blimp II, sennheiser hd25 . Audio Monitors: Yamaha HS7, KRK Rockit (passive)

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2016, 04:52:36 AM »
Curtis Judd has another one up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6R5h8F4tU


Offline Mike Stranks

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2016, 05:47:22 AM »
Curtis Judd has another one up:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gp6R5h8F4tU

I do like Curtis Judd's style and commonsense approach. I agree absolutely with everything he's said about the F4 limiters. I've also found that unless the digital clipping is HUGE then it can usually be rescued to usability by using a quality plug-in. I use izotope De-clip.
The older I get the better I used to be

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2016, 11:44:56 AM »
I bought a F4 even though I already have a F8. I like the F8 very much for the most part but  I never do more than four tracks, the little gain knobs are annoying to me and keeping track of the mini to regular size XLR cables for the main out is just yet another thing I have to keep track of (I end up doing a fair number of SBD recordings for a couple of bands and having to carry around cables to accommodate boards with 1/4 outs, boards with XLR outs in combination with the F* wanting 1/4 for line in, stuff for streaming,  etc adds up to much crap I have to keep track of already). At any rate, I like the F4 but the mono screen is *really* a downgrade from the F8. I can understand going to a monochrome screen but why does it have to be such a low resolution one?
MK41v's / MK4's / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s / Superlux S502
Schoeps KCY 250-5 IG + naiant PFA + naiant IPA + Nbox KCY version / Schoeps Active cable + integrated Naiant PFA / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Zoom F4 / Sony M-10 /  SD 702

Offline RMayberry

  • Trade Count: (7)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 153
  • Gender: Male
  • "Just Keep On Breathing"
    • Patchy's House
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #71 on: December 08, 2016, 03:39:29 PM »
Hello tapers and tapets.
I just got my Zoom F4 and I am having some trouble figuring something out:

The manual and even the side of the deck show "TRS" for line level input. BUT, i am using a "TRS to XLR" and the levels are super low. I then changed the cable to "TS" ends and its at a normal level.

Does anyone know need to if I have to use a "TRS to XLR cable" or a "TS to XLR cable"?
Don't Kill Live Music, Occupy A Venue

Offline graywolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #72 on: December 08, 2016, 05:38:17 PM »
I have used a XLR to TRS cable and it worked fine. The wiring diagram in the manual shows TRS. However, I can see no reason you couldn't use a TS.

Offline pohaku

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 723
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #73 on: December 08, 2016, 10:44:59 PM »
Hello tapers and tapets.
I just got my Zoom F4 and I am having some trouble figuring something out:

The manual and even the side of the deck show "TRS" for line level input. BUT, i am using a "TRS to XLR" and the levels are super low. I then changed the cable to "TS" ends and its at a normal level.

Does anyone know need to if I have to use a "TRS to XLR cable" or a "TS to XLR cable"?


What are you trying to run (xlr) into the line level input (trs)?
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline tim in jersey

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (6)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 3217
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #74 on: December 09, 2016, 12:27:52 AM »
Does the F4 have a HOLD button/function? This is a real deal-breaker for me. I'm often in situations where I have to "set it and forget it" and have to abandon the bag afterwards and guard the stand while the w00ks kick the gear tucked under the SBD...



Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm

Offline graywolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #76 on: December 16, 2016, 11:08:50 AM »
Does the F4 have a HOLD button/function?

If you mean a LOCK function, no, not as far as I have been able to determine.

Offline F.O.Bean

  • Is a 4 channel slut and
  • Trade Count: (117)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 40406
  • Gender: Male
  • Taperus Maximus
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #77 on: December 27, 2016, 05:34:07 AM »
Does the F4 have a HOLD button/function? This is a real deal-breaker for me. I'm often in situations where I have to "set it and forget it" and have to abandon the bag afterwards and guard the stand while the w00ks kick the gear tucked under the SBD...




You just need a cheap ole Tascam 70D if you need to "set it and forget it" ;) The HOLD function locks EVERYTHING on the deck, including the gain knobs! I LOVE that about it actually! I get my levels set and put HOLD ON, and don't touch a thing until the set is over and I hit STOP 8) Well worth the $200/new with an "approved" sd card. I buy SanDisk Extreme Pro 128 & 64gb SD Cards from Amazon straight from SanDisk FWIW!

That said, I do like the F4/F8. And those extra 2 channels on 5/6 with the 1/8" Stereo input is badass IMO! It's also MORE THAN double the price of a 70D, same price as the 701D! So there are LOTS of options out there for UNDER $1k that are HQ and sound great! I also just bought a 128gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Card for only $64 on Amazon :) Can't beat the price and quality on those either IMO!
Schoeps MK4's & MK41's ->
Schoeps | NBob 250/05 KCY's ->
Schoeps VMS02IB | Naiant +60v PFA's ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's ->
Tascam DR-70D's ->
128gb & 64gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Cards

FiiO E10K DAC/HP Amp & E11K HP Amp ->
Sony MDR-7506 Cans & SA-VA15 Speakers | Monster iSport Victory Earbuds

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean | http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420 | http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #78 on: December 27, 2016, 09:01:22 AM »
I also just bought a 128gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SD Card for only $64 on Amazon :) Can't beat the price and quality on those either IMO!

Is crazy that back when I was buying stacks of SanDisk Extreme Pro cards for my Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera that I paid over 50% more for cards of only *half* the capacity!!

Offline caymanreview

  • Trade Count: (18)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 9699
  • Gender: Male
    • shows ive taped  that are in circulation

Online noahbickart

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (23)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • *
  • Posts: 1344
  • Gender: Male
  • Nobody's finished, we ain't even begun
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2017, 08:16:50 AM »
The mixing control surface is now announced for $350:

http://www.locationsound.com/zoom-f-control-mixing-control-surface-for-zoom-f-series-3840

did anyone buy one of these?

It looks great, for the price, but I'm not sure I'd want to run that under a seat at MSG...
Recording:
Capsules: Schoeps mk41v, mk4v, mk22, mk3 & mk8
Cables: 2x nbob KCY, Darktrain 2 and 4 channel KCY extensions:
Preamps:    Naiant Littlebox, Naiant IPA, Naiant PFA
Recorders: Tascam Dr-70d, Sony PCM m10
Home Playback: Mytek Stereo96> Adcom SLC 505> Marantz Ma500 (x2)> Eminent Tech LFT-16; Musical Fidelity xCan v2> Hifiman HE-400
Office Playback: Grace m903> AKG k701

Offline IronFilm

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 20
    • IronFilm
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #81 on: January 04, 2017, 10:02:58 AM »

It looks great, for the price, but I'm not sure I'd want to run that under a seat at MSG...

MSG?

Offline graywolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2017, 10:22:54 AM »

Offline kingdong

  • Trade Count: (17)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 62
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2017, 11:07:14 AM »

It looks great, for the price, but I'm not sure I'd want to run that under a seat at MSG...

MSG?
Madison Square Garden

Offline frank10

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #84 on: January 18, 2017, 03:23:47 PM »
Hi all,
in the 1/8 input, is it possible to directly connect a 3.5mm lav mic?
1) those battery powered, should work I think. But I don't know if they are mono with a stereo connector, I think a special adapter cable is needed or even those with a mono connector. With proper cable should it get 2 of them.
2) those not battery powered like for example those smartphone lavs that get "power line" (I think between 1V-9V) (I know they are TRRS, but with an adapter cable...)?
There isn't phantom power, but how many volts go out from  F4's 1/8 input? 5V?
3) input levels are like XLR inputs? Are correct for these mics or are like line levels?

Practical example mics:
1) Aputure a.lav or ATR 3350
2) Rode smartlav+

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #85 on: January 18, 2017, 05:05:04 PM »
The 1/8" jack is an output not an input
MK41v's / MK4's / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s / Superlux S502
Schoeps KCY 250-5 IG + naiant PFA + naiant IPA + Nbox KCY version / Schoeps Active cable + integrated Naiant PFA / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Zoom F4 / Sony M-10 /  SD 702

Offline frank10

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #86 on: January 19, 2017, 02:53:44 AM »
I saw in a 3.5mm connector there is: RTN (INPUT 5/6).
I'm not referring to the SUB OUT 3.5mm.

But anyway, I suppose I assumed it wrong: it should be a line signal, so it's not possible...

Ok, let's say:
mics like 1) can be solved with an XLR adapter in the normal mic inputs without Phantom? They are battery powered, so they should work.

mics like 2) could be connected to the Zoom capsule with an XLR adapter?
EDIT:
I read that it hasn't phantom power (24-48V), so how much Volts output that capsule, is it with "plug-in power" (3-9V) to power electret mics without battery?

Otherwise, is there some way to connect these lavs not powered, not phantom?
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 06:32:41 AM by frank10 »

Offline graywolf

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #87 on: January 23, 2017, 02:17:57 PM »
5/6 is a line-in jack. That means you, usually, need a pre-amp to use it with a mic. Its intended use is to take a line level signal from a camcorder or a front of house mixer and send it to the headphone amp for monitoring. HOWEVER, it can be sent to the recorder 5/6 tracks instead. The 5/6 tracks can also record from the Zoom Plug-in Mic's.
 

I saw in a 3.5mm connector there is: RTN (INPUT 5/6).
I'm not referring to the SUB OUT 3.5mm.

But anyway, I suppose I assumed it wrong: it should be a line signal, so it's not possible...

Ok, let's say:
mics like 1) can be solved with an XLR adapter in the normal mic inputs without Phantom? They are battery powered, so they should work.

mics like 2) could be connected to the Zoom capsule with an XLR adapter?
EDIT:
I read that it hasn't phantom power (24-48V), so how much Volts output that capsule, is it with "plug-in power" (3-9V) to power electret mics without battery?

Otherwise, is there some way to connect these lavs not powered, not phantom?

Offline frank10

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2017, 02:52:14 PM »
Thank you. At pag.83 of the manual it says: "changing the plugin power setting (Plugin Power)" to use when there is a mic connected to the mic capsule (MIC/LINE) input jack.
What does it mean capsule input jack?
Capsule, does it mean the external 5/6 channels connected in the rear MIC IN connector EXH-6? But they have a XLR connector besides the jack. Anyway if it refers to them, with that accessory it should be possible to connect some plug-in power mics.

I hope it can manage both phantom power and plug-in power.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2017, 02:58:39 PM by frank10 »

Offline kubacheck

  • Trade Count: (3)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2203
    • My Flickr site
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #89 on: February 04, 2017, 10:50:17 AM »
I don't know for how long, but the F4 is on sale for $599 at Musicians Friend right now.... plus free ground shipping....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder

Offline pohaku

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (28)
  • Taperssection Member
  • *
  • Posts: 723
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #90 on: February 04, 2017, 12:57:15 PM »
I don't know for how long, but the F4 is on sale for $599 at Musicians Friend right now.... plus free ground shipping....

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/zoom-f4-multitrack-field-recorder

Last I saw, it was until February 6, like the sale on the F8.
Mics: akg c460 (ck61, ck63), c414buls, c568eb; at4049a, 4051a, 4053a, at853; josephson c42; neumann U87, km84i; beyer m130, m160, m500; aea r84; gefell m71, mt711s, m200, m201; sony c38; schoeps cmc6, CMBI (mk4, mk21, mk41, mk4v); sennheiser mkh40, md421, md431, md541
Pres: API, a-designs, pendulum, purple, millennia, gt, littlebox, tinybox, usbpre2, CA 9200, pipsqueak, pueblo pending
Cables: KCY, CMR, Naiant AKG actives, PFAs, asst.  GAKables and Darktrain
Recorders/converters: dr680, m10, dr-2d, d50, dr70d, zoom f8, lynx aurora 8


Yeah, I'm an attorney, but everyone needs a day job!

Offline frank10

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #91 on: February 06, 2017, 08:26:46 AM »
In my F4, if I slide horizontally the finger on the top rear metal battery slot when F4 is powered from mains, without any cable connected apart mic, I get a little "current" feeling on the finger... it's a "feeling" of some current...
If i power from battery OR if I connect to USB it disappears!
Does it seem sort like not well shielded to GND?

Is it normal? Do you have this, too?

Offline frank10

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #92 on: February 08, 2017, 03:37:24 PM »
I have a serious problem with my unit, I will tell you after this test: I would like to know if it's only my unit or if it's a design flaw, so it could be an interesting test.

This is an empirically method to check the problem of my previous post:
Could you test this:

EDIT: test to be made with the unit powered by the transformer, without other cables connected.

get a multimeter, put at 20V AC, put black probe to connect the external metal hirose connector, and the red probe to the rear metal battery slot.
(Probably it's sufficient touching only with the black probe...)
What does it show the multimeter?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2017, 08:31:52 PM by frank10 »

Offline Kohakoo

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #93 on: February 10, 2017, 09:41:53 AM »
Hi, I have posted this in the Zoom F8 forum as well but the units are similar in operation I think. Can anyone tell me how to set up a Cardioid Mic and a Bidirectional Mic to do Mid-Side recording  with the F8.
I have tried different ways and have to end up editing in post to achieve this.
According to the manual, it appears as though you need a dedicated MS Mic to do this. I bought the F8 after reading it can decode Mid-Side.

Thank you Brian

Offline kleiner Rainer

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 120
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #94 on: February 10, 2017, 02:25:06 PM »
I have a serious problem with my unit, I will tell you after this test: I would like to know if it's only my unit or if it's a design flaw, so it could be an interesting test.

This is an empirically method to check the problem of my previous post:
Could you test this:

EDIT: test to be made with the unit powered by the transformer, without other cables connected.

get a multimeter, put at 20V AC, put black probe to connect the external metal hirose connector, and the red probe to the rear metal battery slot.
(Probably it's sufficient touching only with the black probe...)
What does it show the multimeter?

Simple answer: you are measuring the leakage current between protective earth and the output of the switchmode power supply (aka wall wart or transformer). Primary and secondary side of the Switchmode power supply are connected by a small safety capacitor for two reasons:

1) to pass the EMC test
2) to survive the required high voltage burst/surge test

The AC current you can feel is very low. IIRC the limit is 300microamps or so (depends on the local safety regulations and product class).

BTW digital multimeters with input resistances in the Megohm range will show nonsense in this case - I measured 100V AC on a wire that ran parallel to a mains wire. The voltage disappeared when I pulled out my old analog meter - its called capacitive coupling.

So - no worries. If you still worry, simply run the F4 on battery power, problem solved.

Greetings,

Rainer

doing electronic design and EMC stuff for a living for the last 30 years
recording steam trains since 1985

Offline frank10

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #95 on: February 10, 2017, 02:49:55 PM »
Thank you Kleiner Rainer, good explanation, anyway I knew that (I just learnt it a week ago). And if there is USB cable connected or i.e. other XLR main Out cable, those connections put it to GND and the measured Voltage disappears, so the test must be done without any cable connected.

Mine it's not a safety concern, after all the power switching is only 12V.
It's another *real* problem related to quality recording with mics. I really suspect this is correlated with problems I have -I will tell after someone test :) -  : in fact going to battery solves the problem!

So I would only to know if other owners of F4/F8 measure it (I know it's not a "real/correct" measure, but anyway it confirms there is/there isn't this leakage, as it's instead possible not to have it if the unit has some different design: after all, the most metal case of different units I touch don't have this, it means it's possible to avoid it; so it could be only my unit...).

« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 03:44:10 PM by frank10 »

Offline Colin Liston

  • Trade Count: (8)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 2146
  • Gender: Male
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #96 on: March 23, 2017, 09:36:47 AM »
I've read through this thread but I must have missed it, but can someone tell me if the F4 is the same as the F8 with the line level input can being achieved by using 1/4" vs xlr.

So xlr will be mic level and the 1/4" would be line level?   
Microtech Gefell SMS2000 m20/m21 / DPA (B&K) 4023
V3 > R44  /  TInybox V2.2 output transformers / Beyer MV100 > R09hr

Offline rippleish20

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 130
Re: Zoom F4 with six inputs and eight tracks (is like a new low priced F8!)
« Reply #97 on: March 23, 2017, 11:45:30 AM »
I've read through this thread but I must have missed it, but can someone tell me if the F4 is the same as the F8 with the line level input can being achieved by using 1/4" vs xlr.

So xlr will be mic level and the 1/4" would be line level?

yes
MK41v's / MK4's / Telefunken FET M60 Cards and Hypers / AT853s / Superlux S502
Schoeps KCY 250-5 IG + naiant PFA + naiant IPA + Nbox KCY version / Schoeps Active cable + integrated Naiant PFA / SP-SPSB-11 Battery Box
Zoom F8 / Zoom F4 / Sony M-10 /  SD 702

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 1.239 seconds with 124 queries.
© 2002-2017 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF
Website Design by Foxtrot Media, Inc., a Baltimore Website Company