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Offline rigpimp

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Breaking into video?
« on: September 07, 2016, 11:24:59 PM »
First let me preface this with the caveat that I really dont know squat about video.

I have had two video cameras that I think are reasonably decent (comments welcome) cameras, Canon XA10's for a few months and have never used them.  (They were free)  Does anyone use this model?  Are they dated?

I am considering breaking into video and am looking for some pointers on how to set up, what stands to use, etc.  I am guessing one fixed, forward view and another side stage or hand held.   ???

Any pointers on how to get over the hump and take these things out would be great.

Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
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Recorders: Edirol R-44 (for sale), Sony PCM-M10, Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Offline xjsb125

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2016, 08:29:36 AM »
Can you be a little more specific on what you are wanting to record? That makes a big difference in equipment, angles, techniques,  etc. If you are serious about quality, video is an expensive hobby to get into. Are you interested in recording concerts? If so, what types of shows and venues? Weddings, parties, sports? All of those matter because their are cameras out there that may be better suited for one or the other.
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2016, 08:45:12 AM »
My gig for nearly 30 years is as an obsessed concert taper.  I mostly do bluegrass shows and festivals, americana, acoustic stuff in small venues, etc.  Nothing else.  Just music but probably a lot of low light indoor stuff.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Edirol R-44 (for sale), Sony PCM-M10, Sound Devices Mixpre-6

http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline xjsb125

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2016, 10:11:51 PM »
It really involves a lot of research. I am a Canon fanboy, and thus I love their products. I won't deny Panasonic's contributions though, as they have some excellent products. I would suggest maybe browsing the cameras within your budget, and reading user reviews from B&H, or another reputable site so you can see what experiences people had in a variety of settings. The XA10's are a good in-between from Canon's professional models, and the Vixia series of camcorders. They are compact, have a lot of manual control, and they have XLR audio inputs (with phantom power) if you wanted to run audio directly to the camera, rather than syncing external audio in post. If you are recording video solo and want to do video with more than one angle, you are going to need a camcorder for a static shot. DSLR cameras will give you a limited amount of run time, and that can be very dependent upon what it is recording. They can be excellent tools because of the variety of lenses you can use, and work great for handheld shots. The image sensor on a camcorder can make a huge difference in video quality as well. Smaller sensors accept less light, degrading your image. The XA10's have Canon's CMOS sensors in them, fair ok in low light situations. If you have two of them, you should have the ability to make some really good videos. I would recommend getting comfortable and familiar with the manual controls of them, and perhaps look at some tutorials about them online. Those manual controls can really make a great deal of difference in your video. The cameras retail for about $1200 new. If you got them for free, I'm jealous!

As for stands, I like Manfrotto. They are sturdy and durable, and you can swap out the heads on them for ones that are better suited for pan/zoom, or just a straight on static shot. I'd avoid the cheap ones you can get at Walmart, Target, or Best Buy. I think one camera shooting a straight ahead shot, and another that is handheld will work just fine.

I hope some of that helps. I'm by no means a professional, but maybe some of that will get you going.
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Offline rigpimp

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #4 on: September 09, 2016, 11:58:44 PM »
It really involves a lot of research. I am a Canon fanboy, and thus I love their products. I won't deny Panasonic's contributions though, as they have some excellent products. I would suggest maybe browsing the cameras within your budget, and reading user reviews from B&H, or another reputable site so you can see what experiences people had in a variety of settings. The XA10's are a good in-between from Canon's professional models, and the Vixia series of camcorders. They are compact, have a lot of manual control, and they have XLR audio inputs (with phantom power) if you wanted to run audio directly to the camera, rather than syncing external audio in post. If you are recording video solo and want to do video with more than one angle, you are going to need a camcorder for a static shot. DSLR cameras will give you a limited amount of run time, and that can be very dependent upon what it is recording. They can be excellent tools because of the variety of lenses you can use, and work great for handheld shots. The image sensor on a camcorder can make a huge difference in video quality as well. Smaller sensors accept less light, degrading your image. The XA10's have Canon's CMOS sensors in them, fair ok in low light situations. If you have two of them, you should have the ability to make some really good videos. I would recommend getting comfortable and familiar with the manual controls of them, and perhaps look at some tutorials about them online. Those manual controls can really make a great deal of difference in your video. The cameras retail for about $1200 new. If you got them for free, I'm jealous!

As for stands, I like Manfrotto. They are sturdy and durable, and you can swap out the heads on them for ones that are better suited for pan/zoom, or just a straight on static shot. I'd avoid the cheap ones you can get at Walmart, Target, or Best Buy. I think one camera shooting a straight ahead shot, and another that is handheld will work just fine.

I hope some of that helps. I'm by no means a professional, but maybe some of that will get you going.

This is all great info, thank you!  So to break in I want to just use the XA10's that I have.  These are used and I think that I may need to source a couple of parts.  I think that I need a wall wart for one and I only have one of the XLR modules.  I will also need a tripod for my static shot.  Do people also clamp a god's eye for a static shot?  That might be easier without having to go source a tripod...

I found the tutorial below on these models and will watch it to see if it walks me through setting up the manual features. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTKHUMJCvac

I'll try to report progress as I move through my curiosity.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Edirol R-44 (for sale), Sony PCM-M10, Sound Devices Mixpre-6

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Offline if_then_else

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2016, 02:37:05 AM »
I mostly do bluegrass shows and festivals, americana, acoustic stuff in small venues, etc. 

I will also need a tripod for my static shot.  Do people also clamp a god's eye for a static shot?  That might be easier without having to go source a tripod...

If you're mainly going to record in small venues, bars etc I'd rather go for a Cardellini or Superclamp and a Manfrotto Magic Arm. Some venue's won't allow tripods but are cool with clamping to features like trusses, lighting rails, catwalks etc.


Offline rigpimp

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2016, 11:21:58 AM »
I mostly do bluegrass shows and festivals, americana, acoustic stuff in small venues, etc. 

I will also need a tripod for my static shot.  Do people also clamp a god's eye for a static shot?  That might be easier without having to go source a tripod...

If you're mainly going to record in small venues, bars etc I'd rather go for a Cardellini or Superclamp and a Manfrotto Magic Arm. Some venue's won't allow tripods but are cool with clamping to features like trusses, lighting rails, catwalks etc.

Yep, mostly smaller indoor venues and clamping to rails, etc it was I was thinking for the static shot.  I have never heard of the magic arm but will look at them, thank yo!.  I have a superclamp but never used it because it was so bulky.  Maybe it will see the light of day now?

I watched that whole video above last night and it runs through most of the basic set up for manual shooting for the XA10.  Then I watched a could of others and learned about the Ninja 2.  Holy crap, does anyone use a Ninja 2 to record uncompressed HDMI?

Also, what do folks use for remote powering in case I do not have access to AC power?
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Edirol R-44 (for sale), Sony PCM-M10, Sound Devices Mixpre-6

http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline bombdiggity

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2016, 12:15:13 PM »
The biggest keys for video are: 1) make sure you have manual exposure control and use it, 2) make sure you can plug in a mic/s (unless you think you'll have time and skill to try to sync audio later). 

Both really important.  Without 1) you will just be filming glowing blobs at really any venue except daylight outdoors (and even then if they use bright enough spots). 
Gear:
Audio:
Schoeps MK4V
Nak CM-100/CM-300 w/ CP-1's or CP-4's
SP-CMC-25
>
Oade C mod R-44  OR
Tinybox > Sony PCM-M10 (formerly Roland R-05) 
Video: Varied, with various outboard mics depending on the situation

Offline rigpimp

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2016, 12:39:07 PM »
The biggest keys for video are: 1) make sure you have manual exposure control and use it, 2) make sure you can plug in a mic/s (unless you think you'll have time and skill to try to sync audio later). 

Both really important.  Without 1) you will just be filming glowing blobs at really any venue except daylight outdoors (and even then if they use bright enough spots).

Great tips, thank you!  The XA10 has both XLR in as well as reasonably robust manual controls.
Mics: Schoeps MK5 G MP, Schoeps CCM 4 Lg MP, Schoeps MK8 MP, nBob cables > PFA, KCY 250/5 > PFA
Pre/A>D/P48: Sonosax SX/M2, Sonosax SX/M2-LS, E.A.A. PSP-2, Naiant Tinybox, Neumann BS48i-2 (for sale)
Recorders: Edirol R-44 (for sale), Sony PCM-M10, Sound Devices Mixpre-6

http://archive.org/bookmarks/kskreider

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2016, 04:46:55 AM »
Also, what do folks use for remote powering in case I do not have access to AC power?

I'm no Canon user but, apparently, the Canon BP-827 rechargeable (or some compatible product).
At least it appears to be compatible with your device and has higher capacity than the stock BP-808 batteries:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/835626-REG/watson_b_1510_bp_827_battery_pack_f_canon.html
https://www.amazon.com/Wasabi-Power-Battery-BP-827-3000mAh/dp/B004TBBSNY

Moreover, please make sure to buy some safety cables. I can recommend the "Saveking" cable by Major Lighting. They're available in different sizes and lengths and they're super sturdy. [You can use zip ties or Cobra ties to mount them to the Magic Arm (in order to avoid scuffs).]

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2016, 03:39:58 PM »
camcorder-magic_arm-mount.JPG

Ingenious use of a kitchen sponge as a clamping pad so as not to leave a mark.  Great idea!

Moreover, please make sure to buy some safety cables. I can recommend the "Saveking" cable by Major Lighting. They're available in different sizes and lengths and they're super sturdy. [You can use zip ties or Cobra ties to mount them to the Magic Arm (in order to avoid scuffs).]

Speaking as someone who does a lot of clamping, that's a necessity.  For avoiding scuffs, there are some safety cables that come with a vinyl/rubber coating; not as easy to find as the bare ones but they can be had.  Or, if you're feeling industrious, give the bare cables a coating of Plasti Dip.

Offline if_then_else

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2016, 03:34:29 AM »
Speaking as someone who does a lot of clamping, that's a necessity.  For avoiding scuffs, there are some safety cables that come with a vinyl/rubber coating; not as easy to find as the bare ones but they can be had.  Or, if you're feeling industrious, give the bare cables a coating of Plasti Dip.

I've repurposed some Flexroute cable guides (for bikes) for avoiding scuffs to the Manfrotto Magic Arm.
These cable guides have recessed channels for zip/Cobra ties. The included hard rubber grommet can hold
a split ring to which you can fix your safety cable.

http://www.cobraties.com/cobra-ties/flexroute/

Actually, this idea was inspired by the following photo blog:
http://www.danecreek.com/blog/2013/10/06/peter-read-miller-sports-workshop-gear-part-1.html

Offline Fried Chicken Boy

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2016, 10:51:28 AM »
Apologies to the OP as if_then_else and I are going off the original topic; we should probably take the clamping talk to the appropriate thread. > http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=151303.0

^  Just a thank you to i_t_e for the additional ideas, and a thought.  The Flexroute cable guides seem to be an option, but I would be concerned about how secure they are as the attaching band doesn't appear to be a single piece that wraps completely around the extension arms that we use.  In the event of a clamp failure, will the weight of the falling gear (which could be several pounds) cause the safety cable to just yank the Flexroute guide off the bar?  Perhaps I'm not entirely clear on your usage of them, and maybe you'd consider posting a photo of them in action in the "Clamp-aholics" thread?  :)

Offline Jerseyboy

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #13 on: March 04, 2017, 11:06:06 PM »
The biggest keys for video are: 1) make sure you have manual exposure control and use it, 2) make sure you can plug in a mic/s (unless you think you'll have time and skill to try to sync audio later). 

Both really important.  Without 1) you will just be filming glowing blobs at really any venue except daylight outdoors (and even then if they use bright enough spots).

About those glowing blobs....what exposure settings do you adjust to combat the over-exposed/white out of subjects under bright stage lighting? On a good digital camera I set the ISO high.  I lost one camera angle because the setting was incorrect filming from in front of or to the side of the stage.  I'm still trying to "fix" the problem.  Are there lens filters out there to help with this problem?

Offline xjsb125

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Re: Breaking into video?
« Reply #14 on: March 04, 2017, 11:31:29 PM »
You might use a neutral density filter as a quick fix. Depending upon what ISO you were filming at, you may need to lower it, change your aperture, or exposure, or all of the above. Any of those settings can impact the amount of light coming into your camera. What camera were you using, and what settings?
"I'm the one who's gonna have to die when it's time for me to die. So let me live my life, the way I want to."

 

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