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Author Topic: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3  (Read 36241 times)

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Offline Sebastian

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #150 on: November 13, 2018, 12:32:41 PM »
F8 firmware 5.10 is out. Changes are:

  • Metadata included in WAV files partially cannot be loaded by "Avid Media Composer" application.
  • Files may sometimes be overwritten in recording when “No” is selected on the “Reset Take Number”
    screen.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #151 on: December 21, 2018, 10:40:54 AM »
I'm picking up an F8 this weekend and looking forward to giving it a go.  I'm completely satisfied with the Tascam DR-680Mk2, yet want more than 6 preamp inputs with phantom.  Have recently been using a Roland R-88 on temporary loan, which will make for another point of comparison.  The R-88 is a very nice recorder, but large, heavy, and a generation or two older.

I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.
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Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #152 on: December 21, 2018, 10:46:40 AM »
I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.

I've got a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-14500mAh-26400mAh/dp/B016BJCRUO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502479575&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=talenccell&th=1

While I haven't been the festival type for the most part, I've recorded some long shows with a lot of phantom power running and have barely put a dent in this battery.  If anything it's probably overkill (for me, at least).

Also FWIW I'm still on firmware 4.10 and haven't had any issues.  (I haven't had any issues with any firmware version, though.)
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Offline voltronic

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #153 on: December 21, 2018, 10:52:20 AM »
I'm picking up an F8 this weekend and looking forward to giving it a go.  I'm completely satisfied with the Tascam DR-680Mk2, yet want more than 6 preamp inputs with phantom.  Have recently been using a Roland R-88 on temporary loan, which will make for another point of comparison.  The R-88 is a very nice recorder, but large, heavy, and a generation or two older.

I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts.  I am now leaning more towards the F8 vs. the MixPre-6 when it's time to upgrade my deck.  Although my modded DR-70D keeps on trucking for me.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #154 on: December 21, 2018, 11:34:29 AM »
I've got a couple of these: https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Rechargeable-11000mAh-14500mAh-26400mAh/dp/B016BJCRUO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1502479575&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=talenccell&th=1

While I haven't been the festival type for the most part, I've recorded some long shows with a lot of phantom power running and have barely put a dent in this battery.  If anything it's probably overkill (for me, at least).

I've two of those of these I bought for my DR-680's, and used one to power the R-88.  Good to see confirmation that they work for the F8 as well.  I'll check out the power connection this weekend.. is there a prefered power-cable or any specific power settings I should be aware of?

I'll be curious to hear your thoughts.  I am now leaning more towards the F8 vs. the MixPre-6 when it's time to upgrade my deck.  Although my modded DR-70D keeps on trucking for me.

Yes I've looked at the SD's as well, yet what I'm looking for is a straight 8 mic-channel input recorder and the only other option within budget is a second-hand R-88.  I actually would have bought the one I had on loan despite its size and heft if it was more like an 8-channel version of the R-44, but in targeting a more professional recording market with the R-88, Roland eliminated (or simply chose not to implement) some R-44 features which are important to my use, rather than extending and improving them as I had hoped to find.  Still holding onto my OCM R44 which I still use frequently for 4 channel output playback.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 11:38:07 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #155 on: December 21, 2018, 11:54:18 AM »
I've two of those of these I bought for my DR-680's, and used one to power the R-88.  Good to see confirmation that they work for the F8 as well.  I'll check out the power connection this weekend.. is there a prefered power-cable or any specific power settings I should be aware of?

I just use the power cable I got with the F8 (I bought mine used, so I'm not entirely sure if it actually came with the F8 originally or was thrown into the deal...it looks like it came with the F8 though).  If you'd like I could send you a picture of it so you can see what I'm talking about, since I'm doing such a bad job describing it.

I don't remember doing any specific power settings.  I think I just plugged it in and went to town.  It's possible I did and forgot since I haven't needed to mess with it since then, but I'm not sure.  I use the hirose connection on the F8, FWIW.

I might have a custom power cable Ted made for me kicking around.  Or I may have thrown that in when I sold my F4.  Regardless, I'm perfectly happy with the plain old Zoom cable, even if it does have a weird dongle thing in the middle of it.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #156 on: December 21, 2018, 12:08:16 PM »
Thanks. I'll figure it out once I take a look at everything this weekend.  Will return to this thread if I have questions.  Hoping to use it for a show Jan 3rd.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline rippleish20

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #157 on: December 21, 2018, 01:58:45 PM »
I've two of those of these I bought for my DR-680's, and used one to power the R-88.  Good to see confirmation that they work for the F8 as well.  I'll check out the power connection this weekend.. is there a prefered power-cable or any specific power settings I should be aware of?

I just use the power cable I got with the F8 (I bought mine used, so I'm not entirely sure if it actually came with the F8 originally or was thrown into the deal...it looks like it came with the F8 though).  If you'd like I could send you a picture of it so you can see what I'm talking about, since I'm doing such a bad job describing it.

I don't remember doing any specific power settings.  I think I just plugged it in and went to town.  It's possible I did and forgot since I haven't needed to mess with it since then, but I'm not sure.  I use the hirose connection on the F8, FWIW.

I might have a custom power cable Ted made for me kicking around.  Or I may have thrown that in when I sold my F4.  Regardless, I'm perfectly happy with the plain old Zoom cable, even if it does have a weird dongle thing in the middle of it.

You are probably referring to this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1353406-REG/zoom_dhc_1_dc_to_hirose_cable.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyZin8Myx3wIV20sNCh1C5w62EAQYASABEgJaIfD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y


It comes standard with the F4 but not the F8. I passed on the xtra one I had...
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Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #158 on: December 21, 2018, 03:18:24 PM »
You are probably referring to this:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1353406-REG/zoom_dhc_1_dc_to_hirose_cable.html/?ap=y&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIyZin8Myx3wIV20sNCh1C5w62EAQYASABEgJaIfD_BwE&lsft=BI%3A514&smp=Y


It comes standard with the F4 but not the F8. I passed on the xtra one I had...

Yep, that's the one.  I wasn't clear previously what it did or didn't come with.
Recordings on LMA: https://archive.org/search.php?query=taper%3A%22Lucas+Lorenz%22
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #159 on: January 08, 2019, 01:13:40 PM »
Ran F8 for the first time last Thursday with all 8 channels populated with phantom powered microphones.  Powered it with the Tallent Cell battery directly into the coaxial main input on the back using a power cable/connector for a DR680 MK1.  Everything went well other than struggling to getting a handle on input trims across all 8 channels during the first song, balancing channel pairs, getting all pairs peaking appropriately, then ganging them all for global trim control.. all without accidentally touching one of the other trims and needing to carefully readjust.  I find the input sensitivity trim adjustment quite "touchy".  Found myself wishing there was a mode where the input trim values (not the encoder trim knobs themselves) snapped to detent values rather than being smoothly linear, and/or a mode where one could switch between smaller trim sensitivity ranges.

I think what I'll need to do is determine the appropriate relative trims, then always leave all channels ganged to avoid that struggle, only tweaking one trim for all channels.  I can make that work as I will pretty much always use the same microphone arrangement and channel assignments with this recorder.

I find that having set the recorder to write four 2ch WAVs, upon playback from the machine those pairs are locked into being manageable only as stereo pairs in the monitor mixer and the channels they contain cannot be individually panned or otherwise adjusted individually.  Seems I'll need to either record mono WAVs or a polyphonic WAV to be able to do this.  This behaviour is different than the Roland R-44 and Tascam DR-680 in that those machines don't change their behavior based on WAV type other than affecting when an auto-split occurs.

I also am having a hard time figuring out exactly what is going on with M/S playback matrixing. But initial listening to a mix of the recording through the headphone out sounds very good.

The F8 is certainly more complicated to run than the DR-680 MK2 which I still really like otherwise, yet need the extra two input channels with built-in preamps.

Was running firmware version 3.something the unit came with (new old stock) and just updated to the most current 5.10 firmware last night.  I've yet to explore that further.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #160 on: January 08, 2019, 01:54:34 PM »
I have a default grouping of trims that I use, and that only gets changed when I switch to ambisonic mode.  I'm at the point where I don't really need to do much in the way of adjustment in the field.  I pretty much just turn on phantom for the appropriate channels, let it roll, and maybe adjust levels (though I can often guess ahead of time to get them either right on or very close).  I also don't use as many features as you're using...for example I think I've only used the F8 for playback once.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #161 on: January 08, 2019, 04:13:17 PM »
I see that's what I'll likely do as well.  Have yet to check out the ambisonic mode now that I've loaded firmware which includes it.


Somewhat OT-
I realize my use of recorders for the kind of playback I'm doing unusual, and is where I generally find all the multichannel recorders commonly used around here to be lacking in various ways in comparison to their recording modes.  The features I wish for are all well within the realm of possibility but just not commonly used and requested I suppose.  Each multichannel recorder provides a different limited set of output functionalities.   If only one manufacturer would combine them in one machine.  Shouldn't be difficult to implement, it's mostly just signal routing changes, but would need to be implemented in the design phase.

For instance, I'd prefer to have all the input options on the F8 such as delay, polarity, M/S decoding, (and EQ, sadly not available on the F8) as playback options where I'll actually make use of them. 

R-88 does provide per-channel parametric EQ (as well as level and pan) to the 2-channel mix output, but just like the F8 delay and polarity options are record only.  And although R-88 provides individual outputs for all channels (unlike the F8 and SD-mixpres) there is control over them whatsoever. 

DR-680 provides 6 discrete channel outs but like R-88 without any control over them, provides level and panning for 2-ch mix output but no delay, polarity or EQ.

R-44 lacks panning control (it's most egregious omission), but goes further than all the others in providing discrete channel outputs for all channels with level control, as well as choice between a couple different EQs, M/S decoding, compression/limiting, or a few other filters I never use for all output channels.  I was hoping that Roland carried this arrangement forward with R-88 and 8 channels with the inclusion of panning (and additional processing power and routing options), but they did not.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline heathen

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #162 on: January 08, 2019, 04:45:26 PM »
Staying off topic, I'm curious why you use the recorder so often for playback?  Can the multichannel playback not be accomplished with a PC?
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #163 on: January 08, 2019, 05:52:19 PM »
Because I'm an oddball, mostly.  Sure a PC is the typically prefered way to do it, certainly more powerful control of things that way, and necessary for editing.   

It's just faster and easier for me this way, takes less gear, and is more portable.  I haven't really had a proper computer setup for audio editing for the last several year, my house is all torn up and half-packed, and other life-things keep following the path of least resistance.  Ironically I suspect moving to the F8 because I wanted easier access to 8 recording channels will now push me to getting both a computer editing setup and a portable surround playback setup going again.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<<

Offline IronFilm

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Re: Zoom F8 Recorder Part 3
« Reply #164 on: January 14, 2019, 12:27:03 AM »
I'm picking up an F8 this weekend and looking forward to giving it a go.  I'm completely satisfied with the Tascam DR-680Mk2, yet want more than 6 preamp inputs with phantom.  Have recently been using a Roland R-88 on temporary loan, which will make for another point of comparison.  The R-88 is a very nice recorder, but large, heavy, and a generation or two older.

I plan to update firmware immediately if not up to the latest release, and search the thread for powering info.

I went from a DR680mk1 (with a Sound Devices 552 front end) to a Zoom F8n (stopping along the way to use a F4 beforehand) and the improvement was hugely massive leap forward over the older DR680! Like night and day.

 

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